Is The Theory of Evolution mandatory for the modern worldview

[rossum]

Last time I looked the earth was made of land. The major error evolutions make is confusing “eretz,” or for just a little spot of land, for the whole earth.

Then Abraham was not born on earth but on another planet, and travelled to earth. Genesis 1:12 says:Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land [eretz] that I will show you.
In Hebrew transliteration this is:Vayomer Adonay el-Avram lech lecha me’artsecha umimoladetecha umibeyt avicha el-ha’arets asher ar’eka. [emphasis added]

Source
Here “eretz” is obviously being used to refer to the new area where Abraham is to live, not to the whole planet earth. The Barbarian’s interpretation of “eretz” is allowable.

Of course, if Abraham, and Noah before him, were from a different planet then that would explain the complete absence of evidence for a global flood on planet earth.

rossum

 

[rossum]

I am agreeing with Memaw here. If one believes that human life begins at conception and the immortal soul is given by God to an individual at that time, (if you don’t, when does it begin and when is it given?) then the use of embryonic stem cells is a sin, no matter what scientific good may come of it.

Sometimes one person is the result of two separate conceptions, see Human Chimera. Do such people have two souls or one? Sometimes two people are the result of one conception, as with identical twins. Do such people have half a soul or one? Things are not always as simple as you seem to think.

As a Buddhist, I do not believe in a soul at all:“All the elements of reality are soulless.”
When one realises this by wisdom,
then one does not heed ill.
This is the Path of Purity.

Dhammapada 20:7

rossum

 

[edwest2]

What does Buddhism have to do with a Catholic forum?

God bless,
Ed

 

[rossum]

What does Buddhism have to do with a Catholic forum?

Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination.

Nostra Aetate
If the Pope thinks that it is worth discussing Buddhism then I think it is worth discussing it here also.

rossum

 

[Memaw]

Then Abraham was not born on earth but on another planet, and travelled to earth. Genesis 1:12 says:Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land [eretz] that I will show you.
In Hebrew transliteration this is:Vayomer Adonay el-Avram lech lecha me’artsecha umimoladetecha umibeyt avicha el-ha’arets asher ar’eka. [emphasis added]

Source
Here “eretz” is obviously being used to refer to the new area where Abraham is to live, not to the whole planet earth. The Barbarian’s interpretation of “eretz” is allowable.

Of course, if Abraham, and Noah before him, were from a different planet then that would explain the complete absence of evidence for a global flood on planet earth.

rossum

What part of left field did you pull that from.

 

[Memaw]

Sometimes one person is the result of two separate conceptions, see Human Chimera. Do such people have two souls or one? Sometimes two people are the result of one conception, as with identical twins. Do such people have half a soul or one? Things are not always as simple as you seem to think.

As a Buddhist, I do not believe in a soul at all:“All the elements of reality are soulless.”
When one realises this by wisdom,
then one does not heed ill.
This is the Path of Purity.

Dhammapada 20:7

rossum

Every single human being no matter how the conception came about, is created with a soul,. I wouldn’t trade my Holy Catholic Faith for any other religion on the face of this earth. You are in for a BIG surprise one day.

 

[Memaw]

What does Buddhism have to do with a Catholic forum?

God bless,
Ed

I don’t know what a lot of this stuff is doing on a Catholic Forum.

 

[The_Barbarian]

Every single human being no matter how the conception came about, is created with a soul,. I wouldn’t trade my Holy Catholic Faith for any other religion on the face of this earth. You are in for a BIG surprise one day.

Maybe a good one. The Church does not teach that those who are of faiths other than the RCC are necessarily going to Hell.

 

[ricmat]

Maybe a good one. The Church does not teach that those who are of faiths other than the RCC are necessarily going to Hell.

The surprise for the Buddhist could be that after death, he finds out that he has a soul.

 

[Memaw]

“Mountains”, in the area of the flood, were not much more than hills. None of this is indicative of a worldwide deluge, which is why the Church does not teach that it was. As you see, the mistranslation of “eretz” (“land”) for “the whole world” is at the root of the error.

In reality, Ed, only you can really belittle yourself.

Nature is part of God’s creation, and is therefore good. It is, as you have seen, the way He does most things in our world. Accepting His creation as it is, is part of accepting and loving Him.

It would help a lot if you could do that, Ed.

Have you ever tried to climb Mt. Ararat?? I think its just a little bit bigger than a hill. As with many other words, “land” can have different meanings.
I can’t even imagine why God would have Noah build such a big Ark and God would bring the animals & birds, in pairs, to go into the Ark, keep them there for months, while it “sprinkled” and destroyed the rest of the human race as well as animals & birds. And just caused a Sea to form. Musta rained pretty hard to kill off all the birds, or else they could have flown off to the next hill. Noah even had to send out a dove from the Ark.

 

[drpmjhess]

Sometimes one person is the result of two separate conceptions,…Do such people have half a soul or one? Things are not always as simple as you seem to think.

Rossum, you are quite right. The concept of “soul” is not easily resolved in the case of chimeras. If the soul is infused at conception, we would have to say that a person who is the result of the fusion of two fertilized eggs into one blastocyst (and later an embryo) indeed has two souls.

That’s why the “infusion model” of ensoulment is inadequate. Identical twins clearly do not have only one soul; either God infused two souls into one the embryo at conception in the expectation of a later twinning, or God infused the second soul just when twinning began, or God did not infuse either the soul until after the twinning had already been completed.

Petrus

 

[Memaw]

Rossum, you are quite right. The concept of “soul” is not easily resolved in the case of chimeras. If the soul is infused at conception, we would have to say that a person who is the result of the fusion of two fertilized eggs into one blastocyst (and later an embryo) indeed has two souls.

