Is the term "Roman Catholic Church" offensive?

[Drawmack]

Nope.

And from the poll results to date, 25% of the respondents believe that the term is derogatory…at least when used by non-Catholics to minimize the Catholic Church’s primacy in the Christian world.

which means that 75% don’t

 

[Drawmack]

Is it possible that Al Sharpton and others in the African American community were seeking to be offended when in Hip Hop culture the “n” word is used as the equivalent of the word “dude”?

Just because most people use a word in a good and non-offensive way doesn’t take away its negative connotations. In theology the precise wording of things is very important. According to St. Augustine a sign that the Church is True is that it is called Catholic and that no heretic would dare point to their own heretical church as Catholic when asked for directions to the nearby Catholic Church. Adding the word “Roman” in front of it changes the whole meaning and makes it purely sectarian or concerning a specific ethnic group of believers. It implies there is a Baptist Catholic Church, Methodist Catholic Church, Lutheran Catholic Church, Anglican Catholic Church, Catholic Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-day Saints, etc. and etc. It removes universality from the only one Church that Christ founded as the way, the truth, and the life.

I’m sorry but, you’re simply not correct here. I live in an area where various Rites are quite prevalent. We have many Byzantine, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc churches in the city I live in and it’s sister city to the south. All of these churches use the word Catholic on their signs. So saying Roman is simply a way to identify the Rite. It might not be the absolutely correct way, but it is a way which most people understand – if you really want to take issue with it then tell Roman Catholic churches to stop putting that name on their signs. People are going to be prone to refer to a church, any church, as whatever that church puts on their sign.

(Aside: church is consistently used above to refer to buildings and hence is not capitalized.)

 

[Thing]

Who is this they you speak of? I say Roman Catholic to designate the Rite just like I say Byzantine, etc. I just leave out the word Rite. Personally, I just don’t see the need for the word Rite to be there it would be like Lutherans insisting that you call them the Lutheran Denomination and being offended when you left our the word Denomination.

Roman never refered to a rite. There is the Latin rite. Roman was used to drive a wedge between English Catholics and English protestants; in the hope that all true Englishmen would be loyal to their own English King instead of being loyal to the Pope in Rome. ‘Roman’ designated where one’s loyalties lay and is different to describing the Church by its different rites, as all rites in the Catholic Church are loyal to the Pope in Rome and so could also by called Roman.

 

[Drawmack]

What I find hard to believe is people that call an organization, or church in this case, by a title that that organization or church does not go by. “Roman” is simply not in the name of the Catholic Church. Why would you insist on using the wrong name of something?

So, if I post a picture of a sign outside of a church that identifies that church as Roman Catholic then you’ll stop being offended because people use the term?

 

[Drawmack]

There is no church called “Roman Catholic” so why use the term at all?

Yes there are, is my word enough or would you like a picture?

 

[Drawmack]

Roman never refered to a rite. There is the Latin rite. Roman was used to drive a wedge between English Catholics and English protestants; in the hope that all true Englishmen would be loyal to their own English King instead of being loyal to the Pope in Rome. ‘Roman’ designated where one’s loyalties lay and is different to describing the Church by its different rites, as all rites in the Catholic Church are loyal to the Pope in Rome and so could also by called Roman.

I’m telling you how it is used, but the Catholic churches, in this area. They are referred to, on their signs – that they paid for – as Church and consistently Roman is used for the name of the Rite. This could be so there’s not confusion about speaking Latin in Mass and being Latin Rite but it doesn’t change the fact that the church four blocks from where I am sitting has the words St. Joseph’s Roman Catholic Church on their sign by the road. Why would I refer to that church as anything other than what is on their sign?

 

[Havard]

My diocese’s web site labels itself as the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of San Francisco. I grew up with that.

 

[Thing]

I’m telling you how it is used, but the Catholic churches, in this area. They are referred to, on their signs – that they paid for – as Church and consistently Roman is used for the name of the Rite. This could be so there’s not confusion about speaking Latin in Mass and being Latin Rite but it doesn’t change the fact that the church four blocks from where I am sitting has the words St. Joseph’s Roman Catholic Church on their sign by the road. Why would I refer to that church as anything other than what is on their sign?

