Is the SSPX considered a different religion? Sect? Denomination?

[Mike30]

See generally CIC nos. 298-329. The SSPX was at one time a pious union canonically organized within the Diocese of Fribourg, Germany, but its pious union status was withdrawn in 1975 and its canonical existence ended.

I stand corrected, While they are undoubtedly an organization and they are undoubtedly wholly Catholic they are not under Canon Law a Catholic Organization because they do not fall under any ecclesiastical authority. Is that about right?

 

[FLGreg]

The Society of St. Pius X is an international traditionalist Catholic organization with no canonical status with Rome and its ministers “do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church”.

 

[Warrenton]

This is not correct. It is an unofficial organization of Catholics, but it is not a Catholic organization, which term has a defined canonical meaning and is not satisfied by the SSPX.

I perused the canons you referenced. They seem to employ the term “association”, not “organization.” Is there a different set of canons you read than that which you posted, or did I miss one?

 

[JM3]

I perused the canons you referenced. They seem to employ the term “association”, not “organization.” Is there a different set of canons you read than that which you posted, or did I miss one?

From a dictionary.

as·so·ci·a·tion
noun \ə-ˌsō-sē-ˈā-shən, -shē-\

Definition of ASSOCIATION

1 a: the act of associating b: the state of being associated : combination, relationship b: the state of being associated : combination, relationship

2 an organization of persons having a common interest : society

 

[MarkThompson]

I perused the canons you referenced. They seem to employ the term “association”, not “organization.” Is there a different set of canons you read than that which you posted, or did I miss one?

Latin doesn’t have a separate word for “organization” (it’s a pretty imprecise language not capable of a lot of fine distinctions), so I didn’t intend to imply any difference.

 

[Tridentinum]

So the Orthodox are a Catholic organization as well because the Church spends a lot of time talking to them.

That’s not quite how it works. The Orthodox are in schism, the SSPX are not.

 

[Hokomai]

As far as I can see the SSPX is a ‘splinter group’ in the political sense of the term. It offers to rejoin the organisation from which it splintered if an when the original organisation agrees with the SSPX. It has no organic (material, financial, etc) link to the original organisation, and is not under its control. It therefore cannot be considered a part of the Roman Catholic Church as an organisation. Whether or not it is a part of the mystical body of Christ on the other hand is something smeone who believes in it should say. So if i were asked to describe it i would say it is a 'splinter group with no organisational ties to the Church which uses Church branding despite this".

 

[ConstantineTG]

The SSPX is a Catholic organization because it considers itself such, it uses Catholic liturgical rites, it has a Catholic structure, and it is no secret that they are talking to the hierarchy at this very moment in history about being reintegrated with the mainstream Church. I don’t know if the Orthodox Churches consider themselves Catholic and I’m not really sure of their status regarding how they view the papacy, so I don’t really care to talk about that, but I don’t imagine the average Orthodox person considers himself Catholic. However, I don’t actually know. The average SSPXer does consider himself Catholic. That’s the difference, and is what matters.

The Orthodox consider themselves Catholic as well, while they tend not to flaunt the name “Catholic” so as not to confuse and distinguish themselves from the Church in Rome and those in Communion with it.

They do have a Catholic liturgical rite, unless you believe that we Eastern Catholics do not have a Catholic liturgical rite. Everything in our Liturgy have for a few lines is exactly the same as what the Orthodox say and do in their Liturgies. We don’t even edit the “Orthodox Christians” parts in the Divine Liturgy.

Anyway, we should be careful about making sweeping statements about what makes a Catholic or not. Ultimately what makes a Catholic is communion with the bishop of Rome. Communion isn’t like citizenship to a country that you cannot lose just like that. If you are born in America and lived in America all your life and married an American, you say the worst things about America and kill Americans if you want, you’re still American. Being Catholic isn’t the same way. If you are not in communion with your bishop who is in communion with the Pope, then you are not Catholic. So the question is, are the in communion? Frankly, I don’t think anyone knows, isn’t that what they are trying to resolve right now? So is it safe to say their Catholicity is questionable at best?

 

[YoungTradCath]

The Orthodox consider themselves Catholic as well, while they tend not to flaunt the name “Catholic” so as not to confuse and distinguish themselves from the Church in Rome and those in Communion with it.

They do have a Catholic liturgical rite, unless you believe that we Eastern Catholics do not have a Catholic liturgical rite. Everything in our Liturgy have for a few lines is exactly the same as what the Orthodox say and do in their Liturgies. We don’t even edit the “Orthodox Christians” parts in the Divine Liturgy.

Anyway, we should be careful about making sweeping statements about what makes a Catholic or not. Ultimately what makes a Catholic is communion with the bishop of Rome. Communion isn’t like citizenship to a country that you cannot lose just like that. If you are born in America and lived in America all your life and married an American, you say the worst things about America and kill Americans if you want, you’re still American. Being Catholic isn’t the same way. If you are not in communion with your bishop who is in communion with the Pope, then you are not Catholic. So the question is, are the in communion? Frankly, I don’t think anyone knows, isn’t that what they are trying to resolve right now? So is it safe to say their Catholicity is questionable at best?

