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K
Kei
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We mustn’t forget the classic Catholic both/and as well!The purpose can be “to tell God’s story of salvation” rather than simply “to tell a story that is fit for the 7 o’clock news”!
God can easily work in history in a way that tells the story of God’s salvation and is full of meaning. The life of Jesus, for instance, is full of events that, while historical, are at once very spiritually rich.
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Metis1
Guest
Does God have trouble spelling? The oldest copy of John’s gospel in our position is laden with spelling errors.The Bible has God as its author even though men wrote it.
And what about the four, what theologians call “variations”, with the Jesus’ tomb narrative whereas no two gospel accounts match.
I’m not demeaning the Bible as I literally read it every day of the week, but we have to be careful not to slip into a form of idolatry. God is not the Bible and the Bible is not God, thus it is not perfect in and of itself, and the Church has always understood this. It is a large collection of narratives about God, Jesus, and others.
Are you stereotyping me? What does this question have to do with what I posted? But to answer your question, I probably believe in Jesus much the same way you do.It is fine to ask questions but who was Jesus? Just a guy with good stories to tell?
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gama232
Guest
From the Catechism:
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture . "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69
"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."70
106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more."71
105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture . "The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit."69
"For Holy Mother Church, relying on the faith of the apostolic age, accepts as sacred and canonical the books of the Old and the New Testaments, whole and entire, with all their parts, on the grounds that, written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author, and have been handed on as such to the Church herself."70
106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. "To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more."71
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praytell
Guest
Your enthusiasm and reverence of Sacred Scripture is very commendable. If you read the next section of the Catechism, it does not state that we are to take everything as literal. Through whatever genre the book was written in, God wishes to reveal something to us. You are certainly at liberty to believe the Flood account as literal but you are not bound to do so.
109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.[75]
110 In order to discover the sacred authors’ intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. “For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression.”[76]
111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. “Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written.”
109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm, and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.[75]
110 In order to discover the sacred authors’ intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. “For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression.”[76]
111 But since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. “Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written.”
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Metis1
Guest
Exactly.If you read the next section of the Catechism, it does not state that we are to take everything as literal. Through whatever genre the book was written in, God wishes to reveal something to us.
And amongst theologians, the issue of Divine inspiration is more of a question than an answer. IOW, almost all Christian theologians agree that the scriptures are Divinely inspired in some way, but exactly in which way is really quite conjectural.
And Aquinas took this questioning to a higher level, saying that if one were to believe in literal inerrancy with the OT, then Jesus could not be regarded as being the Messiah since all the Messianic predictions haven’t been fulfilled.
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gama232
Guest
115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.
[116] The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83
[117] The spiritual sense . Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87
[119] "It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgement. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God."88
But I would not believe in the Gospel, had not the authority of the Catholic Church already moved me.89
[116] The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83
[117] The spiritual sense . Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
- The allegorical sense . We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.84
- The moral sense . The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.85
- The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge , “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86
The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87
[119] "It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, towards a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgement. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God."88
But I would not believe in the Gospel, had not the authority of the Catholic Church already moved me.89
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Tryingtobecatholic1
Guest
Is this referring to my original post or someone else?Your enthusiasm and reverence of Sacred Scripture is very commendable.
To be perfectly frank I’ve felt bad for questioning what Sacred Scripture says but I guess questioning it might actually be a good thing?
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praytell
Guest
Hi, no this wasn’t specifically to you but if you find it useful that is great. It is perfectly fine to be curious about Scripture and to ask questions. Unfortunately, it sometimes leads some to doubt if it is not done prayerfully.
Please continue to explore any areas you have questions about. It shows you have a love for the Word of God and are trying to get closer to Him. Find some good sources for reference (like this site and even this forum).
The forum is a great resource but you sometimes need to wade through side conversations to get your answer. Just be patient.
Keep seeking and you will find.
Please continue to explore any areas you have questions about. It shows you have a love for the Word of God and are trying to get closer to Him. Find some good sources for reference (like this site and even this forum).
The forum is a great resource but you sometimes need to wade through side conversations to get your answer. Just be patient.
Keep seeking and you will find.
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Metis1
Guest
“Answers In Genesis” is a terribly unreliable source as it posits as “science” that which is all too often not actually science at all. One simply cannot create their own science as that’s not how we work.
Contrary to the belief of some, the ToE simply does not in any way refute Divine creation.
Contrary to the belief of some, the ToE simply does not in any way refute Divine creation.
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TMC
Guest
Also worth noting, on this Catholic forum, that Answers in Genesis is not Catholic, rejects Catholic teaching, and is at least somewhat anti-Catholic in outlook.“Answers In Genesis” is a terribly unreliable source
J
JGD
Guest
Could you give the source where Aquinas says this. I would like to read his exact words with context.And Aquinas took this questioning to a higher level, saying that if one were to believe in literal inerrancy with the OT, then Jesus could not be regarded as being the Messiah since all the Messianic predictions haven’t been fulfilled.
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Metis1
Guest
I’m not absolutely certain that I read it in this book but I think it’s the one that’s the most likely: “History of the Catholic Church” by James Hitchcock.
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