Roman is not a rite. The sign does not say Roman Rite because there never was a Roman Rite. Roman in that case is simply telling you that it is the Catholic Church. 40% of Americans are of Irish descent and Roman Catholic, RC, is a uniquely English and Irish thing, - simply because thats where it started in the 16th century.
If your average Joe Soap confuses Roman Catholic with Latin Rite then he is easily set straight by telling him that ‘they are not the same thing’.

 

[Thing]

Ha… this is great fun.
Roman Catholic; coined first by protestants in the 16th century as a divisive insult.
Roman Catholic; reminted by the Irish Bishops later as meaning ‘loyalty to the Pope’.
Roman Rite; The rite used in the Diocese of Rome, in Italy, and copied generally by many.
Latin Rite; Refers to the Whole Catholic Church in the Western World.
A Roman Catholic Church; refers to the Catholic Church, [synonyms] .
Catholic Church; refers to the Catholic Church.

 

[Lepanto]

When you want to know a person’s name, you don’t ask someone else, you ask the person in question.

So again I ask, where in the catechism (which has a section wherein the Church talks about herself) does she ever refer to herself as the "Roman Catholic Church?

 

[Havard]

When you want to know a person’s name, you don’t ask someone else, you ask the person in question.

So again I ask, where in the catechism (which has a section wherein the Church talks about herself) does she ever refer to herself as the "Roman Catholic Church?

My archdiocese calls itself a Roman Catholic Archdiocese. Cardinal Levada, the current Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was our last Archbishop… if it was problematic that his archdiocese refers to itself as Roman Catholic, wouldn’t he know about it?

Edit: My assumption would be that although “Roman Catholic” is not necessarily preferred, it at least appears to be accepted by the Magisterium.

 

[Lepanto]

My archdiocese calls itself a Roman Catholic Archdiocese.

With all due respect, an archdiocese does not speak for the Church universal. Nor does my local Catholic parish, which lists itself as “Roman Catholic” in its bulletin.

Both are incorrect.

Again, what does the catechism say?

 

[Havard]

I didn’t say it did.

What I said was, if the term “Roman Catholic” was an unacceptable label, Cardinal Levada would surely know. His Eminence never mentioned it being problematic as Archbishop, and he hasn’t mentioned it being questionable since being elevated to Cardinal or Prefect.

Therefore I think it is reasonable to assume tacit acceptance of the term’s usage, if one of the highest ranking members of the Roman Curia doesn’t think it’s worth correcting.

 

[Axion]

Many Parishes, Dioceses and schools are legally incorporated. Previously in the British Empire and some other countries, when Catholic organisations entered legal contracts, they HAD to call themselves “Roman Catholic” by law. This is the origin of many of the “Roman Catholic” usages that still linger on in places. They are not a sign that this is the proper name of the Church.

Of course Roman Catholic is an oxymoron. “Catholic” means universal. So what it is actually saying is the “roman” universal church.

The usage is meant to imply that there are more than one Catholic Church, which is why it was invented. When the reformation was imposed in England, most people didn’t want to change their religion, so they were told that that the new faith was the real “catholic” faith, and the faith of their fathers was “Roman” and a corrupt introduction. The peole said “we are Catholics” and the protestants said. “Yes. So are we.”

Roman Catholic is also a term meant to imply foreigness and strangeness. As in “they’re ROMAN catholics”. They’re not really normal British/American/Australian. They’re some strange group of foreigners.

To make the point: If we talked about say, the “German Baptist Church” instead of just the “Baptist Church” Would that make ordinary Britons/Americans more or less likely to join it?

 

[Lepanto]

I didn’t say it did.

What I said was, if the term “Roman Catholic” was an unacceptable label, Cardinal Levada would surely know. His Eminence never mentioned it being problematic as Archbishop, and he hasn’t mentioned it being questionable since being elevated to Cardinal or Prefect.

