Is the Russian Orthodox Church doing anything about this? (Protestant persecution)

[Rohzek]

Protestantism leads to Unitarianism which leads to humanism which leads to pluralism which leads to secularism which leads to communism. Even 100 years ago we could see the good fruits of Protestantism but they have come to fullfillment as the video states with moral corruption

Uhhhhh…lemme flip this on its head just for the sake of argument. Religion leads to the creation of the heretic and the infidel. The infidel is branded an outsider, while the heretic is branded a threat within. This leads to hatred. This development leads to legalized persecution. Legalized persecution leads to genocide. Genocide leads to the decay of society. The decay of society leads to the decay of morality and human dignity. I can go on and on. My whole argument of course is bogus, but as you can see, I too can make nifty statements about inevitability without backing them up whatsoever.

The christian God is the God of order while the idea that sola scriptora in essence makes all men a Demi God of the scriptures denying history, reason and logic leading to 38,000 different groups believing different things while orthodoxy and catholism is only divided by authority

This doesn’t even answer the question. In fact, it’s not even an argument. You simply restated your assertion without providing any evidence whatsoever.

Orthodoxy and Catholicism are not divided merely by authority. They are divided on the serious doctrinal issues of papal supremacy, papal infallibility, and some others. The first being the largest barrier between the two. That’s not just an issue of authority. It’s an explicit doctrine of the Catholic Church. The whole reason why we refer to each other as “schismatics” rather than “heretics” is simply to be polite.

Even Putin which is completely corrupt is some what acountable to Christ, he hold secularism and Islam at bay while Obama and his cronies embrace the fall of Jesus and even promote it. Russia has seen how bad it is to live a society without Jesus we haven’t

Please explain how exactly Obama has embraced the “fall of Jesus” and how he actively promotes it. Be specific. If you cannot do so, then I suggest throwing such an idea into the flames.

Also, religion never left the Soviet Union. Despite the proclamation of state-atheism, large swaths of the population practiced their religion despite persecution.

None of what you said refutes any of the hard lessons of history regarding the mixing of church and state. You simply ignored it and made the profoundly exaggerated statement that “point A inevitably leads to point Z.” That’s historicism, a completely irrational belief, which only ardent Marxists still believe today.

 

[Adamski]

Rohzek

You answered your own Question about orthodox and catholic division you said it is regarding the pope which is regarding athority

Obama and his cronies promote redefining marriage, abortion, the demise of the family unit, contraception and on and on

 

[Rohzek]

Rohzek

You answered your own Question about orthodox and catholic division you said it is regarding the pope which is regarding athority

Yes, but it’s also a theological dogma, not a simple disagreement of authority. Catholics claim that the pope’s authority was established by Christ and is a theological tenet of the Catholic faith. Orthodox disagree. Therefore, there is a disagreement on the theological level, not some simple level of governance.

Obama and his cronies promote redefining marriage, abortion, the demise of the family unit, contraception and on and on

Redefining marriage? How exactly does allowing gays to get married under secular law force churches to change their definitions of marriage? Homosexuals simply defined marriage in a new way for themselves. That’s fine in my book and nothing new historically. I might morally disagree on theological grounds, but it doesn’t force anyone else to change their definition. The definition of marriage has changed before. It wasn’t even defined as a sacrament until the 12th century in the Latin West. Meanwhile, in the Christian East, it was treated much more akin to how it was treated under Roman law (although not exactly), as a simple contract more or less.

Promoting the demise of the family unit? What policy or action are you even referring to? This phenomenon has been going on for decades. Social scientists are still at a loss for fully explaining its drastic decline. Obama can hardly be called a factor in this case.

As for contraception, I’m sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree with the Catholic Church’s position on it. Its invocation of natural law theory is widely criticized as hypocritical. It’s a topic perhaps best left to another thread. Long story short, I fully support the use of contraception.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Long story short, I fully support the use of contraception.

That’s your personal opinion, but many bishops in your church would disagree. Especially, permanent use of contraception. Abortificient contraceptives are - I’m pretty sure - universally condemned by the Orthodox Churches.

 

[Rohzek]

That’s your personal opinion, but many bishops in your church would disagree. Especially, permanent use of contraception. Abortificient contraceptives are - I’m pretty sure - universally condemned by the Orthodox Churches.

Allow me to briefly clarify. Yes, I agree that abortificients are not good. I also disapprove of permanent use of contraception in general. However, I see no problem with using contraceptives to plan the number and spacing of children.

