Is the SSPX a cult?

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Juama

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I would like to hear anyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut on this matter that has been a member of the SSPX…is the SSPX a cult?

Let me define what I mean by cult:

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing, and employing unethical manipulative or coercive techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency of the group and fear of leaving it), designed to advance the goals of the group’s leaders, to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." (Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships, Jana Lalich and Madeleine Tobias, pages 10-11, Bay Tree Publishing, 2006, Berkeley, CA., U.S.A.)

In other words, a cult is defined by BEHAVIOR, NOT BELIEF.

In this psycological definition of a cult, can the SSPX be considered a cult?
 
A cult would, by definition, have to be in heresy with the Catholic Church. They are/were in schism, so no.
 
It’s amazing how the devil gets people to attack those who hold to the true faith. Protestants are fine, the Eastern Orthodox are sister Churches, the Jews have their own covenent that was “never revoked by God”, the Muslims “worship the same God as us”, the Buddhist and Hindus are praised, and the African Witch Doctors and African Animists are invited to Assisi to pray to the devil for world peace… “but whatever you do stay away from those evil SSPXer’s who still believe what the Church has always taught”. The SSPX is the only group it politically correct to hate.

And how many times have Protestants used these same type “cult” arguments against the Catholic Church.
"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person
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This would be the Pope.
idea, or thing
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The Catholic faith and Jesus Christ.
and employing unethical manipulative or coercive techniques of persuasion and control
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Telling them that “there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church” in order to keep them in the “cult”, and claiming that “to be saved all must obey the Pope”, thereby preventing them from disobeying.
 
Juama said:
I would like to hear anyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut on this matter that has been a member of the SSPX…is the SSPX a cult?

Let me define what I mean by cult:

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing, and employing unethical manipulative or coercive techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency of the group and fear of leaving it), designed to advance the goals of the group’s leaders, to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." (Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships, Jana Lalich and Madeleine Tobias, pages 10-11, Bay Tree Publishing, 2006, Berkeley, CA., U.S.A.)

In other words, a cult is defined by BEHAVIOR, NOT BELIEF.

In this psycological definition of a cult, can the SSPX be considered a cult?
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:rolleyes: I can’t think of a better response to your question than to quote Archbishop Fulton Sheen:
“God has placed obvious limitations on our human intelligence, but no such limits on our stupidity.”

Nuff said!
 
I echo Yours Truly’s sentiments: its astonishing how all the flack regarding the SSPX comes from within the Church. What a sad, misguided world we live in.
 
Everyone is missing my point…

My reason for posting this was NOT to criticize the SSPX’s beliefs (I hope they come into unity with Rome again, they will do a lot of good for the Church!!) but to ask if their behavior might be cultic, that’s all.

**What defines a cult is behavior, not belief. **

Even a group that is approved by the Church can be a cult. Church approval only guarantees canonical status in the Church, it is not a “magic wand” that makes the group 100% good and psychologically healthy.

There are liberal cults, conservative cults, traditional cults, business cults, political cults, etc.

We are talking about BEHAVIOR and psychology here.

You might want to check out my article on the matter:

howtostaycatholic.blogspot.com/
 
I completely agree! I think the best way to help our Church is to claim that the one group who singlehandedly helped save the ancient liturgy is a cult!

What you completely fail to point out is WHY you think they’re a cult… WHAT makes you think that?? As of right now you’re falsely, accusing a group within the Catholic Church of being a cult without any proof or claims whatsoever. Get some facts, get some verifiable behavior, get something else besides that axe you’ve got grinding over on your website.

Can’t find anything? Then get over it and stop dealing with hypotheticals and hearsay.
 
I feel like starting a thread which asks “Is Juama a Terrorist?”, provides a definition of terrorism, and gives absolutely no evidence that Juama is a terrorist - just leaves it as an “open question”.

Of course, my thread would be quickly deleted for casting unfair aspersions on someone’s character. :rolleyes:
 
I was tempted to pass this thread by considering it falsely accuses without a shred of evidence, not even speculation… nothing! that a group of religious within the Catholic Church is a cult. But then I got to thinking… Juama, you seem to think we miss the point. I think rather, it might be you who’s missing the point. You’ve brought absolutely nothing to the table besides blind insult.

“A cult is a group or movement exhibiting great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing, and employing unethical manipulative or coercive techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency of the group and fear of leaving it), designed to advance the goals of the group’s leaders, to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community.” (Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships, Jana Lalich and Madeleine Tobias, pages 10-11, Bay Tree Publishing, 2006, Berkeley, CA., U.S.A.)