That’s why the “infusion model” of ensoulment is inadequate. Identical twins clearly do not have only one soul; either God infused two souls into one the embryo at conception in the expectation of a later twinning, or God infused the second soul just when twinning began, or God did not infuse either the soul until after the twinning had already been completed.

Petrus

We are getting sooooo good and giving God several options, you’d think HE didn’t know what he was doing unless we can tell him what HE did and how HE did it.

 

[Memaw]

Then Abraham was not born on earth but on another planet, and travelled to earth. Genesis 1:12 says:Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land [eretz] that I will show you.
In Hebrew transliteration this is:Vayomer Adonay el-Avram lech lecha me’artsecha umimoladetecha umibeyt avicha el-ha’arets asher ar’eka. [emphasis added]

Source
Here “eretz” is obviously being used to refer to the new area where Abraham is to live, not to the whole planet earth. The Barbarian’s interpretation of “eretz” is allowable.

Of course, if Abraham, and Noah before him, were from a different planet then that would explain the complete absence of evidence for a global flood on planet earth.

rossum

Obvious to who?? YOU,

 

[The_Barbarian]

Have you ever tried to climb Mt. Ararat??

The Bible doesn’t say that the Ark landed on Mt. Ararat.

There is much in the story that is not literal history, and clearly, the “Mountains of Ararat” are not “Mt. Ararat.” We don’t actually know where it landed now, because the location of the Ararat Mountains is unknown.

 

[ricmat]

Rossum, you are quite right. The concept of “soul” is not easily resolved in the case of chimeras. If the soul is infused at conception, we would have to say that a person who is the result of the fusion of two fertilized eggs into one blastocyst (and later an embryo) indeed has two souls.

That’s why the “infusion model” of ensoulment is inadequate. Identical twins clearly do not have only one soul; either God infused two souls into one the embryo at conception in the expectation of a later twinning, or God infused the second soul just when twinning began, or God did not infuse either the soul until after the twinning had already been completed.

Petrus

I have a question. Why is it important to know the details of God’s “soul infusion model?”

In your examples, certainly, we know that both twins each have a soul. And we know that naturally occurring human chimeras have a single soul.

The need for your model only arises in the context of trying to do what comes naturally, but in an artificial way instead. Shouldn’t this be a hint that we are trying to exceed the limits beyond which God does not want us to go?

There are limits, right?

 

[drpmjhess]

Have you ever tried to climb Mt. Ararat?? I think its just a little bit bigger than a hill. As with many other words, “land” can have different meanings.
I can’t even imagine why God would have Noah build such a big Ark and God would bring the animals & birds, in pairs, to go into the Ark, keep them there for months, while it “sprinkled” and destroyed the rest of the human race as well as animals & birds. And just caused a Sea to form. Musta rained pretty hard to kill off all the birds, or else they could have flown off to the next hill. Noah even had to send out a dove from the Ark.

Memaw, on a literal interpretation of the Noah’s flood story, there was not enough rain to cover the highest mountain. Mt. Everest is 29,035 feet high. The most rainfall ever recorded in one day took place on March 15, 1952, in Cilaos, La Re´union island, in the Indian Ocean, when 73.62 inches fell on March 15, 1952. Rain falling at this rate continuously for forty days and nights would produce only 2944.8 inches, or 254.4 feet of rain, for an average of 6.135 feet per day. In order to cover Mt. Everest it would have to have rained continuously at this rate for 4732 days, far longer than Noah’s flood lasted in the Genesis myth.

Petrus

 

[drpmjhess]

I have a question. Why is it important to know the details of God’s “soul infusion model?” In your examples, certainly, we know that both twins each have a soul. And we know that naturally occurring human chimeras have a single soul.

Ricmat, I mentioned this because some Catholics argue that the soul is infused at conception, at the moment the egg is fertilized. If you deny that chimeras have two souls, you must also deny that soul infusion takes place at conception.

 

[Memaw]

Memaw, on a literal interpretation of the Noah’s flood story, there was not enough rain to cover the highest mountain. Mt. Everest is 29,035 feet high. The most rainfall ever recorded in one day took place on March 15, 1952, in Cilaos, La Re´union island, in the Indian Ocean, when 73.62 inches fell on March 15, 1952. Rain falling at this rate continuously for forty days and nights would produce only 2944.8 inches, or 254.4 feet of rain, for an average of 6.135 feet per day. In order to cover Mt. Everest it would have to have rained continuously at this rate for 4732 days, far longer than Noah’s flood lasted in the Genesis myth.

Petrus

As Fr. Benedict Groeschel would say, You were there??? You have NO IDEA how hard it rained at that time. Like I said, It musta rained pretty hard to kill off all the birds too.

 

[ricmat]

Memaw, on a literal interpretation of the Noah’s flood story, there was not enough rain to cover the highest mountain. Mt. Everest is 29,035 feet high. The most rainfall ever recorded in one day took place on March 15, 1952, in Cilaos, La Re´union island, in the Indian Ocean, when 73.62 inches fell on March 15, 1952. Rain falling at this rate continuously for forty days and nights would produce only 2944.8 inches, or 254.4 feet of rain, for an average of 6.135 feet per day. In order to cover Mt. Everest it would have to have rained continuously at this rate for 4732 days, far longer than Noah’s flood lasted in the Genesis myth.

Petrus

So I guess your point is that if it happened, it was a miracle?

 

[ricmat]

Ricmat, I mentioned this because some Catholics argue that the soul is infused at conception, at the moment the egg is fertilized. If you deny that chimeras have two souls, you must also deny that soul infusion takes place at conception.

You’re still one or two answers ahead of my questions

Why is it important to know exactly when infusion takes place, so long as we know that it did take place?