Is The Theory of Evolution mandatory for the modern worldview

[The_Barbarian]

And the immediate cry of “abiogenesis has nothing to with evolution” echoes throughout the land.

So does “Jesus is Lord.” The fact that a lot of people know it, does not make it false. In fact, evolutionary theory makes no claims whatever about abiogenesis. Darwin made no claims about the origin of life, other than to assert that God did it.

Nonsense. And more propaganda.

It’s quite true. You could read it for yourself, if you were the kind to check facts.

The Theory of Evolution is the comfort of the atheist, free thinker, bright, humanist, Leftist and Marxist, who all worship man instead of God.

Sounds a bit paranoid. And entirely opposed to the magisterium.

Yes, textbook evolution puts its faith in man, not God. It has led to the forced sterilization of individuals deemed “unfit” and who would contaminate the gene pool.

Rather absurd, considering that went on long before we knew anything at all about evolution. Be honest with yourself, at least, ed.

The modern worldview requires that we all look at ourselves as just animals. But this is an invitation to anarchy. Everyone going in their own direction means very little cooperation. Evolution provides the necessary source of all life, without God, so that sin can be justified. “Nobody’s gonna tell me what ta do!”

You think that’s what evolutionary theory is about? Honestly? C’mon ed. Even you know better than that.

The road to destruction is wide.

Your particular path on that road is “falsewitness freeway.”

 

[edwest2]

Have you read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins? I’m certain that you’ve read the quote that evolution makes one an intellectually fulfilled atheist.

God bless,
Ed

 

[The_Barbarian]

Dawkins thinks that almost everything makes one an intellectually fulfilled atheist. He’s a dogmatic atheist.

Not surprisingly, he’s pretty much aligned with the more dogmatic creationists.

They both desperately want science to be incompatible with God.

Pray for them.

 

[edwest2]

I regard people as individuals, not members of monolithic groups; all the same like cookie cutter creations. All people are individuals even if they belong to this group or that. That’s how we’ll be judged, as individuals.

God bless,
Ed

 

[The_Barbarian]

Regrettably, some fall into groupthink. They may be individuals, but often dogmatic people act as though they were not.

 

[The_Barbarian]

If consciousness is not the result of physical processes but nonetheless exists it has a great deal to say about human evolution. It says that man is not the product of mere physical processes, as Darwinists like to imply.

You still don’t get it. Nothing in Darwinian theory says that man is the product of mere physical processes. Nor is it something Darwinians “like to imply.”

But you already know that, don’t you?

 

[elt1956]

Hello. Am new to the forum and have read and scanned several posts regarding evolution and creationism. I have only a couple of things to say about the argument:

1. What one wants to see/understand will be understood. What one does not want to see/understand will not be understood.
2. Once we begin judging (anything/anyone), we stop learning.

 

[The_Barbarian]

1. Once we begin judging (anything/anyone), we stop learning.

In science, until we have drawn conclusions from the evidence, we have learned nothing at all. However, in science, all conclusions are provisional on new evidence, and are changed when new evidence so indicates.

 

[Memaw]

What a bunch of baloney guys! This constant pro-evolution nonsense makes me weep inside at the incredible job Darwin and his like have done to convince the world that an anti-Catholic and anti-God minimum evidence theory it true! Have you NEVER questioned evolution? Have you never ONCE thought in your minds that perhaps evolution is a clever ploy to pull Catholics from the Church? Because it is!

I earnestly suggest you all read this: The Death of Evolution

It will open your eyes to the absurdity of evolution, and it’s the total lack of evidence it holds. HEAR THIS! The pro-evolution scientist want with all their hearts for evolution to be true, as it makes Man an animal, and makes Our Blessed Mother, and Our Lord’s ancestors creatures!

Our world is not billions of years old, and the idea that evolution created our titanic mountains and vast plains is dead wrong.

I speak vehemently about this because evolution has already claimed so many victims in the secular world, but has even claimed victims in the people of the Church, and many of them!

Consider this:

• Evolution says the earth is billions of years old, and that man existed well after the dinosaurs, however there are fossils of a footprint of a man directly embedded in a dinosaur’s footprint, that prove man’s coexistence with dinosaurs.

• The creators of evolution, and especially the promoters have falsified evidence and jumped to ridiculous conclusions because they are NOT simply searching for the truth, they WANT the truth to be evolution, and they won’t rest until everyone believes in it.