The bishops opinions are their own personal opinions just as much as mine are. There are plenty of bishops in my church who would be supportive of my position or some derivative of it.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Allow me to briefly clarify. Yes, I agree that abortificients are not good. I also disapprove of permanent use of contraception in general. However, I see no problem with using contraceptives to plan the number and spacing of children.

The bishops opinions are their own personal opinions just as much as mine are. There are plenty of bishops in my church who would be supportive of my position or some derivative of it.

Again, there are Orthodox bishops who agree with you; and there are Orthodox bishops that say any contraceptive use is sinful and forbid it to their flock. Seems like those latter would agree with the official Catholic position. I don’t believe any poll has been taken on which position is majority or official. However, those who oppose sure make it seem official and say that is their Church’s position, while those that don’t usually make it a matter of personal opinion.

 

[Rohzek]

Again, there are Orthodox bishops who agree with you; and there are Orthodox bishops that say any contraceptive use is sinful and forbid it to their flock. Seems like those latter would agree with the official Catholic position. I don’t believe any poll has been taken on which position is majority or official. However, those who oppose sure make it seem official and say that is their Church’s position, while those that don’t usually make it a matter of personal opinion.

They can do that, but then they’d be lying. There is no official position within the Orthodox Church on contraception. The only thing that is generally agreed upon are abortificants, and permanent contraception.

 

[SyroMalankara]

They can do that, but then they’d be lying. There is no official position within the Orthodox Church on contraception. The only thing that is generally agreed upon are abortificants, and permanent contraception.

Greek Archdiocese Yearbook(1957): “If a husband and wife do not desire to have any children, they ought to abstain from all conjugal relations until they are able to have children, and then to come together again in sexual union, relying entirely and solely on God’s omniscience. The use of contraceptive devices for the prevention of childbirth is forbidden and condemned unreservedly by the Greek Orthodox Church.” (pp. 50-51)

The true Church of Christ has never in the past given her blessing for such a practice. This is clearly stated in the Book of Needs (Trebnik), where, in the Order of Confession, among the questions addressed to women we find the following: “Did they wear herbs so as not to have a child… or whether someone poured something into her womb so as not to conceive, or ate some herb…She is to desist and be excluded for six years.” Here the Book of Needs draws support from a ruling of the Sixth Ecumenical Council. Thus, the use of contraceptives goes against not only the spirit and purpose of the Christian marriage and the teachings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, but also goes against the clear and direct decrees and laws of the Church.
“Pastoral Practice and Contemporary Moral Questions” Orthodox Life (1992) -
Priest Gregory Naumenko, ROCOR

Also, if you want an interesting read, those “lying”-bishops (including Patriarchs and even the Ecumenical Patriarch) who replied to Pope Paul VI after Humane Vitae:
“Orthodox Reactions to Humanae Vitae”, Eastern Churches Review (1969)

 

[Rohzek]

Greek Archdiocese Yearbook(1957): “If a husband and wife do not desire to have any children, they ought to abstain from all conjugal relations until they are able to have children, and then to come together again in sexual union, relying entirely and solely on God’s omniscience. The use of contraceptive devices for the prevention of childbirth is forbidden and condemned unreservedly by the Greek Orthodox Church.” (pp. 50-51)

The true Church of Christ has never in the past given her blessing for such a practice. This is clearly stated in the Book of Needs (Trebnik), where, in the Order of Confession, among the questions addressed to women we find the following: “Did they wear herbs so as not to have a child… or whether someone poured something into her womb so as not to conceive, or ate some herb…She is to desist and be excluded for six years.” Here the Book of Needs draws support from a ruling of the Sixth Ecumenical Council. Thus, the use of contraceptives goes against not only the spirit and purpose of the Christian marriage and the teachings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, but also goes against the clear and direct decrees and laws of the Church.
“Pastoral Practice and Contemporary Moral Questions” Orthodox Life (1992) -
Priest Gregory Naumenko, ROCOR

Also, if you want an interesting read, those “lying”-bishops (including Patriarchs and even the Ecumenical Patriarch) who replied to Pope Paul VI after Humane Vitae:
“Orthodox Reactions to Humanae Vitae”, Eastern Churches Review (1969)

I think you misunderstand what I meant by saying they are lying. I meant, that they would be lying if they said it was the official position of the Orthodox Church universally. The Russian Orthodox Church and the Orthodox Church of America both disagree with the Catholic position on contraception, and largely follow the guidelines I’ve already mentioned. Most churches though don’t have an official position. It is largely left up to each individual priest.

orthodoxeurope.org/page/3/14.aspx

oca.org/holy-synod/statements/holy-synod/synodal-affirmations-on-marriage-family-sexuality-and-the-sanctity-of-life

At this point, if we really want to continue discussing this issue specifically, we should probably start another thread.

