Is the Rosary genuine?

[pablope]

Wow! Thanks for posting this. I didn’t know the rosary has so much power!

If you read this…you will know why…catholicnewsagency.com/news/romes-exorcist-finding-bl.-john-paul-ii-effective-against-satan/

And Mary too, she’s at the level of Jesus! No - maybe greater than Jesus, because Jesus always say He does the will of the Father.

 

[onlyvoice]

No…that is not what the CC teaches, nor what Catholics believe…it is a product of misunderstanding and misinformation and misconception that has been passed by anti-Catholic polemics…and picked up as true by a lot of Protestants who have never encountered what Catholics actually believe and what the CC actually teaches.

And it is also a result of the understanding of what prayer is to a catholic and to a protestant.

Sorry, but that was MY understanding reading those supposed claims from Mary. I didn’t get that from other people’s views. and BTW, I’m not Protestant.

I do not think these were the actual words…but were written down by someone…am not sure of the history of these promises. In any regard, these are private revelation and one is free to believe them or not.

You mean I can be a Catholic and do not have to believe in any of those promises?

 

[Luvtosew]

I’ve also heard that the CC teach Mary’s hymen was not broken at childbirth. Is this true?

1. The Church Fathers connect it with Isaiah 66:7 and also Mary’s preservation from sin & death:
   “As the Son has been given to us without a father, so the Child has been born without a birth. **As the Virgin herself
   did not know how the body that received divinity was formed in her own body, so neither did she notice the birth.**Even the prophet Isaiah affirms that her giving birth was without pain, when he says: ‘Before the pangs of birth
   arrived, a male child came forth and was born’

the above is stating her hymen was not broke, this is a Church teaching and if so it contradicts the woman in Rev 12 is Mary, as that woman had pain but Mary did not.

 

[onlyvoice]

1. The Church Fathers connect it with Isaiah 66:7 and also Mary’s preservation from sin & death:
   “As the Son has been given to us without a father, so the Child has been born without a birth. **As the Virgin herself
   did not know how the body that received divinity was formed in her own body, so neither did she notice the birth.**Even the prophet Isaiah affirms that her giving birth was without pain, when he says: ‘Before the pangs of birth
   arrived, a male child came forth and was born’

the above is stating her hymen was not broke, this is a Church teaching and if so it contradicts the woman in Rev 12 is Mary, as that woman had pain but Mary did not.

Thank you. And that’s a very good point you made. I hope someone can explain the contradiction.

 

[Linda_Marie]

Wow! Thanks for posting this. I didn’t know the rosary has so much power! And Mary too, she’s at the level of Jesus! No - maybe greater than Jesus, because Jesus always say He does the will of the Father. So, we serve her if we recite the rosary? These are all new to me. By the way, how did you know Mary made all these claims? I’ve not seen anyone here at CAF protesting, so this must all be true. Wow!

The Hail Mary is a scriptural prayer, combining the salutation of the Archangel Gabriel to Mary at the Annunciation - Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. - and Elizabeth’s greeting at the Visitation -Luke 1:And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? Elizabeth calls Mary the mother of God when she says, ‘the mother of my Lord’. The rest is asking her to pray for us.

All power that Mary has comes from God. In no way is she above God but you cannot deny that Grace entered the world through Mary when she bore Jesus in her womb. Mary leads us to Jesus just as she brought Jesus to us in giving Him birth. Her help is very powerful indeed, seeing how close she is to God; daughter of the Father, spouse of the Holy Spirit and mother of the Son.

The promises of the rosary come from a private revelation given to St. Dominic in which Mary appeared to him and spoke to him. As a private revelation, we are free to believe the promises or not. Either way, the spiritual benefits of reciting the rosary are great.

We read that at the time when he was preaching to the Albigenses, St. Dominic at first obtained but scanty success: and that one day, complaining of this in pious prayer to our Blessed Lady, she deigned to reply to him, saying:‘Wonder not that you have obtained so little fruit by your labors, you have spent them on barren soil, not yet watered with the dew of Divine grace. When God willed to renew the face of the earth, He began by sending down on it the fertilizing rain of the Angelic Salutation. Therefore preach my Psalter composed of 150 Angelic Salutations and 15 Our Fathers, and you will obtain an abundant harvest.’

