Is the religious liberty of pro-SSM churches infringed by banning civil same-sex marriage?

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Why sbod your eligious group be able to dictate its blelief of marriage upon society yet my group be silenced on the issue of marriage equality?
If your ecclesiastical community chooses to perform same-sex “weddings”, there is no law stopping you. Your ministers won’t be subject to fines for “hate speech” for preaching your beliefs. What is happening is that - in direct violation of our beliefs - we are being forced to see these as true and legal marriages. Catholic bishops have already been brought up on charges and incurred thousands of dollars in legal fees because simply stating the belief of the Church was considered “hate speech”.

Before you bring up those who are divorced and remarried, how can someone know that unless they are told?
 
Why sbod your eligious group be able to dictate its blelief of marriage upon society yet my group be silenced on the issue of marriage equality?
Your denomination did not always bless same sex unions. It was only in 2007 since many Quakers, not all, capitulated to pressure departing from Scripture and eternal truth. There are Quakers to this day who view that homosexuality is sinfully deviant and contrary to God’s intentions for sexual expression.

Those from your religious group that now support same sex marriage are not silenced. Not in the public square and not in the market of ideas. Just as Catholics should be left free to speak against a new social experiment believed to imperil individual souls and going against the common good.

In fact, you freely spout views and beliefs contrary to Catholic view and beliefs in this very forum, which is Catholic, in case you are forgetting.

As for your point, the state may not impose religion, but must guarantee religious freedom and harmony between the followers of different religions. For her part, the Catholic Church, in social expression of Christian faith, has a proper independence and is structured on the basis of her faith as a community which the state must recognize.
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We must also remind SSM advocates that the Catholic Church didn’t start this fight. It’s a fight that was picked with us by homosexual activists who suddenly out of thin air are calling us bigots for our beliefs about marriage. All we are doing is living and believing in marriage as it was naturally from the beginning of time. Children are the only reason why there would even need to be an institution called marriage. Marriage is a sacrament to Catholics, but it is also a biological reality that man + woman = child. I could easily see this reality as a child, long before I converted to Christianity. And it makes no sense that the same people who reject traditional marriage want their homosexual relationship to be called the same thing as what they reject.
 
Your denomination did not always bless same sex unions. It was only in 2007 since many Quakers, not all, capitulated to pressure departing from Scripture and eternal truth. There are Quakers to this day who view that homosexuality is sinfully deviant and contrary to God’s intentions for sexual expression.

Those from your religious group that now support same sex marriage are not silenced. Not in the public square and not in the market of ideas. Just as Catholics should be left free to speak against a new social experiment believed to imperil individual souls and going against the common good.

In fact, you freely spout views and beliefs contrary to Catholic view and beliefs in this very forum, which is Catholic, in case you are forgetting.

As for your point, the state may not impose religion, but must guarantee religious freedom and harmony between the followers of different religions. For her part, the Catholic Church, in social expression of Christian faith, has a proper independence and is structured on the basis of her faith as a community which the state must recognize.
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Actually Friends General Conference spoke toward the inclusion of of gay people as early as the 50,s. Yes the Evangelical Friends are still struggling with the issue. It may be another generation before Friends are united on this issue. Your ecclesial community will have a much more difficult time I think. But the growing number of Catholics who support marriage equality will have an effect on your communion as the next generation of Catholics will continue to deal with this social issue.

What your community will face in the very near future is the State stepping in and enforcing thee nondiscriminatory policies of those civil issues where religious beliefs of individuals do not get a pass based on religious beliefs that feel free to discriminate in the public arena. If your community wishes to participate in providing public services it will need to conform with civil law.

I do not see in the future where your faith community will be be required to amend it’s doctrines and practices, But in regard to civil matters the law will be required to be followed. If “hate speech” means stating and viewed as inciting violence against a protected minority you are probably correct, that would not be tolerated no more than yelling “fire!” In a crowded theater.

What you believe and practice in YOUR private devotional life in community is protected.
 
Actually Friends General Conference spoke toward the inclusion of of gay people as early as the 50,s. Yes the Evangelical Friends are still struggling with the issue. It may be another generation before Friends are united on this issue. Your ecclesial community will have a much more difficult time I think. But the growing number of Catholics who support marriage equality will have an effect on your communion as the next generation of Catholics will continue to deal with this social issue.
You can predict that Friends (Quakers) will be united on the pro-gay “marriage” one day. But no matter that some Catholics are in your camp on the issue of gay “marriage” according to polls, you can forget the idea that the Catholic Church will change the doctrine on homosexuality and position on gay “marriage.” It may be a leaner Church in the future, but so will other faiths who are and will remain united on the defense of true marriage. Remember that it is not just Catholics who do not accept pretend marriages being legalized to accommodate individual adult desires and entitlement to financial benefits without regard for the common good.
What your community will face in the very near future is the State stepping in and enforcing thee nondiscriminatory policies of those civil issues where religious beliefs of individuals do not get a pass based on religious beliefs that feel free to discriminate in the public arena. If your community wishes to participate in providing public services it will need to conform with civil law.
I do not see in the future where your faith community will be be required to amend it’s doctrines and practices, But in regard to civil matters the law will be required to be followed.
Well, duh. The Church is not in the business of law enforcement, but takes the position that she can influence and propose. You seem to have a problem with that.
If “hate speech” means stating and viewed as inciting violence against a protected minority you are probably correct, that would not be tolerated no more than yelling “fire!” In a crowded theater.
What you believe and practice in YOUR private devotional life in community is protected.
It is preposterous to liken expression of the belief on homosexuality and position on gay “marriage” as hate speech, which many pro-gays like to do. To suggest that such expression is like yelling “fire” in a crowded theater is beyond the pale.

