Is the saint in heaven watching himself in the here and now?!

[Linux]

Lets assume God knows I will go to heaven.

Since God is timeless and therefore his knowledge is timeless, then it must be the case that as far as God is concerned I am already in the eternal now in heaven as we speak experiencing the beatific vision, while at the same time I am not in heaven in the respect of my temporal existence as I am writing this.

Could it be that my heavenly self is watching me right now as I am writing this!!! And if so could I theoretically pray to my self like I would pray to a saint?

Obviously I wouldn’t actually attempt to pray to my self as that would be an act of vanity. I am just asking is it possible that my heavenly self would receive the prayer and if so is it logically possible for him to respond.

 

[bzkoss236]

Lets assume God knows I will go to heaven.

Since God is timeless and therefore his knowledge is timeless, then it must be the case that as far as God is concerned I am already in the eternal now in heaven as we speak experiencing the beatific vision, while at the same time I am not in heaven in the respect of my temporal existence as I am writing this.

Could it be that my heavenly self is watching me right now as I am writing this!!! And if so could I theoretically pray to my self like I would pray to a saint?

Obviously I wouldn’t actually attempt to pray to my self as that would be an act of vanity. I am just asking is it possible that my heavenly self would receive the prayer and if so is it logically possible for him to respond.

While God is eternal and infinite, we are not. Even in heaven there are bounds. We can see indications from scripture that heaven is not timeless, but has some sense of time, though likely not what we experience exactly here on earth. So, one is not in heaven and on earth at the same “moment”. So, assuming you make it to heaven, you are not watching yourself from heaven, as your experience from heaven would be that only after your death into forever.

 

[Linux]

While God is eternal and infinite, we are not. Even in heaven there are bounds. We can see indications from scripture that heaven is not timeless, but has some sense of time, though likely not what we experience exactly here on earth. So, one is not in heaven and on earth at the same “moment”. So, assuming you make it to heaven, you are not watching yourself from heaven, as your experience from heaven would be that only after your death into forever.

However, God timelessly knows whether or not I am in heaven. From a Gods eye view of things I am already receiving the beatific vision as I am writing this.

 

[bzkoss236]

However, God timelessly knows whether or not I am in heaven. From a Gods eye view of things I am already receiving the beatific vision as I am writing this.

Again, that’s assuming you make it to heaven, but it is still in our future and not “now”. So, it’s not that you are ‘already’ receiving the beatific vision, it is that God can see you now and when you are receiving the beatific vision. They still aren’t the same moment, but God can see them both.

 

[Linux]

Again, that’s assuming you make it to heaven, .

Yes I already made it clear that this was an assumption for the sake of argument.

but it is still in our future and not “now”.

From our temporal perspective it is in the future, but at the same time it is also in the eternal now.

So, it’s not that you are ‘already’ receiving the beatific vision, it is that God can see you now and when you are receiving the beatific vision. They still aren’t the same moment, but God can see them both.

They are not the same moment. But God knows right now that I am receiving the beatific vision.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

However, God timelessly knows whether or not I am in heaven. From a Gods eye view of things I am already receiving the beatific vision as I am writing this.

Knowing where someone will be does not mean that person is already there. I could be standing on top of a mountain, watching you walk down a trail and know where you will be before you turn the corner; however, my knowledge of this does not mean you are already in that spot where I know you will be.

 

[Linux]

Knowing where someone will be does not mean that person is already there. I could be standing on top of a mountain, watching you walk down a trail and know where you will be before you turn the corner; however, my knowledge of this does not mean you are already in that spot where I know you will be.

God doesn’t simply know where things will be, he is eternally present to all time simultaneously. He is present to me now and at the same time he is present to me at the beatific vision. There is no succession in God.

 

[franklinstower]

Lets assume God knows I will go to heaven.

Since God is timeless and therefore his knowledge is timeless, then it must be the case that as far as God is concerned I am already in the eternal now in heaven as we speak experiencing the beatific vision, while at the same time I am not in heaven in the respect of my temporal existence as I am writing this.

Could it be that my heavenly self is watching me right now as I am writing this!!! And if so could I theoretically pray to my self like I would pray to a saint?

Obviously I wouldn’t actually attempt to pray to my self as that would be an act of vanity. I am just asking is it possible that my heavenly self would receive the prayer and if so is it logically possible for him to respond.

Just for fun i think I will point out that this is exactly what “A Course in Miracles” teaches and it is also the main thrust of many new age teachings. The heavenly self as you put it is called the higher self in the New Age movement and you do pray to it in that system.

The “Course” goes further and states that only that which is eternal is real and so there is no need for forgiveness of sin-- and actually no sin because everyone is already in heaven.

I do not support any of these positions— I just was struck by the similarities in them to your question so wanted to point it out.

 

[Skye_Ariel]

Lets assume God knows I will go to heaven.

Since God is timeless and therefore his knowledge is timeless, then it must be the case that as far as God is concerned I am already in the eternal now in heaven as we speak experiencing the beatific vision, while at the same time I am not in heaven in the respect of my temporal existence as I am writing this.

