Is The Theory of Evolution mandatory for the modern worldview

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It sounds to me as if he has got a garbled version of the strong anthropomorphic principle. The earth’s orbit around the sun is elliptical, and its distance from the sun varies by a great deal more than ten miles each year. If he wants to use science to argue the likelihood of God’s existence, he should at least try reading something like the physicist Paul Davies’ book
first. (“The Mind of God”). Or John Polkinghorne, for that matter (another welll known physicist). Garbled rubbish only gives atheists the ammunition they need.
Quite right, mathematician. I don’t know how anyone acquainted with mathematics could derive that ten mile figure!

You are right that a sloppy rush to the anthropic principle is very off-putting to atheists. Even among cosmologists there is debate: Peter Ward and Don Brownlee argue in Rare Earths that life is probably much less abundant in the universe than we have thought. However, Joel Primack pointed out at the Hawaii conference on evolution at which I spoke in January that their methodology may lead them to a more pessimistic conclusion than is warranted. Even if only one star system per galaxy holds a life-bearing planet, that leaves a hundred billion such possible planets in the known universe.

The fact that we haven’t encountered such life yet is not surprising considering the vastness of the universe. Intelligent life would not evolve at the same rate on different planets; some extraterrestrial species may have reached a high state of civilization and then been extinguished millions of years ago, so we will never know that they and their art and science and theology ever existed. That is, we will only find out about them eschatologically.

Petrus
 
He can’t be that much of a scientist if he doesn’t even know that the earth’s orbit around the sun is elliptical. In fact I would say he would have to be a complete fraudster to come up with that.
I’d like to know the name of this “fraudster” as you call him. There are many credible scientists working on issues surrounding the anthropic principle, but you are right that there is also a lot of nonsense. Excellent places to start are John Polkinghorne, Arthur Peacocke, Paul Davies, George Ellis, and the five-volume CTNS-Vatican series edited by Robert Russell.

Petrus
 
All planetary orbits are elliptical, but Earth’s is less elliptical than some. This means that the variation in climate is almost entirely due to the tilt of the Earth, rather than the distance from the Sun. However, it is not an argument for the anthropic principle, since life adapts nicely to such cycles, and would surely adapt to seasons based on distance as well as to seasons based on tilt.
 
The sun is approx. 93 Million miles from Earth. If the Earth was just 10 miles closer to the sun, we would burn up, life could NOT exist. and if we were just 10 miles farther away from the sun,we would freeze. NOW just WHO do you suppose put us and keeps us in the exact spot we need to sustain life here. 10 miles, out of 93 million, hardly seems significant.but it IS. Science, as smart as it is, has never proven that there is life of ANY kind on any other planet besides ours. WHY, tell me why, if you can. Since we seem to have an abundance of varities of life on Earth, why didn’t the same big bang have any effect any other planet. Are we that important to SOMEONE???
PHILIPP: Thank you Memaw. Rather “well designed” placement if you ask anyone who believes in Christ and the church fathers and Genesis 1-11. But of course not the ET’s and TE’s on this thread. It all happened by chance OR God did it over billions of years. Just how contradictory and rediculous are these two opposing theories of evolution? There is a fantastic gap–where’s the truth squad? Help!

This placement and the predominance of evidence supports ID many logarithmic scales higher than than ET-type science promotes without God; and, the wasteful and deceptive efforts like modernists theologians, Barbarian, Phil Vaz perform on this thread for TE.

REGARDING prints in the Paluxy river: Take a quick look at this web site for the molding and casting of the Taylor trail fossil human and dinosaur footprints together
mtblanco.com/MtBlancoNews/2007/TaylorTrailCast.html The paleontologist is Joe Taylor; no relation to the Taylor who helped discover the trail. These prints are the ones that will eventually be in many museums nationwide.