 

[PatrickC]

Keep the protestants out of Orthodox Christian countries. Sounds like a dream.

 

[putinista]

…

1.) Patriarch Kirill of Moscow sanctions almost every Russian government policy.

Prove it.

He’s a rubber stamp for Putin.

Insulting. False. Prove it.

There is a reason why a certain rockband (these forums censor part of its name) explicitly targeted Kirill for his unwavering support for Putin. Kirill’s harsh and hyperbolic, to say the least, condemnation of the aforementioned band reveals how much he, as a leader of an autocephalous church, is nothing more than a tool for the Russian government.

Insulting. Propagandistic. Libelious.

He claimed their act of protest to be the work of the devil,

Which is obvious to a Christian (and AFAIK, even a Muslim).

…and that they should be severely punished for it.

False and libelious.

So much for free speech.

For your info, U.S. Constitution is not in force in Moscow. Many countries do not apply the principle of free speech.

Putin doesn’t care about Orthodoxy.

Prove it.

He is merely using the church to suit his own political goals.

Prove it.

If it means anything, and it should, the monks of Mount Athos monastery have openly condemned Kirill and those under him as criminals and mere servants of Vladimir Putin. They have declared Kirill and them as anathema.

False. Prove it. I’ll try to dig the proof that they have sent him an Icond that they have blessed. I know they are praying for him.

I’m proud of my Western culture …

Should one care about it more than about one’s pride of one’s non-Western culture?

It spawned the Enlightenment,

Which has given correct answers to false questions.

separation of church and state, and most importantly analytic philosophy.

Which is the narrative for rediscovering Aristrotle, and misunderstanding him.

The Russian Empire specifically with the approval of the Russian Orthodox Church, initiated pogroms against the Jews on a regular basis before the rise of Hitler.

False. Libelious. Prove it.

Let’s not forget about Rasputin either, the influential Russian monk known for his scandalous behavior, who the monarchy endorsed.

False. Libelious.

During World War I, the Russian government spent tons of money on the Russian Orthodox Church, while millions starved, unable to feed themselves.

Prove it.

 

[putinista]

…

The reporter then finishes with this sentence; and I agree with him:

"It’s really hard to blame the Russian Orthodox Church for what’s happened to the Protestants, but I find it hard to believe that the leadership here hasn’t heard anything about what has happened to the Protestant Church’s and I really think it’s their role to speak up on behalf of their fellow Christians here.

I think Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine is quite busy numbering their churches burned and their priests persecuted and threatend by the alliance of Protestants, Byzantine Cahtolics and Jews/Judaists.

 

[on_the_hill]

I wonder if there’s any truth to the claims that certain governments employ people to post favorable messages to Internet forums, as a grassroots propaganda tactic.

 

[wynd]

I wonder if there’s any truth to the claims that certain governments employ people to post favorable messages to Internet forums, as a grassroots propaganda tactic.

Hopefully they’d choose something less obvious than “Putinista” as a username.

 

[Per_Crucem]

Hopefully they’d choose something less obvious than “Putinista” as a username.

Subtlety is outrage!

 

[Peter_J]

Can you explain the logical progression of Protestantism–>unitarianism–>pluralism–>communism?

I think that should be “April showers bring May flowers, but Mayflowers bring Pilgrims.”

 

[Tbrightson]

I think Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine is quite busy numbering their churches burned and their priests persecuted and threatend by the alliance of Protestants, Byzantine Cahtolics and Jews/Judaists.

sure thing

 

[Tbrightson]

I wonder if there’s any truth to the claims that certain governments employ people to post favorable messages to Internet forums, as a grassroots propaganda tactic.

You would be amazed at what people will do for a klondike bar, or Putinka for that matter.

 

[on_the_hill]

Can you explain the logical progression of Protestantism–>unitarianism–>pluralism–>communism? I think many Protestants would object that this is a slippery slope fallacy and that Protestantism actually leads to capitalism.

I think that should be “April showers bring May flowers, but Mayflowers bring Pilgrims.”

Who, by the by, were Protestants!

Oh, the irony. The irony!

 

[Rohzek]

I think Russian Orthodox Church in Ukraine is quite busy numbering their churches burned and their priests persecuted and threatend by the alliance of Protestants, Byzantine Cahtolics and Jews/Judaists.

I considered citing sources to “prove” myself. But considering your name, and seeing xenophobic and anti-semitic remarks, I’ll leave such actions to someone with more patience than I have.

I stand by everything I say, which many others happen to believe and see themselves.

georgianjournal.ge/world/26558-athos-monks-passed-putin-and-the-patriarch-kirill-on-anathema.html