Therefore I think it is reasonable to assume tacit acceptance of the term’s usage, if one of the highest ranking members of the Roman Curia doesn’t think it’s worth correcting.

Basing your claim on what a cardinal says (the argument from authority) does not work here because not everything that a pope says is infallible, let alone a cardinal.

Cardinal Levada seems to be speaking out of habit or out of a local custom, certainly not with canonical precision.

And in any case, the authority of the catechism far outweighs the authority of a lone cardinal.

 

[Havard]

Lepanto, the question was whether the term “Roman Catholic Church” is an offensive term, not whether it is the officially adopted term, or even the preferred term.

Has anyone canonically proclaimed that it is an offensive, or even inappropriate term? Not being aware of any canonical statements on the issue, I submitted evidence that a central member of the Curia likely does not have a problem with the term’s appropriateness as a label for the Church. In absence of definitive statement, evidence of custom is relevant.

If you’re aware of a definitive canonical statement, by all means I’d love know. Otherwise, I am inclined to believe that the term “Roman Catholic” is tacitly accepted.

 

[Drawmack]

Roman is not a rite. The sign does not say Roman Rite because there never was a Roman Rite. Roman in that case is simply telling you that it is the Catholic Church. 40% of Americans are of Irish descent and Roman Catholic, RC, is a uniquely English and Irish thing, - simply because thats where it started in the 16th century.
If your average Joe Soap confuses Roman Catholic with Latin Rite then he is easily set straight by telling him that ‘they are not the same thing’.

I’m sorry but if you really expect me to accept that 40% of Americans are of Irish descent you’ll have to give me a reputable source for that. I’m not saying you’re wrong it just seems a bit much, depending on how much Irish someone has to have in them to be counted as of Irish descent.

 

[Drawmack]

Many Parishes, Dioceses and schools are legally incorporated. Previously in the British Empire and some other countries, when Catholic organisations entered legal contracts, they HAD to call themselves “Roman Catholic” by law. This is the origin of many of the “Roman Catholic” usages that still linger on in places. They are not a sign that this is the proper name of the Church.

Of course Roman Catholic is an oxymoron. “Catholic” means universal. So what it is actually saying is the “roman” universal church.

The usage is meant to imply that there are more than one Catholic Church, which is why it was invented. When the reformation was imposed in England, most people didn’t want to change their religion, so they were told that that the new faith was the real “catholic” faith, and the faith of their fathers was “Roman” and a corrupt introduction. The peole said “we are Catholics” and the protestants said. “Yes. So are we.”

Roman Catholic is also a term meant to imply foreigness and strangeness. As in “they’re ROMAN catholics”. They’re not really normal British/American/Australian. They’re some strange group of foreigners.

To make the point: If we talked about say, the “German Baptist Church” instead of just the “Baptist Church” Would that make ordinary Britons/Americans more or less likely to join it?

Well, considering that many of the churches in my local area were founded by St. John Von Nueman (my spelling may be incorrect) in the 1800’s this argument does not apply around here. Also, since his sur name has a Von in front of it he was of German descent and his family were land owners there. This man really gave up a lot to come to America and travel around on a donkey founding churches.

 

[Holly3278]

I do find it offensive when non-Catholics refer to all Catholics as Roman Catholics cause not all Catholics are Roman Catholics. However, if they’re referring to me, I don’t find it offensive because I am Roman Catholic.

 

[Drawmack]

I do find it offensive when non-Catholics refer to all Catholics as Roman Catholics cause not all Catholics are Roman Catholics. However, if they’re referring to me, I don’t find it offensive because I am Roman Catholic.

This is actually a good point. I use the term Roman Catholic to signify that I’m talking about things as they are practiced in Rite practiced by the Bishop of Rome. For example, the Byzantine Rite is pretty big in my area and they practice Baptism, First Communion, and Confirmation all in infancy which, IMHO, is a huge difference. So, I feel it is important to signify which Rite I am talking about. Now, also, most people I talk to wouldn’t realize what I meant by Latin Rite. So, why is it offensive for me to say Roman Catholic in this context?