After looking at the above webstie at least read the reviews regarding the late philosopher Dr. Larry Azar book, “Evolution and other fairy tales” on:
www.kolbecenter.org

Fr. Baker of Homoletic review agrees with Dr. Azar; it’s the best book he has read in 2007. I pray that all the priests and theologians who have received Fr. Bakers magazine will have read his review.
 
PHILIPP: Thank you Memaw. Rather “well designed” placement if you ask anyone who believes in Christ and the church fathers and Genesis 1-11.
so someone who doesn’t agree with you is a non-believer?
But of course not the ET’s and TE’s on this thread.
the whos and the whats?
It all happened by chance
What is wrong with chance?
Many things are described by probability.
The very atoms of the world have their particles described by probability. It is clearly part of Creation on a very basic level.

Think about the chance associated with your own conception.
OR God did it over billions of years.
You don’t think God can do something over billions of years?

If you believe in an omnipotent, transcendent God then a billion years is the same to Him as an instant ….or a day 😉
Just how contradictory and rediculous are these two opposing theories of evolution?
Not contradictory or ridiculous at all.
There is a fantastic gap–where’s the truth squad? Help!
We’re here; you’re just not listening
This placement and the predominance of evidence supports ID many logarithmic scales higher than than ET-type science promotes without God; and, the wasteful and deceptive efforts like modernists theologians, Barbarian, Phil Vaz perform on this thread for TE.
ID is supported by no science.

Science of course cannot include God. It is not its proper provence.
REGARDING prints in the Paluxy river: Take a quick look at this web site for the molding and casting of the Taylor trail fossil human and dinosaur footprints together
mtblanco.com/MtBlancoNews/2007/TaylorTrailCast.html The paleontologist is Joe Taylor; no relation to the Taylor who helped discover the trail. These prints are the ones that will eventually be in many museums nationwide.
Please, the human/dino tracks have even been listed by answers in Genesis on their list of Arguments we think creationists should NOT use.
After looking at the above webstie at least read the reviews regarding the late philosopher Dr. Larry Azar book, “Evolution and other fairy tales” on:
www.kolbecenter.org
If you are looking for a “truth squad” on matters of science then the Kolbe center should be the last place to look.
Fr. Baker of Homoletic review agrees with Dr. Azar; it’s the best book he has read in 2007. I pray that all the priests and theologians who have received Fr. Bakers magazine will have read his review.
Why would a Dr of philosophy be an authority on Biology?
 
REGARDING prints in the Paluxy river: Take a quick look at this web site for the molding and casting of the Taylor trail fossil human and dinosaur footprints together
mtblanco.com/MtBlancoNews…TrailCast.html The paleontologist is Joe Taylor; no relation to the Taylor who helped discover the trail. These prints are the ones that will eventually be in many museums nationwide.
I’ve seen the prints. New ones get exposed every year, and older ones slowly erode away. But none of them look like footprints of humans.

The irony is that as the Institute for Creation Research says “We need these tracks like we need a hole in the head.” The reason is, the Paluxy river sediments are supposedly part of the “Flood sediments”, and the idea that somethings were walking about in the middle of a worldwide flood is not something a creationist can tolerate.

The Paluxy tracks were, ironically, debunked by a team of YE creationists.

Funny stuff.
 
Fr. Baker of Homoletic review agrees with Dr. Azar; it’s the best book he has read in 2007. I pray that all the priests and theologians who have received Fr. Bakers magazine will have read his review.
I’m adding Dr. Azar’s book to my must-read list. Fr. Baker’s recommendation carries a lot of weight for me. Thanks for posting that.

"If the reader of HPR is interested in the important debate about evolution and its role in our culture, then I recommend this readable and enlightening book by Professor Larry Azar. In recent years many evolutionists have seen the light and come to see that evolution is a pseudoscientific myth, a “fairy tale” -some even go so far as to say that it is a hoax. Here you will find the arguments for evolution and their refutation by logical rea*soning. Perhaps by the end of this century evolution will be universally recognized for what it is, a false theory, and will be ranked by most people in the same category as alchemy.

Kenneth Baker S.J."
 
