Is the Russian Orthodox Church doing anything about this? (Protestant persecution)

[Proton]

LOL

I live in Europe. Never been to the US. We don’t call them heretics because it’s just not good to tell evil things. I have to admit tho, that i am a convert because i no longer agreed with Protestant theology, and i have been struggling to choose between RC and OC.

Which European country?

Calling someone heretic is not an evil thing, it is not even an insult. It is term for those who disagree with Church teachings. We are heretics to their denomination.

And be free to chose RC over OC. OC loses purpose if it stops calling others heretics, accepts anyone’s baptism and acts all liberal.

 

[Jon_Mallory]

As an Orthodox, i watched this and i have really, really tried to feel empathy for these Protestants, but their theology is just too wrong for me to feel empathy for their cause.

LOL

Is this response in line with the second greatest Commandment of Christ?

 

[Vanez]

Which European country?

Calling someone heretic is not an evil thing, it is not even an insult. It is term for those who disagree with Church teachings. We are heretics to their denomination.

Yeah i am aware of other Christians calling us heretics. I’m afraid of calling heretics. i live with my Catholic dad and Protestant mom. It’s kind of messy sometime and what I share to my mom often hurts her

I live in Netherlands.

 

[Contarini]

Dronald, I’m curious about your question, tho…

If Russian Orthodox Church is doing anything about this >>> what did you mean, actually? That the Church is responsible of Protestant persecution? If yes, are you going to:

1. Mock Orthodox Christians?
2. Going to Ukraine to help Protestants there?

If you know who’s responsible (the Church or the government), what are you going to do, really?

I have no idea what these questions are supposed to mean.

The current Russian regime–and apparently its puppet in Eastern Ukraine as well–poses as the defender of Orthodoxy and has the support of the Orthodox hierarchy. If the Orthodox hierarchy condemned these actions, or didn’t at least tacitly encourage them, they wouldn’t be happening.

Edwin

 

[Proton]

Yeah i am aware of other Christians calling us heretics. I’m afraid of calling heretics. i live with my Catholic dad and Protestant mom. It’s kind of messy sometime and what I share to my mom often hurts her

I live in Netherlands.

Which jurisdiction?

Of course you shouldn’t go around and keep calling random People heretics, that’s what lunatics do. But when you enter serious theological debate, with serious counterpart, then sometimes you shouldn’t avoid calling wrong teachings heretical.

 

[Vanez]

I have no idea what these questions are supposed to mean.

The current Russian regime–and apparently its puppet in Eastern Ukraine as well–poses as the defender of Orthodoxy and has the support of the Orthodox hierarchy. If the Orthodox hierarchy condemned these actions, or didn’t at least tacitly encourage them, they wouldn’t be happening.

Edwin

Hey, can you tell me more?

First, i am sorry if my previous comment was rude, i was not aware of my rudeness because of my curiousity.

I really got the idea that the OC itself is scared of the government.

So far, i have been donating money of ukraine and sending clothes to romania , both via a Protestant church near by my house, but i did not know that the donation for ukraine is for those Protestants in ukraine who dont even have church. I only knew that it’s for the needy.

 

[Vanez]

Which jurisdiction?

Of course you shouldn’t go around and keep calling random People heretics, that’s what lunatics do. But when you enter serious theological debate, with serious counterpart, then sometimes you shouldn’t avoid calling wrong teachings heretical.

Partriarch of Moscow. But the liturgy is spoken in Dutch, and in feast days it’s also spoken in Russian and Greeks because the people who attend are not only Russians, there are people from Serbia, Vietnam, Dutch people, Euritreans who have converted to the EO, even Indonesians.

I often avoid debate. I have never been into a heavy debate about religion.

 

[Rohzek]

Since when Protestants are brothers of the Orthodox Church? They come, spread heresy and take People away from the Eucharist. They shouldn’t be harmed or their rights should be taken away of course, but we shouldn’t lie each other and call them brothers.
They should go to Iran, Saudi Arabia or place like that and spread their teachings there, not in Russia, which has been baptized long before their rebellion against Apostles existed.
And let’s remind ourselves that emperors of Rome and Constantinople that we celebrate as saints used to persecute heretics when Ecumenical Council condemns them. Great saints of Ecumenical Councils were never eager to call heretics - brothers.

As much as I would hate to see a decline in Orthodox numbers, I completely disagree with you. “Take People away from the Eucharist,” you say. What hogwash. The people who leave the Orthodox Church due to these ministers, leave by their own choice. They made up their mind.

I actually understand Protestant and others’ ethos and wants whereby they seek to convert fellow Christians to their denomination. They believe that their denomination is closest to God. Is this not what the Orthodox Church believes of itself?