• People like Teilhard de Chardin created and promoted the theory of evolution (without evidence) with the idea in mind that evolution was more then just physical, but an evolution of mind and body and soul to the point where everything would be beyond the physical. (Need to check that)

• Evolution is the primary tool of atheist to support atheism. And in fact, that’s what it is, an anti-Catholic theory designed to overthrow Catholic thought, reason and dignity by making us animals.

• Very little evidence exist to support evolution, Horse breeders can breed excellent horses, but eventually run into a block where the horses can’t get any better, they do not “evolve” into better and better horses, they just stop.

• EVOLUTION DENYS THE 2ND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS. It also offends reason, and logical sensibilities, if you cannot see through evolution, READ MORE!

• Why do we have bones of very unique dinosaurs, but NO transitional bones?

• Why do the layers of rock in the grand canyon vary hugely in age, with very often (and not just in the GC) quite young layers of rock are below old layers, and vice versa!

• Why do chimps have such similar chromosomes? Because chromosomes tell the matter what the body looks like in the end, so if they didn’t have such similar chromosomes, they wouldn’t look at all like chimps!

It’s a lie, a huge one, and something that will be fought for sure. Read the book, look this stuff up. Don’t believe the scientist who say evolution is true, while denying the obvious truth of Christ and the Church.

That is all…

AMEN,

I heard a story once when God and a scientist were having a discussion about the beginning of man. God said, " I made Man out of nothing." The scientist said, “Oh, I can do that too.” God said, “Oh really, show ME.” The scientist said, “OK, lets go back to the beginning,” and they did. The scientist bent over to pick up some dirt, and GOD said," Oh NO!, get your own."

My Mom used to say that any scientist that thinks he can explain the MYSTERY of God’s creation, has ‘rocks’ in his head. God did it, I believe it, that settles it!

 

[Memaw]

Hello. Am new to the forum and have read and scanned several posts regarding evolution and creationism. I have only a couple of things to say about the argument:

1. What one wants to see/understand will be understood. What one does not want to see/understand will not be understood.
2. Once we begin judging (anything/anyone), we stop learning.

NONSENSE!!
Just because we don’t agree with someone, doesn’t mean we are judging them, If that were true we would fall for any ole line that comes along. Once we stop trusting GOD, we get stupid. Sometimes really stupid, and think we know more than GOD, or worse yet, try to tell HIM, HE doesn’t exist!!

 

[Memaw]

Odd then, that two Christians first discovered it. And odd that Pope Benedict considers common descent to be virtually certain. But maybe you understand theology more fully than he does.

I hereby invoke Godwin’s law. I’m sure there have been some wonderfully good atheists. Don’t see a point, though.

Barbarian asks:
Are you making the distinction between the sort of souls animals have and the immortal soul in humans? If so, then it follows that an immortal soul is not necessary for consciousness, since apes manifestly have consciousness.

If the soul is there at conception, then that is true, since there is no functional nervous system to have consciousness.

On what basis do you make that assumption? And why not before death?

When Pope John Paul II declared in a public audience in 1990 that ‘also the animals possess a soul and men must love and feel solidarity with our smaller brethren’ some people must have thought this was a new teaching, unaware of the Holy Father’s scholarly familiarity with the authentic Hebrew texts. When he went on to state that all animals are ‘fruit of the creative action of the Holy Spirit and merit respect’ and that they are ‘as near to God as men are’, animal lovers in the audience were ecstatic! The Pope mentions the special relationship of mankind with God as being created in His image and likeness. ‘However,’ he goes on ‘other texts state that animals have the breath of life and were given it by God. In this respect, man, created by the hand of God, is identical with all other living creatures. And so in Psalm 104 there is no distinction between man and beasts when it reads, addressing God: " … Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth." The existence therefore,’ the Holy Father reminds us, 'of all living creatures depends on the living spirit/breath of God that not only creates but also sustains and renews the face of the earth.'
all-creatures.org/ca/ark-186soul.html

Nothing says it has to be continuously upward. In fact, there is no “upward” in evolution. Just more or less fit.

Actually, most of them don’t do anything at all. You and I almost certainly have several.

A few are bad, and a very few are useful. Natural selection sorts them out.

If thats true, then WHY after all these billions of years aren’t we nearly perfect. Seems to me with all the evil, sin, violence, wars drugs, gangs, school shootings, diseases, (Cancer, AIDS, new deadly viruses, etc, ) proves that natural selection isn’t working.