The place of the revelation was the church of Prouille and the time was 1208. The claim of place and time are most strongly supported by the tradition of the Dominican Order. Pope Leo XIII affirmed over and over the Dominican origin of the Rosary and in a letter to the Bishop of Carcassone (1889), he accepts the tradition of Prouille as the place where the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to St. Dominic, revealing this devotion. The tradition that Mary first revealed the Rosary devotion to St. Dominic is supported by 13 popes.

St. Dominic went into the villages of the heretics, gathered the people, and preached to them the mysteries of salvation - the Incarnation, the Redemption, Eternal Life. As the Holy Virgin had taught him to do, he distinguished the different kinds of mysteries and after each short instruction he had ten Hail Marys recited. St. Dominic found great success in this new devotion, bringing about the conversion of the Albigensians.

The catechism on private revelation
67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

 

[Linda_Marie]

1. The Church Fathers connect it with Isaiah 66:7 and also Mary’s preservation from sin & death:
   “As the Son has been given to us without a father, so the Child has been born without a birth. **As the Virgin herself
   did not know how the body that received divinity was formed in her own body, so neither did she notice the birth.**Even the prophet Isaiah affirms that her giving birth was without pain, when he says: ‘Before the pangs of birth
   arrived, a male child came forth and was born’

the above is stating her hymen was not broke, this is a Church teaching and if so it contradicts the woman in Rev 12 is Mary, as that woman had pain but Mary did not.

Thank you. And that’s a very good point you made. I hope someone can explain the contradiction.

This thread is about the rosary. You should start a new thread if you wish to discuss the Perpetual Virginity of Mary.
Mary’s Perpetual Virginity

 

[pablope]

Sorry, but that was MY understanding reading those supposed claims from Mary. I didn’t get that from other people’s views. and BTW, I’m not Protestant.

I apologize for the mistake…your question sounded “protestanty”…

Please keep in mind…whatever those promises are…they are granted by God through the Virgin Mary…Mary depends on God’s divine will and providence.

You mean I can be a Catholic and do not have to believe in any of those promises?

 

[Crumpy]

I don’t think we need to worry about any protestant criticisms of the rosary, to begin with.
Let’s start by not worrying about that.

The popes have written encyclicals about devotion to Mary, encouraging the recitation of the rosary.

I think the best devotional to praying the rosary would be to look at pictures that correspond to the mysteries that we are praying. There is some great artwork depicting the mysteries of the rosary.

But, I cannot recommend any particular prayer book at this time. Perhaps someone can help us with books or online resources for saying the rosary. I haven’t checked youtube yet.

There’s the divine office which is the official daily prayer of the church, which lay Catholics are encouraged to pray.

There are the psalms, in particular, which the Church encourages us to use, as well. The psalms themselves provide “canned” prayers in the same way that saying the rosary might be said to be “canned” or even vain repetition. There’s poetic repetition in the psalms as well – see Ps 136 (as I recall).

 

[onlyvoice]

I apologize for the mistake…your question sounded “protestanty”…

Please keep in mind…whatever those promises are…they are granted by God through the Virgin Mary…Mary depends on God’s divine will and providence.

So, what you are saying is that we can be certain God granted some promises to Mary, but that we cannot be certain what those promises are? And that as far as the promises involving the rosary (those listed by the OP), that these could just be all lies?

 

[pablope]

So, what you are saying is that we can be certain God granted some promises to Mary, but that we cannot be certain what those promises are? And that as far as the promises involving the rosary (those listed by the OP), that these could just be all lies?

Let me put it this way…whatever the promises are…Mary will bring those to God…and it is up to God to grant them or not…Mary, and any saint for that matter, intercedes…prays for us too…it is God who grants…according to God’s will.

And we do not make a judgement of whether those promises are lies or not…that is private revelation…

I think you should look at those promises…in the realm of…if you pray the rosary…what harm would that bring? Would it bring you closer to God? Would you find favor with God?

I pray the rosary, not because of those promises…but because it allows me to meditate on the life of Christ…and makes me draw closer to her Son…because of love for the Lord.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

I mean, I’m a little curious. I’m trying to find Christ, and does this seem Holy and authentic? not at all contradicting scriptures?