Could it be that my heavenly self is watching me right now as I am writing this!!! And if so could I theoretically pray to my self like I would pray to a saint?

Obviously I wouldn’t actually attempt to pray to my self as that would be an act of vanity. I am just asking is it possible that my heavenly self would receive the prayer and if so is it logically possible for him to respond.

That is an interesting idea, and if that’s possible, that’s where multiple dimensions will have to come into play. Maybe in another dimension outside time you are already in heaven. I believe in multiple dimensions and that’s where deja vu comes from. But I’m not sure about praying to yourself. That part doesn’t seem right.

 

[Skye_Ariel]

Knowing where someone will be does not mean that person is already there. I could be standing on top of a mountain, watching you walk down a trail and know where you will be before you turn the corner; however, my knowledge of this does not mean you are already in that spot where I know you will be.

It’s not in the knowing you will go there, it’s once you reach the eternity outside time that you might be able to view yourself in a different dimension. Outside time is a different dimension than inside time. That’s why angels are invisible, they are in another dimension. Once you reach the end of the journey on earth and go to the spiritual realm of heaven and outside time, you are in another dimension. So who knows what’s possible in that dimension? Once I get to Heaven I wouldn’t mind watching historical events that happened on earth from a different dimension outside time. Watching the pyramids get built and things like that. Only watching but unable to interfere from that dimension. We could learn the real truth about the history of mankind and the world once we get to Heaven.

 

[Mount_Carmel]

However, God timelessly knows whether or not I am in heaven. From a Gods eye view of things I am already receiving the beatific vision as I am writing this.

No, God also has a complete sense/awareness of the reality of physical limitations of ‘timelines’.

While He can see the future it is still for you to physically and spiritually complete things in order for that ‘future’ to come together in complete fullness. What God sees beforehand is a vision that is yet to become a reality.

 

[CrispSnowflake]

You should read up on some near death experiences (NDEs) where the soul is floating around, going to various places. The soul is in Heaven and looks down at his/her deathbed, etc.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

No, God also has a complete sense/awareness of the reality of physical limitations of ‘timelines’.

While He can see the future it is still for you to physically and spiritually complete things in order for that ‘future’ to come together in complete fullness. What God sees beforehand is a vision that is yet to become a reality.

Exactly what I was trying to get at. God’s knowledge is not unrealistic to the reality He created, especially when comes to His creations; us. While God is timeless, we are not. Whatever knowledge God has about us is in perfect harmony with the way in which He created us.

 

[bzkoss236]

Yes I already made it clear that this was an assumption for the sake of argument.

From our temporal perspective it is in the future, but at the same time it is also in the eternal now.

They are not the same moment. But God knows right now that I am receiving the beatific vision.

Just trying to make sure we’re on the same page.

So, since your present self doesn’t know for certain whether your future self is receiving the beatific vision, it would not benefit you to pray to ‘yourself’. And as I stated before, since heaven is still limited, per our current understanding, those in heaven cannot ‘see’ back in time. So, your future heavenly self wouldn’t ‘see’ your present self. So, you are not looking down on yourself, which would be another reason why praying to yourself would not be efficacious, since you wouldn’t be able to hear your own prayers unless God gave them to you from the past. However, if God would do such, it still would not benefit you as what you would pray for yourself for would have already come and gone, as it was the past, and therefore could not be changed.

 

[bzkoss236]

I believe in multiple dimensions and that’s where deja vu comes from.

Not to side track, but I think you mean multiple universes rather than multiple dimensions. A dimension is some measure of space-time, like the spacial dimensions and the measurement of time. Whereas a parallel universe (part of a multi-verse) would house whole new worlds similar to ours. The problem with this supposed interaction is that they would not be us. They would look and act like us, but anyone in that other universe would have a separate soul from our own, like how it is portrayed in the show Fringe.

Also current medical science has a good guess as to what causes deja vu. They believe (though admittedly still a theory) that when processing information, the information accidentally gets duplicated with one bunch of data being delayed behind the ‘live’ information, and so the information gets processed twice. The brain then recognizes that the information has been duplicated and gives you the deja vu feeling.

Or it’s a glitch in the matrix.

 

[Boulder257]

Or it’s a glitch in the matrix.

You stole my thunder on that one

 

[empther]

This is definitely one of the dumbest thread questions I’ve seen yet.

Is anybody fooled by what Linux tries to do on this forum?

Sadly, the answer is yes. :bighanky:

 

[brian614]

This is definitely one of the dumbest thread questions I’ve seen yet.

Is anybody fooled by what Linux tries to do on this forum?

Sadly, the answer is yes. :bighanky:

Just curious but what does Linux try to do?

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

Just curious but what does Linux try to do?

I think what empther is trying to say, is that Linux is trying to indirectly discredit the belief in free will based on God’s omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence. Empther and Linux are welcome to correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[brian614]

I think what empther is trying to say, is that Linux is trying to indirectly discredit the belief in free will based on God’s omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence. Empther and Linux are welcome to correct me if I’m wrong.

I gottcha