 

[The_Barbarian]

Worth debunking this anti-Catholic nonsense one more time:

It will open your eyes to the absurdity of evolution, and it’s the total lack of evidence it holds. HEAR THIS! The pro-evolution scientist want with all their hearts for evolution to be true, as it makes Man an animal, and makes Our Blessed Mother, and Our Lord’s ancestors creatures!

We are animals. Primates. But nothing in science says that’s all we are. And only God is not a creature. All the rest of us are created. For a Catholic, we are all creatures.

Our world is not billions of years old, and the idea that evolution created our titanic mountains and vast plains is dead wrong.

Physics and geology has shown that it is indeed billions of years old, and the processes by which the mountains and plains were made continue today, and can be observed and measured.

I speak vehemently about this because evolution has already claimed so many victims in the secular world, but has even claimed victims in the people of the Church, and many of them!

Truth is not the enemy. If you are a Christian, particularly if you are a Catholic, you should never fear the truth.

Consider this:

• Evolution says the earth is billions of years old, and that man existed well after the dinosaurs, however there are fossils of a footprint of a man directly embedded in a dinosaur’s footprint, that prove man’s coexistence with dinosaurs.

Ironically, these faked “tracks” were debunked by young earth creationists. Even the Institute for Creation Research has concluded that they are more damaging than helpful to creationism.

• The creators of evolution,

Creator. There is only one God.

and especially the promoters have falsified evidence and jumped to ridiculous conclusions because they are NOT simply searching for the truth, they WANT the truth to be evolution, and they won’t rest until everyone believes in it.

Unfortunately, as you see from your tracks, it’s creationists who have falsified evidence.

• People like Teilhard de Chardin…

His ideas are not part of evolutionary theory.

Evolution is the primary tool of atheist to support atheism.

Odd then, that Pope Benedict XVI has endorsed it.

And in fact, that’s what it is, an anti-Catholic theory designed to overthrow Catholic thought, reason and dignity by making us animals.

The Pope is anti-Catholic? You seriously want us to believe that?

Very little evidence exist to support evolution,

Other than genetics, observed macroevolution, nested hierarchy of taxa, fossil record, and many other things. You need to learn a little about the issue.

Horse breeders can breed excellent horses, but eventually run into a block where the horses can’t get any better, they do not “evolve” into better and better horses, they just stop.

Odd then, that horses are (for example) getting faster.

EVOLUTION DENYS THE 2ND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS.

Sounds interesting. Let’s see the numbers. My guess is you just made that up because it sounds impressive to you. But without any calculations, it’s just another creationist scam.

Why do we have bones of very unique dinosaurs, but NO transitional bones?

Would you consider Archaeopteryx a dinosaur or a bird? List the characteristics that made you think so. Then we’ll examine the evidence and see.

Why do the layers of rock in the grand canyon vary hugely in age,

Lots of layers, each one older than the one above.

with very often (and not just in the GC) quite young layers of rock are below old layers, and vice versa!

You think geologists don’t know what folding and overthrusts are? Learn about it here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust_fault
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fold_(geology

Why do chimps have such similar chromosomes?

Because we are closely related to them. They have one more chromosome than we do, due to a fusion. One of ours looks almost exactly like two of theirs, right down to the telemere remnants at the fusion site:
gate.net/~rwms/hum_ape_chrom.html

It’s a lie, a huge one, and something that will be fought for sure. Read the book, look this stuff up. Don’t believe the scientist who say evolution is true, while denying the obvious truth of Christ and the Church.

You are rebelling against the teaching of the Church, for whatever reason it might be. If you are a Catholic, you must accept that evolution is consistent with our faith. You don’t have to accept it as true, but you may not spread such dishonesties about it.

 

[rossum]

If thats true, then WHY after all these billions of years aren’t we nearly perfect.

Define “perfect”. Does “perfect” require a large brain? If so then we have a much larger brain than the original primitive life on earth, which had one cell an no brain at all. Does “perfect” require having a soul? If so then natural selection is not relevant since souls do not evolve and are not subject to natural selecion.

Seems to me with all the evil, sin, violence, wars drugs, gangs, school shootings, diseases, (Cancer, AIDS, new deadly viruses, etc, ) proves that natural selection isn’t working.

Why? AIDS evolved from a Simian retrovirus - natural selection has done very well by the AIDS virus as there are a lot more copies of it around now than there used to be. Evolution describes the world, and natural selection is part of that description. Evolution is not a theory of morals, it does not define “sin”, “evil”, good" or anything else in the moral universe. Just like the theory of gravitation or the theory of fluid flow, the theory of evolution is a scientific theory with no moral implications. It describes how the world is, not how the world should be.

rossum

 

[drpmjhess]

My Mom used to say that any scientist that thinks he can explain the MYSTERY of God’s creation, has ‘rocks’ in his head. God did it, I believe it, that settles it!