Can Christianity as a whole be considered a cult? Let’s discuss … Oh and let’s forget I have absolutely no evidence to support this entirely offensive claim and pretend it makes sense.
 
Absolutely not!

“and employing unethical manipulative or coercive techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency of the group and fear of leaving it)”

SSPX does not brainwash people to attend, they attend because they want to reclaim the sacredness of the Tridentine Mass.

This Sunday I will be attending my first SSPX Latin Mass, I’m excited, and nobody is brainwashing me. 😉
 
Sorry for digging up this old thread. Perhaps, can someone who’s been part of SSPX shed some light on this? It would be greatly appreciated.
 
I don’t really undersand whu you would bring up an old thread like this one when you could have easily started a new one. :confused:

Anyway, no the SSPX is not a cult and never has been. They are still very much a part of the Roman Church and are not formally in schism. They are not heretics. At the present time their situation is as the Vatican says, iregular. They are not excommunicated as a group although the founder and several Bishops were at one point, The Bishops have had their excommunications lifted but apparently, not the founder,. They have valid Priests, valid Bishops, valid lines of succession and celebrate valid, but illicit Masses.

Their situation is very complicated and has been discussed seemingly endlessly on this forum.
 
AllSeasons said:
Sorry for digging up this old thread. Perhaps, can someone who’s been part of SSPX shed some light on this? It would be greatly appreciated.
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It’s not a cult (or even a schismatic group); it’s merely a sub-set or sub-group within the Church which is leery of some of the changes that have affected it post-World War II, and mistakenly attribute these changes to Church documents (particularly the Vatican II documents) rather than broader social and historical forces. They don’t have the cult-like properties of brainwashing, love-bombing, obsessive secrecy, and encouraging members to cut off all ties. True, a lot of what they say and do can be annoying to “regular” Catholics, but that’s hardly grounds for labelling them a cult.

If you want a true example of a cult, try ISKCON, the Children of God, or $cientology. 😃
 
Resurrecting a 4 year old thread. Give us a break. If you want to discuss SSPX then start a new thread.
 
Mike30 said:
I don’t really undersand whu you would bring up an old thread like this one when you could have easily started a new one. :confused:
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thistle said:
Resurrecting a 4 year old thread. Give us a break. If you want to discuss SSPX then start a new thread.
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Old threads never die; they just fade away. But occasionally they’re resurrected. By the way, tomorrow’s Veteran’s Day in the US, hence the MacArthur quote pun.

Kidding aside, I thought it was common courtesy to not start a new thread if an old exists. Guess I made an online faux pas. My apologies.
 
Speaking from the perspective of someone who is associated with the Society of St. Pius X, I think it fails to qualify as a cult from all perspectives. There is not an attachment or worship of a human person, and there is no coercion involved to enslave laity or priests.

Hope that suffices to close the thread.
 
Speaking also as someone who was for many years directly associated with the SSPX, it could be suggested that a cult of personality has been built up around Archbishop Lefebvre, who died excommunicated but is treated with extreme reverence - in contrast to the utter disdain, disobedience, and lack of respect paid to the Holy Father and some of those before him.

I wouldn’t use the words “coersion” or “enslave”, however there is extreme social pressure to conform to the SSPX social model within the organization. I do know personally SSPX parents who do not allow their children to, for instance, go shopping at the grocery store because they might “see women in pants”. Is this enslavement? No. Of course not. But it’s indicative of an overall isolation from the world which is not entirely Catholic.

I think “Catholic Ghetto” or “Isolationist” fits a bit better than “cult” on the second point, but “cult” works well for my first, very legitimate point.
 
Thank you for helping confirm it is not a cult … that was the question in the OP. There have and still are cults of personality surrounding many men and women in the Catholic church - most saints have millions of people devoted to them in such cults.
 
giuseppeTO said:
Thank you for helping confirm it is not a cult … that was the question in the OP. There have and still are cults of personality surrounding many men and women in the Catholic church - most saints have millions of people devoted to them in such cults.
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You must have misunderstood my meaning. I meant to imply that the cult of personality surrounding Archbishop Lefebvre is disordered, and that there are some cult-like aspects of the SSPX. You are using the word “cult” in the dictionary sense, where the OP is wondering if the organization is a cult in the modern vernacular. You see, Lefebvre died excommunicated and outside of the Church. Yet, he is venerated and even equated with sanctity (a connection you made in the above post).
 
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