1. Whoever shall faithfully serve me by the recitation of the Rosary shall receive signal graces.
2. I promise my special protection and the greatest graces to all those who shall recite the Rosary.
3. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against Hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.
4. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities and will lead them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
5. The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.
6. Whoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its sacred mysteries, shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just, he shall remain in the grace of God and become worthy of eternal life.
7. Whoever shall have a true devotion for the Rosary shall not die without the Sacraments of the Church.
8. Those who are faithful to recite the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces; at the moment of death, they shall participate in the merits of the saints in Paradise.
9. I shall deliver from Purgatory those who have been devoted to the Rosary.
   (I mean, this one gets me thinking…)
10. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.
11. You shall obtain all you ask of me by the recitation of the Rosary.
12. All those who propagate the Holy Rosary shall be aided by me in their necessities.
13. I have obtained from my Divine Son that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors the entire Celestial Court during their life and at the hour of death.
14. All who recite the Rosary are my sons, and brothers of my only Son, Jesus Christ.
15. Devotion to my Rosary is a great sign of predestination.

Don’t try to look to prove or disprove exalted promises. Just pray the rosary. Prayer is a righteous act. A righteous man prays the rosary. The unrighteous pour out filth from their mouth from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to sleep. The righteous man prays all day long. He prays the rosary, the hours, the litanies, the novenas, the scriptures…His mouth is full of grace and truth. Pray the rosary because it is righteous to do so. Stop questioning its validity.

 

[Linda_Marie]

So, what you are saying is that we can be certain God granted some promises to Mary, but that we cannot be certain what those promises are? And that as far as the promises involving the rosary (those listed by the OP), that these could just be all lies?

Heaven is a Kingdom, not a democracy. The queen, the gebirah, is the mother of the king and has authority to act in the name of the king. She controls access to the king and advises him. Her intercession is much sought-after. Mary is the Gebirah of the Kingdom of Jesus and has power she can exercise in her own right. She can make promises and God will abide by them.

The Gebirah, the Queen Mother of the Kingdom of Judah, was an official position held by the mother of the Davidic kings. ***She was the most important and influential woman in the royal court and the king’s chief councilor. *** The Hebrew word gebirah is found 15 times in the Old Testament and can be translated as “Queen Mother,” or “Great Lady” [Genesis 16:4, 8, 9, 1 Kings 11:19 (used for the Egyptian Queen Mother); 15:13; 2 Kings 5:3; 10:13; 2 Chronicles 15:16; Psalm 123:2; Proverbs 30:23; Isaiah 24:2; 47:5, 7; Jeremiah 13:18; 29:2]. In Sacred Scripture the mother of the Davidic king is listed along with her son in the books of 1 & 2 Kings and 1 & 2 Chronicles when he assumes the throne. The only queen mother not listed are those of King Jehoram, who married wicked Athaliah, daughter of Ahab and Jezebel of Israel [2 Kings 8:17-18]; King Ahaz [2 Kings 16:2-3]; and King Asa [1 Kings 15:10]. In the case of Jehoram and Ahaz, their mothers may have died prior to their sons assuming the throne of David, and in the case of Asa, his grandmother is named as the Gebirah, his mother having died or perhaps his grandmother, the former Gebirah, did not relinquish her power and authority upon the succession of her grandson. ***Scripture indicates that the Gebirah assumed a throne alongside her son [see 1 Kings 2:19] and exercised her role as counselor [2 Chronicles 22:3] and intercessor to the king ***[1 Kings 2:13-21]. In times of conquest, both the king and his mother represented royal power [2 Kings 24:12]. The Gebirah was clearly the most important woman in the Kingdom of Judah; a king had many wives, but only one mother. The Gebirah of the eternal Davidic Kingdom of Jesus Christ is Mary of Nazareth. She appears in this role in Revelation 12:1.

We can believe that Mary spoke to St. Dominic and made those promises to him or we can believe that Mary never spoke to him. You may dismiss the promises as figments of a troubled mind and remain a Catholic in good standing. This is not the same as saying that the promises are lies.

This private revelation has been approved by the Church. The Church has stated, by the power of the Holy Spirit guiding Her, that this revelation has been discerned and contains nothing contrary to the public revelation of Jesus. It is promoted as being worthy of belief.

The Rosary is of great spiritual benefit to those who pray it, promises or no promises.

 

[onlyvoice]

Heaven is a Kingdom, not a democracy. The queen, the gebirah, is the mother of the king and has authority to act in the name of the king. She controls access to the king and advises him. Her intercession is much sought-after. Mary is the Gebirah of the Kingdom of Jesus and has power she can exercise in her own right. She can make promises and God will abide by them.

Looking at the list the OP made, what you are saying is that Mary can make those promises herself without consulting the King - that she is completely within her rights in making those promises?