I’m just going by the reasoning Br. JR used a while back, in another thread. They aren’t heretics, because they haven’t subscribed to heresy, they aren’t exactly schismatics either, and they call themselves Catholic, and are actively trying to reconcile with Rome, and so they are Catholic. They are as irregular as irregular gets, but they are Catholic. They acknowledge the primacy of the papacy, and they regard Benedict XVI as the true and only Pope, which they are actually very adamant about.

 

[w_s_s]

The individual members of the SSPX are all Catholics. Whether or not the SSPX itself, as an organization is a Catholic organization, is kind of up in the air. Defacto it is not. Whether or not 1975 suppression was legal may be answered when (and if) the SSPX regularizes.

 

[Old_Salt]

The Code of Canon Law for the Latin Church says:

“can. 1248 1. The precept of participating in the Mass is satisfied by assistance at a Mass which is celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the holy day or on the evening of the preceding day.”

This means that if you go to a chapel of the SSPX on the day of precept or the evening before and attend Holy Mass, you fulfill your obligation. The SSPX celebrate in a Catholic Rite.

The PCED backs this up by stating that a Catholic may fulfill the holyday obligation by assisting at an SSPX Mass without committing a sin or incurring any penalty if done out of devotion to the usus antiquor and not out of any concious effort to seperate oneself from the Holy Father.

This would not apply to a group that is in schism.
If one is a Catholic one cannot fulfill the holyday obligation at a Mass of a group that is in schism.

 

[Marie77]

**SSPX **are still not in communion with our Pope.

The excommunication of their Bishops was lifted in hope that ongoing talks will lead to a reconcilation.
When there is any change, look to the Vatican web site for accuracy, not a blog site.
(You can find SSPX info on the Vatican web site.)

If interested in going to a EF (Tridentine/Latin) Mass, go to an FSSP (Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter) Mass.
The FSSP mission is two-fold: first, the formation and sanctification of priests in the traditional liturgy (EF Form) of the Roman rite, and secondly the pastoral deployment of priests in the service of the Church. FSSP was founded in 1988 and approved by Pope John Paul II.
If your parish priest wants to learn the EF Mass, he should contact the FSSP with permission of his Diocese Bishop.

FSSP has been on EWTN as well.

fssp.org/en/index.htm
fssp.com/press/

 

[Old_Salt]

I was addressing the initial question of this thread, which is “Is the SSPX considered a different sect”
The definitive answer from appropriate Holy See authority is, yes, they are Catholic, since both Canon Law and the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, have made clear that one may fulfill his holyday obligation at an SSPX Mass, therefore Catholic.

As to the second part of your statement, yes, many of us would love to fulfill our obligations and assist at FSSP or other Ecclesia Dei Mass’s, but our Ordinary, for whatever reason. does not allow them in our diocese and as such we have no recourse to the TLM but at SSPX Mass’s.
This is allowed by the Holy See.

NB: Many of us have petitioned the proper chain of command to ask politely for the TLM ie: Pastor/Bishop/PCED/Holy Father, and have waited for years but have recieved no redress.

 

[roadsend]

…

If interested in going to a EF (Tridentine/Latin) Mass, go to an FSSP (Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter) Mass.
The FSSP mission is two-fold: first, the formation and sanctification of priests in the traditional liturgy (EF Form) of the Roman rite, and secondly the pastoral deployment of priests in the service of the Church. FSSP was founded in 1988 and approved by Pope John Paul II.
If your parish priest wants to learn the EF Mass, he should contact the FSSP with permission of his Diocese Bishop.

FSSP has been on EWTN as well.

fssp.org/en/index.htm
fssp.com/press/

(my bolds above)
Easy to say, but there are more then 750 miles between the nearest FSSP parishes (Seattle-Sacramento) in our neck of the woods.
The largest diocese in between these points has a bishop, who appears to be somewhat less than enthusiastic toward making the TLM available to his flock.
Perhaps our next bishop will be more interested in following the wishes of the Holy Father in this matter.
The bottom line is if the diocesan bishop is an enemy of traditional liturgy, it for all practical purposes is not going to happen.

Thank God for the SSPX , whose padres provide several Traditional Masses here in Western Oregon each week and I pray for them to be regularized soon.

 

[Old_Salt]

Do you know Fr Christopher Hunter at St Thomas Becket church in Veneta Oregon?
He is my uncle.

 

[roadsend]

Do you know Fr Christopher Hunter at St Thomas Becket church in Veneta Oregon?
He is my uncle.

No. I do not know any SSPX padres and have only been to St. Thomas Becket once. It is a six hour minimum round trip drive for me to attend any TLM. I can only get to a TLM once or twice a year and the rest of the time I am stuck in the OCP liturgical wasteland.
Thank God for your uncle and all priests, everywhere, diocesan, SSPX and all others.