Astonishing ignorance of science:
Perhaps by the end of this century evolution will be universally recognized for what it is, a false theory, and will be ranked by most people in the same category as alchemy.

That was the prayer of science haters the last two centuries. And each century, as one prediction after another was verified, the theory became stronger than ever.

If we can believe the numbers from the Discovery Institute, about 0.3% (not three percent, three-tenths of one percent) of people with doctorates in biology doubt evolution.

All of them for religious reasons, so far as anyone has been able to show. That is a serious wake-up for anyone doubting what science has to say about evolution.
 
evolutionnews.org/2006/06/dissent_from_darwinism_goes_gl.html

Dissent From Darwinism “Goes Global” as Over 600 Scientists Around the World Express Their Doubts About Darwinian Evolution

SEATTLE — Over 600 doctoral scientists from around the world have now signed a statement publicly expressing their skepticism about the contemporary theory of Darwinian evolution. The statement, located online at www.dissentfromdarwin.org, reads: “We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.”

The fastest growing segment of the list is scientists from outside the United States. International scientists now represent just over 12% of all signers, and as a group has seen nearly 40% growth in the past four months.

“I signed the Scientific Dissent From Darwinism statement, because I am absolutely convinced of the lack of true scientific evidence in favour of Darwinian dogma,” said Raul Leguizamon, M. D., Pathologist, and a professor of medicine at the Autonomous University of Guadalajara, Mexico.

“Nobody in the biological sciences, medicine included, needs Darwinism at all,” added Leguizamon. “Darwinism is certainly needed, however, in order to pose as a philosopher, since it is primarily a worldview. And an awful one, as Bernard Shaw used to say. The hold it has in academic circles is not at all due to the empirical evidence that allegedly supports it, but to its philosophical presuppositions and implications, the political correctness of the Darwinian paradigm and the intellectual inertia of academia in general. "

The list of 610 signatories includes member scientists from National Academies of Science in Russia, Czech Republic, Hungary, India (Hindustan), Nigeria, Poland, Russia and the United States. Many of the signers are professors or researchers at major universities and international research institutions such as Cambridge University, British Museum of Natural History, Moscow State University, Masaryk University in Czech Republic, Hong Kong University, University of Turku in Finland, Autonomous University of Guadalajara in Mexico, University of Stellenbosch in South Africa, Institut de Paléontologie Humaine in France, Chitose Institute of Science & Technology in Japan, Ben-Gurion University in Israel, MIT, The Smithsonian and Princeton.

“Dissent from Darwinism has gone global,” said Discovery Institute President Bruce Chapman, former US Ambassador to the United Nations in Vienna. “Darwinists used to claim that virtually every scientist in the world held that Darwinian evolution was true, but we quickly started finding US scientists that disproved that statement. Now we’re finding that there are hundreds, and probably thousands, of scientists all over the world that don’t subscribe to Darwin’s theory.”

Discovery Institute first published its Scientific Dissent From Darwinism list in 2001 to challenge false statements about Darwinian evolution made in promoting PBS’s “Evolution” series. At the time it was claimed that “virtually every scientist in the world believes the theory to be true.”

Prominent signatories include U.S. National Academy of Sciences member Philip Skell; American Association for the Advancement of Science Fellow Lyle Jensen; evolutionary biologist and textbook author Stanley Salthe; Smithsonian Institution evolutionary biologist and a researcher at the National Institutes of Health’s National Center for Biotechnology Information Richard von Sternberg; Editor of Rivista di Biologia / Biology Forum --the oldest still published biology journal in the world-- Giuseppe Sermonti; and Russian Academy of Natural Sciences embryologist Lev Beloussov.
 
I’ve seen the prints. New ones get exposed every year, and older ones slowly erode away. But none of them look like footprints of humans.

The irony is that as the Institute for Creation Research says “We need these tracks like we need a hole in the head.” The reason is, the Paluxy river sediments are supposedly part of the “Flood sediments”, and the idea that somethings were walking about in the middle of a worldwide flood is not something a creationist can tolerate.

