Is the Scripture enough?

[t68ware]

I am wondering if Scripture, all by itself, is enough to bring somebody to the saving knowledge of Christ? As a former Protestant, I used to think that but now as a Catholic, I see us believing in things that do not pertain to things necessary for salvation, such as saying the Rosary, praying to the Saints, praying to Mary, etc. It seems to me that the power of Scripture is itself powerful enough to bring someone to repentance and point them to Christ. Thoughts?

 

[Rich_C]

Could you clarify what you mean?

I think reading scripture could be the way the Holy Ghost get to them, and makes them want to convert. (Think of St. Augustine, for one)

I don’t think a layman reading scripture only would arrive at the fullness of Truth.

And the Church teaches that the surest way to salvation is through the sheepfold that Christ shepards, Herself.

 

[t68ware]

see, that is where I am having the issue. I came to knowledge of Christ in a Methodist church, repenting of my sins, being baptized and pledging my life to Him, which is what Scripture says to do, Repent and be baptized and belief on the Lord Jesus Christ, and while the Church is greatly needed to guide the faithful, I know so many wonderful faithful Christians who are not Catholic. They believe the Scriptures, and they demonstrate the fruit of the Holy Spirit, so it appears that, the belief that they have in sola Scriptura is enough.

 

[Rich_C]

Okay, let me re-state your premise to see if I get it:

Some people, after reading the scriptures, seem to do everything necessary for their salvation, without depending on the Church for anything.

Did I follow?

So what you’re really asking is: do Protestants have everything necessary for salvation?

Have I got to the heart of your concern?

 

[t68ware]

yes, that is the heart of the question… it seems Catholics have so much “extra” stuff to do when Protestant Christians, as sola Scriptura believers, have an uncomplicated Christianity, but still enjoy a wonderful relationship with Christ.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Whether Sacred Scripture contains, in some form, all the revealed truth that is necessary for salvation is something good Catholics disagree on.

In my opinion, it depends on how you interpret the question. On the one hand, the Bible contains enough information, implicitly or explicitly, to lead one to salvation in the Catholic Church if it is correctly interpreted, accepted, and acted upon. On the other hand, there are certain dogmas which are binding on Catholics to believe, the rejection of which could easily be a mortal sin, which I am not convinced could be deduced even by a genius from the Bible alone, such as the Assumption (yes, once you know about the Assumption you can, perhaps, see it reflected in Scripture, but I’m dubious of the claim that knowledge of the event could be arrived at from Scripture alone).

 

[Aelred_Minor]

yes, that is the heart of the question… it seems Catholics have so much “extra” stuff to do when Protestant Christians, as sola Scriptura believers, have an uncomplicated Christianity, but still enjoy a wonderful relationship with Christ.

I guess I misinterpreted your question.

Yes, Protestants have a simplified Christianity, stripped of so much that is good and beautiful and true, and especially stripped of the Eucharist. It’s sad that there are so many people who honestly love and seek to serve Jesus Christ who are missing out on so much of what he has offered to all of us.

Can we hope for their salvation? Yes. But they are also missing out on some of the key means of salvation that Jesus has provided to the Church.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Christ didn’t leave us a Bible – He left us the Catholic Church as our teacher. The Church produced the Bible.

Your question suggests you may have been poorly instructed when you came into the Church. Do you know the history of the Bible? The history of the Church (which is the history of Christianity)?

A little book is available from Catholic Answers and from Amazon that tells the facts about Bible history: * Where We Got the Bible*, by Henry G. Graham.

Protestants have some of the Truth, but not all of it. And some of their beliefs are not true (like Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide, to name only two).

Yes, they may be saved. But they lack the gifts Christ gave us to help us get to heaven – the sacraments, especially the Eucharist, Confession, and the Anointing of the Sick.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[ConstantineTG]

I am wondering if Scripture, all by itself, is enough to bring somebody to the saving knowledge of Christ? As a former Protestant, I used to think that but now as a Catholic, I see us believing in things that do not pertain to things necessary for salvation, such as saying the Rosary, praying to the Saints, praying to Mary, etc. It seems to me that the power of Scripture is itself powerful enough to bring someone to repentance and point them to Christ. Thoughts?

There are some philosophical thoughts on what constitutes “knowledge”. One example I heard goes like this, if someone tells you not to stick your head inside the oven when it is turned on and you do it, it is because you fully know what are the conditions and what are the consequences. That is full knowledge. But if you do something even after being told, then you do not have full knowledge. Because obviously if you do then you wouldn’t do it having the full knowledge of the consequences.

So if one is told not to sin and yet sins, can one conclusively say that one person has full knowledge of their actions? The results prove the contrary because they still did something that would cause them harm.

Ultimately, if one went through the Scriptures and acts accordingly, then one has gained the knowledge of Christ. But if one did and doesn’t change him or her, then they did not gain the knowledge or at least enough of it.