 

[Old_Salt]

No. I do not know any SSPX padres and have only been to St. Thomas Becket once. It is a six hour minimum round trip drive for me to attend any TLM. I can only get to a TLM once or twice a year and the rest of the time I am stuck in the OCP liturgical wasteland.
Thank God for your uncle and all priests, everywhere, diocesan, SSPX and all others.

Yes indeed thank God for all priests, Diocesan, FSSP, SSPX, religious, and every other.
Do at least have a reverent Ordinary Form Mass you can go to?
Also have you seen the 'WikiMissa" list of TLM’s in Oregon.
I’m sure you have

Oregon

Archdiocese of Portland

97106 - ROY - Saint Francis of Assisi Church 38975 NW Harrington Rd, Banks

Contact church for dates and times
Pho (503) 324-2231

Diocese (Fr Michael Vuky)

97401 - EUGENE - Saint Mary Church 1062 Charnelton Street

2nd & 4th Sundays at 3:00 PM
Pho (541) 342-1139

Diocese (Fr Liam Carey, Fr Eric Andersen)

97219 - PORTLAND - Our Lady of Fatima Church 4530 S.W. Garden Home Rd

Sun 8:30 am and 10:30 AM
Mon and Sat 9:00 AM
Pho (503) 246-6212

SSPX (Fr Eugene Heidt, SSPX)

97231 - PORTLAND - St Birgitta Church 11820 NW St Helens Rd

Sun 8:00 AM
1st Fri 7:00 PM, 1st Sat 8:00 AM
Pho (503) 286-3929 * latinmasspdx.org/

Diocese (Fr Luan Tran)

97487 - VENETA - St Thomas Becket Chapel 25269 E. Bolton Rd - EUGENE

Sun 7:15 am and 9:00 AM
Weekdays 7:15 am - Sat 8:00 am - 1st Fri 7:15 am and 7:00 pm
Pho (541) 935-1873

SSPX (Fr Daniel Hunter, SSPX; Fr Christopher Hunter, SSPX; Fr Christopher Brandler, SSPX)

Diocese of Baker

97701 - BEND - Historic St. Francis of Assisi Church - 494 Northwest Lava Road

[Temporarily suspended]
Pho (541) 382-3631

Diocese

97737 - GILCHRIST - Monastery of Annunciation Hermitage - 146640 Highway 97

Daily at 10:00 AM
Pho (541) 433-2903 Always call ahead

Diocese (Fr Arsenius Anachoreta)

97627 - KLAMATH FALLS - Saint Therese Chapel 12371 Keno Worden Rd - KENO

1st and 5th Sunday 10:30 AM (11:00 during daylight savings time)
Pho (541) 884-3158

SSPX (Fr Christopher Hunter, SSPX)

97850 - LA GRANDE - Our Lady of the Valley Church - 1002 L Avenue

Every Sunday; MWF at 12:00 PM
Pho (541) 963-7341 * ourladyofthevalleychurch.info/

Diocese (Fr Christopher C Agoha, SMMM, JCD)

 

[Marie77]

I was addressing the initial question of this thread, which is “Is the SSPX considered a different sect”
The definitive answer from appropriate Holy See authority is, yes, they are Catholic, since both Canon Law and the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, have made clear that one may fulfill his holyday obligation at an SSPX Mass, therefore Catholic.

As to the second part of your statement, yes, many of us would love to fulfill our obligations and assist at FSSP or other Ecclesia Dei Mass’s, but our Ordinary, for whatever reason. does not allow them in our diocese and as such we have no recourse to the TLM but at SSPX Mass’s.
This is allowed by the Holy See.

NB: Many of us have petitioned the proper chain of command to ask politely for the TLM ie: Pastor/Bishop/PCED/Holy Father, and have waited for years but have recieved no redress.

If there is significant interest in your Parish or in your Diocese for EF Masses, send a petition proving interest to your Bishop.
(Be sure to send open copies to the US Papal Nuncio, and the Vatican.)

 

[Old_Salt]

If there is significant interest in your Parish or in your Diocese for EF Masses, send a petition proving interest to your Bishop.
(Be sure to send open copies to the US Papal Nuncio, and the Vatican.)

Many of us [over 100] have.
Three times over three different years.
We have also sent copies to the PCED/Holy Office.
No reply.
From what I hear from many aquaintences, this is the case also in many diocese’s.
You are very fortunate to have it otherwise.
We shall continue.
Thank you very much.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m just going by the reasoning Br. JR used a while back, in another thread. They aren’t heretics, because they haven’t subscribed to heresy, they aren’t exactly schismatics either, and they call themselves Catholic, and are actively trying to reconcile with Rome, and so they are Catholic. They are as irregular as irregular gets, but they are Catholic. They acknowledge the primacy of the papacy, and they regard Benedict XVI as the true and only Pope, which they are actually very adamant about.

There are many groups trying to reconcile themselves with Rome. I don’t know, if they are actively trying to reunite, why is it taking so long? Why didn’t the accept the preamble? The Anglicans already beat them to reunion. In Filipino we have a saying, “if you really want it, you will find a way. If you really don’t want it, you will find an excuse.” So far all I’m hearing from the SSPX are excuses.