Is the term "Protestant" derogatory?

[Cheshangle]

Depends how you view the church.

From your point of view Catholics do. But keep in mind I’m not Catholic yet.

I agree.

But I feel this thread is getting off topic, so I’m heading out.

God Bless.

As a matter of interest, are you American (of Swiss origin)?

It’s always a bit confusing when we meet “Irish guys” or “Italian guys” who turn out to be American.

 

[Cheshangle]

I spent nearly 30 years in the A/E church, as you describe yourself. I got out when I finally realized that the church’s theology was simply “anything goes”; the ordination of women as deacons and priest; the ordination of openly gay women and men priests; the ordination of women as bishops, and finally the ordination of “openly gay” women as bishops. Truth and morality is not subject to majority vote and that has proven the downfall of the ECUSA. Sins of people within a church and officially sanctioned sins of a church are simply not comparable. Your “communion” is separated theologically as far as the “east if from the west”. USA vs. Africa is one example.

What you are describing does not, thank God, apply to the CofE as I know it, though I hope we’ll have women bishops soon.

I am aware of the issues/problems facing the Episcopal Church in America, and although it is an independent church it certainly causes some worries to the Archbishop of Canterbury. Certain people are not invited to the Lambeth Conference, for example. I did have some correspondence with an American woman I met through on-line bridge. She described herself as “Anglican” and her parish was considering secession from the Episcopal Church. Initially I urged her not to, but certainly I could see her point of view. She had considered the RCC but decided that it was not for her.

My acquaintance with the Episcopal Church is limited to a few visits and services, but I have never been conscious of “downfall”. (I have, incidentally, heard a similar adjective applied to both the CofE and the Anglican Church of Australia).

The people I’ve met who have moved from the RCC to churches in the Anglican Communion are often very critical of your new church. Sometimes unfairly in my opinion.

 

[rodschmidt]

While most of them don’t call themselves Protestant, all non-Catholic Christian Churches are derivatives and variations of Martin Luther’s split-off church.

I don’t think the Anglican church followed Luther. I think Henry VIII made an independent split-off church.

The American branch of Anglican is formally called “The Protestant Episcopal Church of the United States of America.”

 

[valentino]

I don’t think the christian churches who developed after the reformation referrred to themselves as protestants.It was probably just a general term that society adopted to distinguish between Catholics and non Cathollic christian denominations.The Anglicans for instance didn’t refer to themselves as the Anglican protestant church.I personally don’t see it as derogatory and I don’t see why non Catholic christian would either.The only difference today is that some probably most would say that they were never a part of the Catholic Church.

 

[JonNC]

I don’t think the Anglican church followed Luther. I think Henry VIII made an independent split-off church.

Neither did the anabaptists, and it can be argued tha Zwingli and Calvin did not “split off” of the Lutheran reformers. Most of the modern so-called protestant churches have roots in these groups, not Lutheranism.

Jon

 

[Swiss_Guy]

As a matter of interest, are you American (of Swiss origin)?

It’s always a bit confusing when we meet “Irish guys” or “Italian guys” who turn out to be American.

Yeah, I’m American (live in Minnesota), but my ancestors are Swiss. Sorry about the confusion .

 

[Gerrybhoy1888]

Although it may be an inacurate term, I would say from my experiance, that the majority of members of the church of Scotland, church of Ireland and other prebyterian churches within the UK, describe themselves as Protestant. This is partially political as well as religious reasons though.

 

[Cheshangle]

Although it may be an inacurate term, I would say from my experiance, that the majority of members of the church of Scotland, church of Ireland and other prebyterian churches within the UK, describe themselves as Protestant. This is partially political as well as religious reasons though.

It’s a bit complex!

The Church of Ireland is not Presbyterian, it’s Anglican. It’s by far the biggest Protestant Church in the south, but in the north the Presbyterian Church is significantly bigger.

The Church of Scotland is Presbyterian. But there is a small Anglican church in Scotland, the Scottish Episcopal Church (whose adherents are sometimes called “Piscies”). The Church of Scotland is the National, but not the State Church (as the Church of England is, in England - but certainly not in Scotland). When the Queen is in Scotland she attends Church of Scotland services.

The Church in Wales (“in” but not “of”) is the Anglican church in Wales. It is neither the national, nor the state, nor the established church. Like the Church of Ireland and the Scotish Episcopal Church, it is an independent church in the Anglican Communion. Rowan Williams was previously Archbishop of Wales. He is, incidentally, not English, but Welsh born and bred and a Welsh speaker.

Whilst writing, you might know that the RC Church has separate hierarchies for Scotland and for England & Wales (the RC Church in Wales comes under England).

On Ireland neither the RC Church nor the Church of Ireland recognise the border between the north and south in their (almost identical) structures. Some dioceses and even parishes cross the border. There is just a little tension on occasion between north and south in the Church of Ireland.

 

[Cheshangle]

Yeah, I’m American (live in Minnesota), but my ancestors are Swiss. Sorry about the confusion .