The Paluxy tracks were, ironically, debunked by a team of YE creationists.

Funny stuff.
You sure don’t know anything about oceans and tides. Every 12 hours there are tides. In between tides the dinosaurs and humans could have come down to the then current shore line and get their food from clams etc. There are droves of clams in each of the 12 inches of limestone alternating with hardpan clay. An hyraulic enginneer from Un of Ilinois has been to the Paluxy 40 times and has explained why there are footpoints on each strata. The answer is TIDES. TIDES IN, TIDES OUT. They just kept getting higher and higher until the locals finally went elsewhere or drowned. That theory is backed by radio carbon dating of the carbonized wood in the clay betwen strata at ~ 37,000 +/- performed at a famous licensed RC lab. The footprints have been challenged by a lot of people but as you can now see they have never been debunked. It’s a hot potato for some but for those of us who have participated in excavations and have uncovered pristine human and dinossaur footprints and RC dated fossil wood- case closed, evolution is a fairy tail and those long ages don’t exist. Talk about a hot potato. Why don’t those who have found collagen in dinosaur bones date them? It’s obvious: they are scared to death to do so; the reason collagen and soft tissue is found in some fossils is that they are not million and milllion and millions of years old. Talk about “funny stuff” these are NOT honest scientists.
 
PHILIPP: Thank you Memaw. Rather “well designed” placement if you ask anyone who believes in Christ and the church fathers and Genesis 1-11. But of course not the ET’s and TE’s on this thread./QUOTE]

For heaven’s sake, the distance between the earth and the sun varies between 91.5 million miles and 94.5 million miles in the course of a year. And that is a matter of simple empirical fact. A distance of ten miles would rather get lost in that difference of 3 millio miles, don’t you think?
 
I took a look at that list of “PhD biologists who doubt Darwin.”

Here’s a listing of some of the more interesting fields that the Discovery Institute thinks include experts on biology:
**
Astrophysics
Computer science
Physics
“Space physics”
“Professor” (not willing to give his profession)
Philosophy
Computing
Electrical engineering
“Materials”
“Assistant Professor of Alternative Medicine” :confused: (accupuncture? aromatherapy? what?)
“Dairy Science”
“signal and image processing”
“Dept. of Technology”
“machine design”
“head of software development”
“fiber science”
“education”
“Social Pharmacy” 😃
“PhD, Evolutionary Algorithms” :eek: **

So, let’s take a look at a comparison of scientists who do support Darwinian theory. Let’s use “Project Steve.” To be on the “Steve list”, you have to accept evolutionary theory, be named “Steve” or some variant, and have a doctorate in biology or a related field. In the US, about 1% of people are named “Steve” or some variant.

Right now, there are um… 864 Steves on that list. So, how many “Steves” do they have? Let’s see… named “steve” PhD in biology or related field…um… two, if you allow middle names (a reasonable allowance) or three if you permit any PhD in any subject, (a rather unreasonable idea; they should have some expertise in biology to be included) But let’s be generous and give them three.

So that makes 3 divided by 864, or about… um… 0.34 percent of all biologists. A tiny minority, indeed. That’s about what other estimates show. And all of them, so far, are for a religious objection.
 
You sure don’t know anything about oceans and tides. Every 12 hours there are tides. In between tides the dinosaurs and humans could have come down to the then current shore line and get their food from clams etc.
As the creationists at the ICR pointed out, dinosaurs wandering around in the middle of the great flood (hunting claims at low tide?)
makes no sense. The whole place was supposed to be underwater, and the sediment piling up at the rate of meters per minute.
There are droves of clams in each of the 12 inches of limestone alternating with hardpan clay.
That’s another reason your idea is so foolish. No environment can feed meters of clams. They can’t even live piled meters deep on one another.
An hyraulic enginneer from Un of Ilinois has been to the Paluxy 40 times and has explained why there are footpoints on each strata. The answer is TIDES. TIDES IN, TIDES OUT.
Even creationists know better than that. It’s why the ICR denies your story:

In view of these developments, none of the four trails at the Taylor site can today be regarded as unquestionably of human origin. The Taylor Trail appears, obviously, dinosaurian, as do two prints thought to be in the Turnage Trail. The Giant Trail has what appears to be dinosaur prints leading toward it, and some of the Ryals tracks seem to be developing claw features, also…Even though it would now be improper for creationists to continue to use the Paluxy data as evidence against evolution, in the light of these questions, there is still much that is not known about the tracks and continued research is in order. We stand committed to truth, and will gladly modify or abandon our previous interpretation of the Paluxy data as the facts dictate.
icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=255

That particular scam also made the “Answers in Genesis” list of “Arguments we think creationists should not use.”

Some prominent creationist promoters of these tracks have long since withdrawn their support. Some of the allegedly human tracks may be artifacts of erosion of dinosaur tracks obscuring the claw marks. There is a need for properly documented research on the tracks before we would use them to argue the coexistence of humans and dinosaurs.
answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/faq/dont_use.asp
The footprints have been challenged by a lot of people but as you can now see they have never been debunked.
Even creationists have now generally given up on that foolish story.
Why don’t those who have found collagen in dinosaur bones date them?
For the same reason you don’t take the temp of a blast furnace with a candy thermometer. You’ll get 200 degrees. Likewise, if you date extremely old carbon by C-14, it will just peg out at whatever the maximum date is for that particular system.

You need to get an updated list of creationist stories. You’re recycling ones that they gave up on long ago.
 
Astonishing ignorance of science:
Perhaps by the end of this century evolution will be universally recognized for what it is, a false theory, and will be ranked by most people in the same category as alchemy.

That was the prayer of science haters the last two centuries. And each century, as one prediction after another was verified, the theory became stronger than ever.

If we can believe the numbers from the Discovery Institute, about 0.3% (not three percent, three-tenths of one percent) of people with doctorates in biology doubt evolution.

All of them for religious reasons, so far as anyone has been able to show. That is a serious wake-up for anyone doubting what science has to say about evolution.
The more the scientific field leaves God out of science, the worse our society gets. With every kind of artificial birth control possible, (and most of them harmful to our heath), Abortion killing millions of innocent babies worldwide a year, euthanasia, infanticide embryonic stem cell research etc. is destroying our society and will have devastating effects on the future of our country.
 
The more the scientific field leaves God out of science, the worse our society gets. With every kind of artificial birth control possible, (and most of them harmful to our heath), Abortion killing millions of innocent babies worldwide a year, euthanasia, infanticide embryonic stem cell research etc. is destroying our society and will have devastating effects on the future of our country.
All of that is morality or ethics, and nothing to do with science.

Question: Can you build an atom bomb?
Scientific answer: Yes

Question: Should you build an atom bomb?
Ethical answer: Probably not.

The doctrine of the Trinity (say) simply has no relevance to a scientific question such as “What is the speed of light in a vacuum?” Theology and science operate in two different spheres.
 
All of that is morality or ethics, and nothing to do with science.

Question: Can you build an atom bomb?
Scientific answer: Yes

Question: Should you build an atom bomb?
Ethical answer: Probably not.

The doctrine of the Trinity (say) simply has no relevance to a scientific question such as “What is the speed of light in a vacuum?” Theology and science operate in two different spheres.
Tell that to those MILLIONS of dead babies, I have a sticker on my car that says, “Pro-choice, thats a lie, babies don’t choose to die.”
 
The more the scientific field leaves God out of science, the worse our society gets.
Let’s see… drug use is down from 20 years ago, although we still have work to do:
While cigarette smoking is at lowest levels in the history of the survey and overall drug use among teens and adolescents is continuing to decline, there remain areas of concern with specific drugs of abuse such as prescription painkillers," says Dr. Nora D. Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), National Institutes of Health.
drugabuse.gov/newsroom/05/NR12-19a.html

And there has been a decades-long significant decline in homicides generally, although for the first time last year, homicides are up, primarily from Mexican drug violence spilling over into border cities. We still have work to do there, even if the news is generally good.