We can believe that Mary spoke to St. Dominic and made those promises to him or we can believe that Mary never spoke to him. You may dismiss the promises as figments of a troubled mind and remain a Catholic in good standing. This is not the same as saying that the promises are lies.

This private revelation has been approved by the Church. The Church has stated, by the power of the Holy Spirit guiding Her, that this revelation has been discerned and contains nothing contrary to the public revelation of Jesus. It is promoted as being worthy of belief.

The Rosary is of great spiritual benefit to those who pray it, promises or no promises.

That’s confusing. IF the church, as you said, having been guided by the HS, had found this private revelation to be authentic, why could it still be possible that this is something that is not really true because it may have come from a troubled mind?

 

[LilyM]

Looking at the list the OP made, what you are saying is that Mary can make those promises herself without consulting the King - that she is completely within her rights in making those promises?

Remember that Mary, being in heaven, is perfect, since nothing imperfect can enter. Likewise all the heavenly Saints.

Being that they are perfect, then their minds, hearts and wills are perfectly united to God. So there is not the slightest chance of their thinking, saying or doing anything that is not perfectly in accord with God’s will.

And there is not the slightest chance that they will in any way misuse any power that He chooses to give them. So if Mary IS allowed freedom to act independently (and why would she not be, those in heaven are neither slaves nor robots), she will in no way do other than what God wills to be done. This includes her intercessions as well as any other favors it may be in her power to bestow.

That’s confusing. IF the church, as you said, having been guided by the HS, had found this private revelation to be authentic, why could it still be possible that this is something that is not really true because it may have come from a troubled mind?

This is an instance of humility. The Church does not pretend to know absolutely everything there is to know about God, for such complete knowledge is impossible for even the most Spirit-guided person or group of people. As St Paul says, for the time being we must see through a glass darkly.

However, there are things that it does know beyond a shadow of a doubt. And these take precedence over any private vision or revelation.

As far as any private revelation goes, all the Church can do is scrutinise them and then declare that the messages of some of these private revelations in no way contradict the revealed and certain aspects of our faith. And that being the case, the faithful are permitted, without being required, to believe them.

Sometimes after examination it does the opposite - it finds that there are aspects of some so-called revelations that do contradict revealed faith, and it warns the faithful against those.

In both cases its pronouncements about the revelations do not have the force of eternal and binding-for-all-times dogma. Although in obedience we should comply by avoiding that of which our spiritual fathers disapprove.

In one case, that of St Faustina Kowalska, a grave mistake was made due (I think) to poor translation of her writings. The Church hierarchy was against them for a time but then when John Paul II, a native of Faustina’s own country, became Pope matters were rectified.

 

[onlyvoice]

Remember that Mary, being in heaven, is perfect, since nothing imperfect can enter. Likewise all the heavenly Saints.

Being that they are perfect, then their minds, hearts and wills are perfectly united to God. So there is not the slightest chance of their thinking, saying or doing anything that is not perfectly in accord with God’s will.

And there is not the slightest chance that they will in any way misuse any power that He chooses to give them. So if Mary IS allowed freedom to act independently (and why would she not be, those in heaven are neither slaves nor robots), she will in no way do other than what God wills to be done. This includes her intercessions as well as any other favors it may be in her power to bestow.

Ok, thanks.

This is an instance of humility. The Church does not pretend to know absolutely everything there is to know about God, for such complete knowledge is impossible for even the most Spirit-guided person or group of people. As St Paul says, for the time being we must see through a glass darkly.

So, what did Christ mean when He said when “the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth” (John 16:13)? Did Christ mean what He said?

Could you please post the chapter and verse of St Paul’s statement?

However, there are things that it does know beyond a shadow of a doubt. And these take precedence over any private vision or revelation.

I would presume that these are some of the things the CC knows beyond a shadow of a doubt to be true?

1. God is a Trinity
2. The Assumption of Mary
3. The Immaculate Conception

If the CC was guided by the HS to the truth on these things, why not on other things? But how could it know it could be wrong on the others but not on these three?

As far as any private revelation goes, all the Church can do is scrutinise them and then declare that the messages of some of these private revelations in no way contradict the revealed and certain aspects of our faith. And that being the case, the faithful are permitted, without being required, to believe them.

Sometimes after examination it does the opposite - it finds that there are aspects of some so-called revelations that do contradict revealed faith, and it warns the faithful against those.

In both cases its pronouncements about the revelations do not have the force of eternal and binding-for-all-times dogma. Although in obedience we should comply by avoiding that of which our spiritual fathers disapprove.