Instead of crying about how protestants are coming into the great backward “Soviet” Russia, its spheres of influence, and treading all over the jurisdiction of the “precious” Patriarch of Moscow (who is nothing more than a puppet of the government), I suggest you and the rest of us rise to the challenge. We should meet their ministries with our own ministries. We should not use force. After all, the crown of thorns is not given to those who are forced to be good, but who are good by their own free volition. And if some people walk away or we ultimately fail, then so be it. Some will, some won’t - so what?

 

[Adamski]

I think we should spread the gospel with love and truth but I don’t believe in separation of church and state as we can see what it really leads to is the state telling the church what to do. I do stand with Russia in having the orthodox being the church sponsored by the state and wish we would see more catholic countries do the same; Malta and Costa Rica do already

 

[Proton]

As much as I would hate to see a decline in Orthodox numbers, I completely disagree with you. “Take People away from the Eucharist,” you say. What hogwash. The people who leave the Orthodox Church due to these ministers, leave by their own choice. They made up their mind.

I actually understand Protestant and others’ ethos and wants whereby they seek to convert fellow Christians to their denomination. They believe that their denomination is closest to God. Is this not what the Orthodox Church believes of itself?

Instead of crying about how protestants are coming into the great backward “Soviet” Russia, its spheres of influence, and treading all over the jurisdiction of the “precious” Patriarch of Moscow (who is nothing more than a puppet of the government), I suggest you and the rest of us rise to the challenge. We should meet their ministries with our own ministries. We should not use force. After all, the crown of thorns is not given to those who are forced to be good, but who are good by their own free volition. And if some people walk away or we ultimately fail, then so be it. Some will, some won’t - so what?

Well if Protestants come to Orthodox country, with Orthodox majority and Orthodox government, they should be prepared for some disadvantage. They should go to Saudi Arabia and teach there.

And i don’t see why Patriarch of Moscow is puppet of government. Patriarch should ally with anti-Russian decadent west against Putin’s government that works together with the Church on promoting morality and Russian national interest?
Russian Amblem is double-headed eagle, it represents government and Church working together. It used to represent Emperor and Patriarch, came from the Byzantine tradition.

 

[Adamski]

I’d gladly stand with my Protestant friends, FWIW.

I gladly stand with the orthodox I see this as western propaganda

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Thread pruned and re-booted.
Proceed.

 

[Rohzek]

I think we should spread the gospel with love and truth but I don’t believe in separation of church and state as we can see what it really leads to is the state telling the church what to do. I do stand with Russia in having the orthodox being the church sponsored by the state and wish we would see more catholic countries do the same; Malta and Costa Rica do already

This is absolutely false. How can you possibly support state and church colluding with one another? Let’s bust up a few myths about the glories of Church and State in Russia. I’ll start with the present circumstances in Russia, and then go on to more about the history of it.

1.) Patriarch Kirill of Moscow sanctions almost every Russian government policy. He’s a rubber stamp for Putin. There is a reason why a certain rockband (these forums censor part of its name) explicitly targeted Kirill for his unwavering support for Putin. Kirill’s harsh and hyperbolic, to say the least, condemnation of the aforementioned band reveals how much he, as a leader of an autocephalous church, is nothing more than a tool for the Russian government. He claimed their act of protest to be the work of the devil, and that they should be severely punished for it. So much for free speech. Putin doesn’t care about Orthodoxy. He is merely using the church to suit his own political goals. The Soviet Union did the same thing, especially at its lowpoint in World War II. If it means anything, and it should, the monks of Mount Athos monastery have openly condemned Kirill and those under him as criminals and mere servants of Vladimir Putin. They have declared Kirill and them as anathema.

2.) As I said above, this whole narrative about the “the West needs the government to adopt and sponsor an official religion because the culture has declined” is completely false. Humanity is just as good and depraved today as it was 3000 years ago.

2.5) I’m proud of my Western culture with its separation of church and state despite all its faults. It spawned the Enlightenment, separation of church and state, and most importantly analytic philosophy. And while the West has plenty of flaws, don’t be so confident in any model that endorses church and state intertwining. The Russian Empire specifically with the approval of the Russian Orthodox Church, initiated pogroms against the Jews on a regular basis before the rise of Hitler. Let’s not forget about Rasputin either, the influential Russian monk known for his scandalous behavior, who the monarchy endorsed. During World War I, the Russian government spent tons of money on the Russian Orthodox Church, while millions starved, unable to feed themselves.

The supposed benefits of conjoining church and state are completely overstated, if not false.