 

[IesumPerMariam]

2 Peter 1:20

Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.

2 Peter 3:16

As also in all [Paul’s] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

2 Thess. 2:14

Therefore brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

Hence, CCC 82:

As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, “does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.”

 

[JackHandy]

As someone who had a protestant view of who Christ was and the nature of the church until a few months ago, I have to say it is an entirely different world. There is a huge difference in being Protestant and being Catholic.

Protestants miss so much and it is really sad because mostly they miss it by simply being misinformed. It is my greatest wish that all people’s eyes would be opened to the full and complete truth about what it is to be a Christian that exists within the Catholic Church.

God Bless

Jack Handy

 

[Todd_Easton]

Sacred Scripture is so easily misinterpreted and twisted that I think the Church’s living Magisterium is necessary to provide a correct understanding of God’s will for us in those areas of human life mentioned in Sacred Scripture and also in those areas of human life not mentioned there. How many today, including Christians, see nothing wrong with remarriage after divorce, the use of artificial contraceptives, abortions, sterilizations, IVFs, and even homosexual unions?

It is good to repent of the things that we think are sinful and thereafter avoid the things that we think are sinful but it is better when what we think jives with the truth and we repent of the things that are actually sinful and thereafter avoid the things that are actually sinful. Not doing the Master’s will out of ignorance won’t be punished as severely as knowingly not doing the Master’s will but it will be punished nonetheless. (See Luke 12:47-48)

 

[johnnyjones]

I never dwelled on it as a former Fundamentalist but now as a Catholic (and previously one) I don’t think you need the bible to attain salvation. It’s all about the fullness of God. The catholic church reveals that. Scripture or no scripture God can reach you, it is just not the average to have neither.

Is scripture alone enough for the fullness of the faith? No.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Whether Sacred Scripture contains, in some form, all the revealed truth that is necessary for salvation is something good Catholics disagree on.

On the other hand, there are certain dogmas which are binding on Catholics to believe, the rejection of which could easily be a mortal sin, which I am not convinced could be deduced even by a genius from the Bible alone, such as the Assumption (yes, once you know about the Assumption you can, perhaps, see it reflected in Scripture, but I’m dubious of the claim that knowledge of the event could be arrived at from Scripture alone).

In regards to the Assumption, should it be regarded as a revealed truth? The crucifixion and the post-resurrection appearances of Christ are historical events that were witnessed, and therefore not revelation as such. I think of the Assumption the same way–it was a historical happening that was witnessed, hence the source of the belief. The dogmatic definition of the Assumption verifies that the source of the belief was accurate.

 

[mackbrislawn]

I am wondering if Scripture, all by itself, is enough to bring somebody to the saving knowledge of Christ? As a former Protestant, I used to think that but now as a Catholic, I see us believing in things that do not pertain to things necessary for salvation, such as saying the Rosary, praying to the Saints, praying to Mary, etc. It seems to me that the power of Scripture is itself powerful enough to bring someone to repentance and point them to Christ. Thoughts?

As Catholics, we think of the Church as the institution empowered and commissioned by Christ to teach His truths. Scripture was written by members of the Church to other members of the Church as a tool for the Church’s evangelization efforts.
Paul says to Timothy that scripture completes the man of God for every good work. He says that to Timothy who was already a man of God. Hence we we mustn’t think that scripture makes us into a man of God. It is the job of the Church to do that.

 

[Crumpy]

I am wondering if Scripture, all by itself, is enough to bring somebody to the saving knowledge of Christ? As a former Protestant, I used to think that but now as a Catholic, I see us believing in things that do not pertain to things necessary for salvation, such as saying the Rosary, praying to the Saints, praying to Mary, etc. It seems to me that the power of Scripture is itself powerful enough to bring someone to repentance and point them to Christ. Thoughts?

I was reading the document from the Pontifical Biblical Commission called The Jewish People and their Scriptures in the Christian Bible ( see ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCJWSCR.HTM ) in the place where it talks about the importance of tradition, in interpreting the Bible.

I had also read just that day or the day before nearly the same statement in an essay in a recent book called The Jewish Annotated New Testament, which is a type of commentary on the New Testament by Jewish scholars. In particular, the writer was saying that the Torah could not be understood without appealing to Tradition. The same writer noted that Reformation Christians have attacked Judaism and the Roman Catholic Church on this issue, of the need for Tradition in understanding the Bible.

So, it IS the established position of two serious and credible religions that you cannot have “the Bible alone.”

but, I suppose you could sit in your hotel room and read the Gideon Bible in the drawer, and read enough to “be saved” but just barely enough to get interested in Christianity. At some point you have to make a serious commitment to this faith, and then question then becomes, which is the correct path of faith?

I am a lifelong Catholic, and I am familiar with the popularity of devotions such as saying the Rosary and others such as praying to the saints. But, I know of no requirement in the Church to do so. So, it’s really kind of a strange Church, which allows such things, but does not require them.