Not to worry! I’m a real mixture. And my four grandparents were Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and Presbyterian.

 

[Gerrybhoy1888]

It’s a bit complex!

The Church of Ireland is not Presbyterian, it’s Anglican. It’s by far the biggest Protestant Church in the south, but in the north the Presbyterian Church is significantly bigger.

The Church of Scotland is Presbyterian. But there is a small Anglican church in Scotland, the Scottish Episcopal Church (whose adherents are sometimes called “Piscies”). The Church of Scotland is the National, but not the State Church (as the Church of England is, in England - but certainly not in Scotland). When the Queen is in Scotland she attends Church of Scotland services.

The Church in Wales (“in” but not “of”) is the Anglican church in Wales. It is neither the national, nor the state, nor the established church. Like the Church of Ireland and the Scotish Episcopal Church, it is an independent church in the Anglican Communion. Rowan Williams was previously Archbishop of Wales. He is, incidentally, not English, but Welsh born and bred and a Welsh speaker.

Whilst writing, you might know that the RC Church has separate hierarchies for Scotland and for England & Wales (the RC Church in Wales comes under England).

On Ireland neither the RC Church nor the Church of Ireland recognise the border between the north and south in their (almost identical) structures. Some dioceses and even parishes cross the border. There is just a little tension on occasion between north and south in the Church of Ireland.

So would you class the Anglican church as being a Protestant church?

I always considered Anglican/Episcopalian to be closer to the Catholic church than to presbyterian churches that I would class as Protestant.

 

[Cheshangle]

So would you class the Anglican church as being a Protestant church?

I always considered Anglican/Episcopalian to be closer to the Catholic church than to presbyterian churches that I would class as Protestant.

i) Yes. But catholic too.

ii) Again, I agree, and I mentioned elswhere that I have been accused by a Presbyterian of being a “watered down catholic” which, I suppose, I am.

 

[Gerrybhoy1888]

i) Yes. But catholic too.

ii) Again, I agree, and I mentioned elswhere that I have been accused by a Presbyterian of being a “watered down catholic” which, I suppose, I am.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

“watered down catholic” is a bit harsh. It wasn’t the Rev. Paisley that called you that was it?

 

[Cheshangle]

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

“watered down catholic” is a bit harsh. It wasn’t the Rev. Paisley that called you that was it?

No, it was a gloomy Australian, an “elder”. He was in the same bridge club and was threatened with expulsion because of his foul language and short temper.

 

[Christalone]

IMHO,No more so than romanist?

 

[Cheshangle]

Thus they are protesting something, namely, that the Church is visible and authoritative. Thus they are Protestant.

When the Pope visited Britain last year, various people did protest. Thus did not include Anglicans, who welcomed him. In a nearby parish, the CofE church raised more money for his visit than the neighbouring RC church did. In our parish we prayed for the success of his visit. Our prayers were answered.

Hence they are protesting that everyone else (especially the Catholic Church) is as purely Christian as they are, thus they are Protestant.

 

[Cheshangle]

IMHO,No more so than romanist?

I don’t use the term “Romanist”, not “The Church of Rome”, which is occasionally still used (not sure if it’s offensive or not).

Many but not all (Roman) Catholics seem to find the term “Roman Catholic” offensive, so although it’s standard Anglican parlance, I try to be aware of that particular sensitivity.

 

[PJM]

=NFrancis;8093533]Is it bad to use the term “Protestant”? On another thread someone said that it was. I have never thought of it as such and am wondering if I should continue using the term. If it is derogatory should I use non-Catholic Christians instead or something else?

GOSH, I don’t think so. It identifies a gendra of beliefs that on many points, oppose what we Catholics hold as the Singale Truth [supported by Jesus and the Bible.] BUT that ought not be considered in any way derogatory.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Izdaari]

If I say I’m Protestant, what I mean is I’m “a Christian who is not Catholic or Orthodox”, and that’s all. If that’s what’s meant, it’s simply descriptive and not derogatory at all.

While I acknowledge that Catholics and Orthodox each get some things more right than we Protestants, I don’t see either tradition as being superior overall, and I don’t believe any of the three traditions has all the answers.

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by Krakatoa
While most of them don’t call themselves Protestant, all non-Catholic Christian Churches are derivatives and variations of Martin Luther’s split-off church.

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Jons reply:

Certainly not. In fact, almost no protestant churches have “spun off” of Lutheranism… Clearly not Zwingli or Calvin, and undoubtedly not the anabaptists.

Jon **

Hi Jon,

Perhaps the meaning of the post you replied to meant to imply “as a result of” rather then an actual spin off?

Certainly Luthers widely known desent and success supplied motive and opportunity for other differeing beliefs?

God Bless,
Pat

 

[JonNC]

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Hi Jon,

Perhaps the meaning of the post you replied to meant to imply “as a result of” rather then an actual spin off?

Certainly Luthers widely known desent and success supplied motive and opportunity for other differeing beliefs?

God Bless,
Pat***

I wouldn’t dispute that, Pat.

Jon