 

[boar2roar]

IIRC, Baptists and Mennonites have been in the area since the 1850’s, so I wouldn’t assume this is a case of trying to “counter it early”.

By early I didn’t mean a time frame exactly I meant before they become a significant part of the population which I don’t think they are yet but they are increasing.

 

[AbideWithMe]

By early I didn’t mean a time frame exactly

Okay.

 

[Adamski]

This is absolutely false. How can you possibly support state and church colluding with one another? Let’s bust up a few myths about the glories of Church and State in Russia. I’ll start with the present circumstances in Russia, and then go on to more about the history of it.

1.) Patriarch Kirill of Moscow sanctions almost every Russian government policy. He’s a rubber stamp for Putin. There is a reason why a certain rockband (these forums censor part of its name) explicitly targeted Kirill for his unwavering support for Putin. Kirill’s harsh and hyperbolic, to say the least, condemnation of the aforementioned band reveals how much he, as a leader of an autocephalous church, is nothing more than a tool for the Russian government. He claimed their act of protest to be the work of the devil, and that they should be severely punished for it. So much for free speech. Putin doesn’t care about Orthodoxy. He is merely using the church to suit his own political goals. The Soviet Union did the same thing, especially at its lowpoint in World War II. If it means anything, and it should, the monks of Mount Athos monastery have openly condemned Kirill and those under him as criminals and mere servants of Vladimir Putin. They have declared Kirill and them as anathema.

2.) As I said above, this whole narrative about the “the West needs the government to adopt and sponsor an official religion because the culture has declined” is completely false. Humanity is just as good and depraved today as it was 3000 years ago.

2.5) I’m proud of my Western culture with its separation of church and state despite all its faults. It spawned the Enlightenment, separation of church and state, and most importantly analytic philosophy. And while the West has plenty of flaws, don’t be so confident in any model that endorses church and state intertwining. The Russian Empire specifically with the approval of the Russian Orthodox Church, initiated pogroms against the Jews on a regular basis before the rise of Hitler. Let’s not forget about Rasputin either, the influential Russian monk known for his scandalous behavior, who the monarchy endorsed. During World War I, the Russian government spent tons of money on the Russian Orthodox Church, while millions starved, unable to feed themselves.

The supposed benefits of conjoining church and state are completely overstated, if not false.

Protestantism leads to Unitarianism which leads to humanism which leads to pluralism which leads to secularism which leads to communism. Even 100 years ago we could see the good fruits of Protestantism but they have come to fullfillment as the video states with moral corruption

Even Putin which is completely corrupt is some what acountable to Christ, he hold secularism and Islam at bay while Obama and his cronies embrace the fall of Jesus and even promote it. Russia has seen how bad it is to live a society without Jesus we haven’t

 

[Jon_Mallory]

Protestantism leads to Unitarianism which leads to humanism which leads to pluralism which leads to secularism which leads to communism. Even 100 years ago we could see the good fruits of Protestantism but they have come to fullfillment as the video states with moral corruption

Even Putin which is completely corrupt is some what acountable to Christ, he hold secularism and Islam at bay while Obama and his cronies embrace the fall of Jesus and even promote it. Russia has seen how bad it is to live a society without Jesus we haven’t

Can you explain the logical progression of Protestantism–>unitarianism–>pluralism–>communism? I think many Protestants would object that this is a slippery slope fallacy and that Protestantism actually leads to capitalism.

 

[Adamski]

Can you explain the logical progression of Protestantism–>unitarianism–>pluralism–>communism? I think many Protestants would object that this is a slippery slope fallacy and that Protestantism actually leads to capitalism.

The christian God is the God of order while the idea that sola scriptora in essence makes all men a Demi God of the scriptures denying history, reason and logic leading to 38,000 different groups believing different things while orthodoxy and catholism is only divided by authority

 

[benjohnson]

The christian God is the God of order while the idea that sola scriptora in essence makes all men a Demi God…

I’ll leave this quote form Soren Kierkegaard about state churches:

“What Christianity needs is not the suffocating protection of the state; no, it needs fresh air, it needs persecution, and it needs God’s protection. The state only works disaster, it wards off persecution and thus is not the medium through which God’s protection can be conducted. Above all, save Christianity from the state. By its protection it smothers it to death.”

 

[Jon_Mallory]

I’ll leave this quote form Soren Kierkegaard about state churches:

“What Christianity needs is not the suffocating protection of the state; no, it needs fresh air, it needs persecution, and it needs God’s protection. The state only works disaster, it wards off persecution and thus is not the medium through which God’s protection can be conducted. Above all, save Christianity from the state. By its protection it smothers it to death.”