What I think proper devotion to the canonized saints SHOULD involve is looking at them for examples or models of Catholic living (in general).

In many areas I see people who have statues of the Virgin Mary in their yard and this is not a requirement of the Catholic faith, either.

Hard questions remain unanswered. If Mary is our mother and an intercessor for us (as suggested in the Book of Revelations), then why do we have to pray TO HER? Why do we have to invoke her intercession? Shouldn’t she be praying for us, already?

Well, I don’t want to be too hard on anybody with those questions. I never get an answer. But, I do believe in the teaching of the Catholic Church, without exception, regarding salvation.

What I can say, I respect people who are prayerful and devotional. Perhaps the Holy Spirit will inspire me that way, some day. Jesus taught us to pray to God the Father. I can’t get past praying to God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[Church_Militant]

I am wondering if Scripture, all by itself, is enough to bring somebody to the saving knowledge of Christ? As a former Protestant, I used to think that but now as a Catholic, I see us believing in things that do not pertain to things necessary for salvation, such as saying the Rosary, praying to the Saints, praying to Mary, etc. It seems to me that the power of Scripture is itself powerful enough to bring someone to repentance and point them to Christ. Thoughts?

see, that is where I am having the issue. I came to knowledge of Christ in a Methodist church, repenting of my sins, being baptized and pledging my life to Him, which is what Scripture says to do, Repent and be baptized and belief on the Lord Jesus Christ, and while the Church is greatly needed to guide the faithful, I know so many wonderful faithful Christians who are not Catholic. They believe the Scriptures, and they demonstrate the fruit of the Holy Spirit, so it appears that, the belief that they have in sola Scriptura is enough.

yes, that is the heart of the question… it seems Catholics have so much “extra” stuff to do when Protestant Christians, as sola Scriptura believers, have an** uncomplicated** Christianity, but still enjoy a wonderful relationship with Christ.

T68, I have to disagree with you on this one.

Y’see, I spent over 35 years outside the faith (See My Testimony) and most of that as a Protestant. In retrospect, I’m not much impressed with what I was taught and what I believed because I can see its lack of solid scriptural basis. This article sort of sums it all up for me. Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

As for the Rosary, The Intercession & Communion of Saints and such, what’s wrong with them? Nothing that I can find and, though many have tried, no n-C has been able to show where the Bible says that everything that we believe and practice must be found in the Bible. (See “If anyone teaches/preaches something that is not in scripture” & It’s NOT in the Bible, okay? & It’s NOT in the Bible, okay? (Part II))

I have found that the real New Testament Christianity is much different than that other (“uncomplicated”) Gospel that so many of their communities preach. If what they had was so right, then I certainly wouldn’t go through the “hassles” of being a Catholic, but I believe in the fullness of objective truth.

Just because some n-Cs are squared away morally, does not mean that one should presume that it’s okay for them to embrace new winds of doctrines of men, which is what Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide really are. Neither, as you probably already know, are scriptural doctrines, but are doctrinal errors that depart from the truth of the Gospel as found in the New Testament.

I would suggest that you download this very good Bible study MP3 by John Martignoni and prayerfully listen to it. Which Came First, the Church or the Bible? because, without the Church, there wouldn’t be a Bible as we have it to today, and especially not the New Testament.
God’s peace,

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

I never dwelled on it as a former Fundamentalist but now as a Catholic (and previously one) I don’t think you need the bible to attain salvation. It’s all about the fullness of God. The catholic church reveals that. Scripture or no scripture God can reach you, it is just not the average to have neither.

Is scripture alone enough for the fullness of the faith? No.

Hello, Just wanted to put in my two cents worth.
This thread makes me wonder where the bible only churches would be
with out The Bible the Catholic Church produced?
The Catholic Church does reveal what Scripture states. To me The Bible is sort of a
diary of what took place when Christ was on earth. Christ gave the Church the authority to
teach the truth and any question or concerns that are in the Bible or matters of faith.
Taking matters of faith and or morals to the Bible and not to the Church that Christ gave to aid in our salvation has resulted in mass confusion and tens of thousands of denominations not agreeing with each other.
Authority is the MAIN problem with non-Catholic Christians!!!

Matthew

 

[Nicea325]

see, that is where I am having the issue. I came to knowledge of Christ in a Methodist church, repenting of my sins, being baptized and pledging my life to Him, which is what Scripture says to do, Repent and be baptized and belief on the Lord Jesus Christ, and while the Church is greatly needed to guide the faithful, I know so many wonderful faithful Christians who are not Catholic. They believe the Scriptures, and they demonstrate the fruit of the Holy Spirit, so it appears that, the belief that they have in sola Scriptura is enough.

Look at this from this perspective: If Scripture-alone is enough to bring someone to Christ,how did millions of folks do it for centuries,if they did not own and read the Bible?

 

[t68ware]

Thank you so much for all the answers. You all have given me many things to consider and prayerfully consider. Thank you!