Racism isn’t dead, but it’s mortally wounded.

And abortions are down.
The study, released just days before the January 22 anniversary of the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision, showed that the U.S. abortion rate is at its lowest in more than 30 years. It also showed that the overall number of abortions nationwide is down more than 25 percent from its peak in 1990.
christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=4473

If I can inject a personal political note, if Ron Paul had his way, and abortion was not mandated by the federal government, thousands of unborn a year would be saved by returning the power to decide, to the states. Not the final answer, of course, but saving thousands is a worthwhile cause. (Yes, I’m a libertarian, but I also recognize that liberals and conservatives also have good ideas, and we need everyone’s good ideas to move forward as a nation)

People are healthier and living longer. And remarkably, science has now shown that we probably don’t need embryonic stem cells to produce tissue that could save lives, and allow people to regain their health. It’s not an abortion issue, now.
arstechnica.com/journals/science.ars/2006/08/25/5112

Let’s look at when God was in “science”, prior to Bacon’s re-establishment of classical science:
  • Disease was rampant.
  • Violence was greater than today.
  • Religious people believed God wanted them to kill and torture heretics
  • Racism was cosidered natural and right, and people of other races were considered inferior.
  • Women were regarded as chattel, and the Church strove to help them by limiting the size of stick a husband might use to beat them
Sorry. Not exactly what God wants for us.
 
Let’s see… drug use is down from 20 years ago, although we still have work to do:
While cigarette smoking is at lowest levels in the history of the survey and overall drug use among teens and adolescents is continuing to decline, there remain areas of concern with specific drugs of abuse such as prescription painkillers," says Dr. Nora D. Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), National Institutes of Health.
drugabuse.gov/newsroom/05/NR12-19a.html

And there has been a decades-long significant decline in homicides generally, although for the first time last year, homicides are up, primarily from Mexican drug violence spilling over into border cities. We still have work to do there, even if the news is generally good.

Racism isn’t dead, but it’s mortally wounded.

And abortions are down.
The study, released just days before the January 22 anniversary of the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision, showed that the U.S. abortion rate is at its lowest in more than 30 years. It also showed that the overall number of abortions nationwide is down more than 25 percent from its peak in 1990.
christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=4473

If I can inject a personal political note, if Ron Paul had his way, and abortion was not mandated by the federal government, thousands of unborn a year would be saved by returning the power to decide, to the states. Not the final answer, of course, but saving thousands is a worthwhile cause. (Yes, I’m a libertarian, but I also recognize that liberals and conservatives also have good ideas, and we need everyone’s good ideas to move forward as a nation)

People are healthier and living longer. And remarkably, science has now shown that we probably don’t need embryonic stem cells to produce tissue that could save lives, and allow people to regain their health. It’s not an abortion issue, now.
arstechnica.com/journals/science.ars/2006/08/25/5112

Let’s look at when God was in “science”, prior to Bacon’s re-establishment of classical science:
  • Disease was rampant.
  • Violence was greater than today.
  • Religious people believed God wanted them to kill and torture heretics
  • Racism was cosidered natural and right, and people of other races were considered inferior.
  • Women were regarded as chattel, and the Church strove to help them by limiting the size of stick a husband might use to beat them
Sorry. Not exactly what God wants for us.
I’m not sure if you are a Catholic or not but if you are, you should spend more time studying into your Catholic faith than all that nonsense. The body goes where the soul goes and I suggest you get in closer touch with your Maker and Savior, and what HE teaches. Don’t you ever get tired of spreading lies about the Catholic Faith. Study into the TRUTH of its history and you will see that the Church is what gave dignity to women. As I said before, science has its place but when it thinks it knows more than God or can do without God, or go against God’s Natural law its way off track.
 
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