Do tell us when or how in the course of civil exchange is a Catholic inciting violence by expressing that homosexual acts are wrong and homosexual marriage does not serve a social and common good. The CC does not have a lynch mob mentality. Catholic teaching is clear in that homosexuals as individuals are to be treated with compassion. I do have a family member, relatives and friends who are homosexual who have lived or are living the lifestyle; I don’t support gay “marriage” but I will never take the side of their oppressors or persecutors! Homosexuals living the lifestyle are in need of fraternal correction which they can freely accept or reject.

In the public square, and not just inside our churches, we are free to say and write about a deeply held belief. Whether lawmakers and judges listen is something else. Truth is not dependent on a popularity contest.

There is something very wrong and unjust about the view being lauded in advocating for gay “marriage” that there is no room in the public square for those who object to it based on religious views. It is wrong and unjust to drive away people with said belief from the stream of commerce, to find intolerable that people bring their religious views into the world of business and in the practice of their profession.

There is nothing wrong in teaching children not to bully a kid who is obese, has a large nose or terrible acne, wear uncool clothes, of skin coloring of a minority group, effeminate boys or masculine girls, or anyone with a homosexual orientation, etc. There is something very wrong and unjust when the right of parents over the education of their children in public schools are disregarded, parents who do not wish their children to be indoctrinated with the homosexualist philosophy.
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What about DOMA? That is federal law. It defines marriage as one man and one woman. First, as defined by Our Creator who gives us inalienable rights and also His natural law and as defined historically in pretty much all societies.

What is marriage for? It is to raise a family in the most ideal setting for the children that may result from it. Ideally, it is so that children can have a mother and father (hopefully their own) in a committed relationship to be able to grow and thrive in a loving household. To accomplish a complete picture, both parents are needed to look at and be role models. If I have no mother and I am a girl, how can I know what it is like to be a woman. If I have no father and I’m a girl, how can I know how to relate to a man and vice versa for the guys. That is why it is so important for parents to rise up to the task. This society has all but lost the ideal of marriage and family and all but made marriage meaningless with living together before marriage, having kids out of wedlock and no-fault divorce. “SSM” will only further water down and erode the meaning of marriage, the purpose it serves.

Then there’s the argument. What about the elderly or infertile couple? Whether elderly or infertile, complementary couples still can be open to life whether nature allows them to actually have children or not. Same sex can never naturally even be open to life.

Then there’s the argument. But even a nuclear family can have abuse, etc. That’s no role model. No, it’s not! I am speaking in broad terms for the purpose of defining marriage not individual family lives and why I said we all need to step up to the task.
 
Nobody has the right to violate God’s law by performing some ceremony that would be mortally sinful. This is speaking spiritually of course. Under the law I guess they would have that right if the law in their jurisdiction allows it. Nevertheless it would still be gravely sinful.
 
No. There is a difference between civil marriage and religious marriage.

Which is also the reason that legalizing same-sex marriage won’t infringe on the rights of Churches that oppose it.
 
No. There is a difference between civil marriage and religious marriage.

Which is also the reason that legalizing same-sex marriage won’t infringe on the rights of Churches that oppose it.
Until their teachings are declared to be “hate speech” and their ministers are prosecuted for proclaiming that teaching.
 
@ Kevin B - I can definitely see a time when in order for the Church to be able to be licensed in the State, you will have to agree not to “discriminate” and must do SSM.

Now what’s to stop all manner of marriages. I have already heard many people saying they are not opposed to polygamy. What if I want to marry my brother? (I don’t have one this is just for argument’s sake.) Who are you to push your set of morals on to me?

They say, “No this won’t happen.” Really? Because when I was a girl, I had never even heard of the conccept of gay marriage.
 
@ Kevin B - I can definitely see a time when in order for the Church to be able to be licensed in the State, you will have to agree not to “discriminate” and must do SSM.

Now what’s to stop all manner of marriages. I have already heard many people saying they are not opposed to polygamy. What if I want to marry my brother? (I don’t have one this is just for argument’s sake.) Who are you to push your set of morals on to me?

They say, “No this won’t happen.” Really? Because when I was a girl, I had never even heard of the conccept of gay marriage.
Who cares if a priest has a license to perform civil marriages? They are utterly unimportant. What’s important is that a priest be able to perform a marriage in the eyes of God, which he does not need a license to do! The church’s focus on the tax breaks and other benefits of civil marriage just lose the actual importance of the sacrament.
Until their teachings are declared to be “hate speech” and their ministers are prosecuted for proclaiming that teaching.
Maybe it will be ruled hate speech. However, unlike in many European countries, hate speech is legal in the U.S. because of the first amendment. The Supreme Court has already ruled that even hate speech is protected. Look at the westboro Baptist Church.

Of course, there is the possibility that a constitutional amendment could be passed banning hate speech, but we’ll cross that bridge if and when we come to it.
 
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