In one case, that of St Faustina Kowalska, a grave mistake was made due (I think) to poor translation of her writings. The Church hierarchy was against them for a time but then when John Paul II, a native of Faustina’s own country, became Pope matters were rectified.

Could you please list down all the other doctrines the CC declared as having the force of eternal dogma – those which cannot change over time? I know this is off topic so I won’t make any follow-up query to your answer.

Thank you.

 

[Michael_Francis]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
***4 posts have been removed as off topic.
Please remain on topic, which is the Rosary.
Other Marian points of interest should be addressed in their own thread as per the Forum Rules *** .

 

[Linda_Marie]

There is a difference between public revelation and private revelation.
Public Revelation and private revelations - their theological status

The teaching of the Church distinguishes between “public Revelation” and “private revelations”. The two realities differ not only in degree but also in essence.

The term “public Revelation” refers to the revealing action of God directed to humanity as a whole and which finds its literary expression in the two parts of the Bible: the Old and New Testaments.
<…>
Because the single Revelation of God addressed to all peoples comes to completion with Christ and the witness borne to him in the books of the New Testament, the Church is tied to this unique event of sacred history and to the word of the Bible, which guarantees and interprets it. But this does not mean that the Church can now look only to the past and that she is condemned to sterile repetition.

<…>

1. The authority of private revelations is essentially different from that of the definitive public Revelation. The latter demands faith; in it in fact God himself speaks to us through human words and the mediation of the living community of the Church. Faith in God and in his word is different from any other human faith, trust or opinion. The certainty that it is God who is speaking gives me the assurance that I am in touch with truth itself. It gives me a certitude which is beyond verification by any human way of knowing. It is the certitude upon which I build my life and to which I entrust myself in dying.
2. Private revelation is a help to this faith, and shows its credibility precisely by leading me back to the definitive public Revelation. In this regard, Cardinal Prospero Lambertini, the future Pope Benedict XIV, says in his classic treatise, which later became normative for beatifications and canonizations: “An assent of Catholic faith is not due to revelations approved in this way; it is not even possible. These revelations seek rather an assent of human faith in keeping with the requirements of prudence, which puts them before us as probable and credible to piety”.

Could you please post the chapter and verse of St Paul’s statement?

King James Bible
1st Corinthians13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I would presume that these are some of the things the CC knows beyond a shadow of a doubt to be true?

1. God is a Trinity
2. The Assumption of Mary
3. The Immaculate Conception

If the CC was guided by the HS to the truth on these things, why not on other things? But how could it know it could be wrong on the others but not on these three?

Private revelation can be subect to error. The person receiving it could have misunderstood. The person writing it down could have done so inaccurately. etc. Only the writings declared Scripture have the promise of being inerrant.

The Trinity, The Assumption and the Immaculate Conception have been declared de fide by councils of the Church. They had always been part of Sacred Tradition and had been taught by the Church from the very beginning. They were declared de fide by the Pope and the Councils speaking with infallible authority because the Truth of these Teachings had been threatened by the emergence of heresies. The faithful were being led astray and the Church had to Speak.

Any dogma is an infallible doctrine, divinely & formally revealed by God** as a necessary truth for salvation.**
<…>
DE FIDE is the highest level of theological/doctrinal truth. They are INFALLIBLE statements by their very nature, like the Holy Trinity, The Real Presence, etc.

Next, are VERITATES CATHOLICAE (catholic truths) like the existence of God which can be known through reason alone.

Finally, there are four types of THEOLOGICAL OPINIONS:

1. SENTENTIA FIDEI PROXIMA (proximate to the Faith) like the Trinity can be known only through Revelation.

1. SENTENTIA CERTA (theologically certain) like Monogenism, i.e., that the human race came from one set of parents.

1. SENTENTIA COMMUNIA (common teaching) like the Church’s prohibition & proscription of artificial contraception.

1. SENTENTIA PROBABILIS (probable teaching) like the premise that the Virgin Mary died before being Assumed into Heaven.

The private revelation of the Rosary is not a necessary truth for salvation so it does not reach the level of requiring an infallible declaration. The Church has found it to be spiritually profitable for hundreds of years but your salvation does not depend on it. That is why you are free not to believe, not because they may be wrong.

Mary’s rosary promises do not require you to believe anything contrary to the faith, nor do they say that you need them to be saved. They do, however, promise to help you attain that salvation.

Some of us trudge up the stairway to heaven, others take advantage of Mary’s offer of an elevator.