God did what?

 

[drpmjhess]

AMEN, My Mom used to say that any scientist that thinks he can explain the MYSTERY of God’s creation, has ‘rocks’ in his head. God did it, I believe it, that settles it!

Memaw, my last message was sent before I could elaborate.

Although I agree with your mother’s implied claim about creation, she was no doubt not a scientist, if she could make that stunningly simplistic statement about scientists having rocks in their head. I have heard some irritated scientists make the same unkind claim about other uneducated people, but it doesn’t help the discussion on either side.

My questions to you and your mother (I presume of blessed memory) are three:

(1) When you say “God did it,” what precisely are you talking about? God causes objects to fall to the ground? God causes water to freeze at 0 degrees? God causes flowers to respond to sunlight?

(2) Do you and your mother allow for secondary causes, or is God immediately and laboriously involved in every single fluctuation of every quantum of energy in the universe?

(3) Which scientists claim to explain away the mystery of the universe? Is a chemist who studies the chemical reactions leading to the hardening of concrete explaining the mystery of God’s creation? Is an astronomer who studies the formation and death of stars explaining the mystery of God’s creation? Is a cosmologist who studies the mathematics of the Big Bang explaining the mystery of God’s creation? Is a biologist who studies speciation in Galapagos Darwin finches explaining the mystery of God’s creation?

I’m merely trying to solicit more detail from you in order to understand your extraordinarily sweeping generalization.

Petrus

 

[edwest2]

You still don’t get it. Nothing in Darwinian theory says that man is the product of mere physical processes. Nor is it something Darwinians “like to imply.”

But you already know that, don’t you?

That is a false statement. It is why Pope Benedict was compelled to state: “We are not some casual, meaningless product of evolution.” It is why Catholics are taught not to believe in atheistic evolution. Get it straight: textbook evolution tells everyone that evolution works entirely on its own with no outside (supernatural) intervention of any kind.

God bless,
Ed

 

[The_Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
You still don’t get it. Nothing in Darwinian theory says that man is the product of mere physical processes. Nor is it something Darwinians “like to imply.”

But you already know that, don’t you?

That is a false statement.

It’s quite true. It’s why you will not present any evidence that evolutionary theory says such a thing. You already know that it’s not part of the theory.

It is why Pope Benedict was compelled to state: “We are not some casual, meaningless product of evolution.”

In other words, he accepts evolutionary theory, because it makes no such claims. That’s why he says it’s “virtually certain.”

It is why Catholics are taught not to believe in atheistic evolution. Get it straight: textbook evolution tells everyone that evolution works entirely on its own with no outside (supernatural) intervention of any kind.

Nope. Says nothing at all about that. You just made that up. Science can neither support nor deny God. It could, for example mean that God moves every single quark personally to make a consistent universe, the workings of which can be predicted and explained by science. Science would be fine with that.

It’s why the Pope accepts the fact of evolution. Science in general and evolution in particular are in no way contradictory to the Church.

 

[Memaw]

God did what?

HE created!! All of it.

 

[Memaw]

Define “perfect”. Does “perfect” require a large brain? If so then we have a much larger brain than the original primitive life on earth, which had one cell an no brain at all. Does “perfect” require having a soul? If so then natural selection is not relevant since souls do not evolve and are not subject to natural selecion.

Why? AIDS evolved from a Simian retrovirus - natural selection has done very well by the AIDS virus as there are a lot more copies of it around now than there used to be. Evolution describes the world, and natural selection is part of that description. Evolution is not a theory of morals, it does not define “sin”, “evil”, good" or anything else in the moral universe. Just like the theory of gravitation or the theory of fluid flow, the theory of evolution is a scientific theory with no moral implications. It describes how the world is, not how the world should be.

rossum

Ask Barbarian, hes the one that said it.

NO ONE can ever explain how the body (and the mind) and soul all work together. It is a mystery that only God can explain. Facinating as it all may be it is still a great “mystery”. How do you explain miracles, and they really do happen. Just go to Lourdes and see for yourself.

 

[drpmjhess]

HE created!! All of it.

Of course, but you offer no details. How did God create it? When? By what method(s)? Your raw assertion is compatible with Catholic doctrine, but in no way displaces scientific investigation.