Is The Theory of Evolution mandatory for the modern worldview

  • Thread starter Thread starter nmercier1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
No, I was pointing out that it would be absurd to suppose that He did set them aside as creationist assert. Why would you suppose that He didn’t do it right the first time? And yet, anyone who supposes that God stepped in and did miracles from time to time to make it work, is doing just that.

Some people will deny even God’s omniscience, to keep their belief in creationism. However, many of them don’t realize that this is what creationism calls for.

Walking on water goes against nature. So does being dead for days and then rising again. God does set aside nature from time to time, but it’s to teach us something, not because He has to.
Those are Miracles, they are Supernatural which means above nature and since God is the author of nature, he can do it. Miracles can not be explained away by scientists or any other intellectual body. I believe in God, the Father Almighty, CREATOR of Heaven and earth.
 
**"Blessed are you Lord, God of all Creation. Heaven and Earth are full of your glory. We seek your help in determining the truth of those things we discuss here, especially with regard to the works of your hands and how your works came to be.

We ask you, Lord, to enlighten us, especially with your gifts of knowledge and wisdom, and wonder and awe, and to fill us with the Holy Spirit.

May the most just, the most lovable, and the most high Will of God be done, be fulfilled, be praised and exalted in all things forever, Amen."**

Amen, indeed. I’ve set aside time, and said your prayer, which is most appropriate and good for all of us to hear and say.

God still expects us to do our part in understanding, of course.

A man was once trapped on top of his house in a flood. A boat came by but he said “No, I’ll trust the Lord to save me.” Unfortunately the water rose and he drowned.

Entering Heaven, he asked God why.

“I sent you a boat.” God replied. “All you had to do was get into it.”

God has given us the mind and senses to understand His creation. All we have to do is get into the boat.
Amazing. Even when praying you need to get the last word.

But thank you for including my entire post. You should do that more often with all the posters you respond to.
 
**"Blessed are you Lord, God of all Creation. Heaven and Earth are full of your glory. We seek your help in determining the truth of those things we discuss here, especially with regard to the works of your hands and how your works came to be.

We ask you, Lord, to enlighten us, especially with your gifts of knowledge and wisdom, and wonder and awe, and to fill us with the Holy Spirit.

May the most just, the most lovable, and the most high Will of God be done, be fulfilled, be praised and exalted in all things forever, Amen."**

Amen, indeed. I’ve set aside time, and said your prayer, which is most appropriate and good for all of us to hear and say.

God still expects us to do our part in understanding, of course.

A man was once trapped on top of his house in a flood. A boat came by but he said “No, I’ll trust the Lord to save me.” Unfortunately the water rose and he drowned.

Entering Heaven, he asked God why.

“I sent you a boat.” God replied. “All you had to do was get into it.”

God has given us the mind and senses to understand His creation. All we have to do is get into the boat.
We will NEVER really understand HOW HE did it. We are expected to have FAITH in HIM. Faith means to believe and trust HIM. There are many awesome MYSTERIES about GOD we will NEVER understand. I don’t even begin to think I know more than HIM, or try to tell HIM how he did it.
 
This is complete and utter rubbish. You have been badly misinformed by your creationist source. The earth’s orbit round the sun is an ellipse, not a circle. Because it is an elipse the distance betwen the earth and the sun varies during the year. At its closest (perihelion) the earth is about 91,405,436 miles miles from the sun. At its furthest (aphelion) the earth is about 94,511,989 miles from the sun. That is a difference of about 3,106,553 miles, far more than the ten miles you have quoted. The argument you have given is complete rubbish, the distance between the earth and the sun varies by over 3 million miles during a year. Your source’s ten mile figure is wrong by about six orders of magnitude.

Your creationist source is misinforming all its readers. You naively believed what they said and accepted it without checking the facts. As a result you have posted a foolish argument. This does not do your cause any good at all. In future I suggest that you mistrust whatever source you used and always check any arguments you see in that source.

rossum
I agree, the 10 mile figure is not correct. Whether it came from a creationist source or not, we don’t know. But the general principle is correct. There is the Goldilocks zone in which the earth must be located in order to have water in all 3 phases.

Rossum, your posts are usually so polite. This one is an exception. OK! Who is at Rossum’s keyboard, and what have you done with the real Rossum?
 
I agree, the 10 mile figure is not correct. Whether it came from a creationist source or not, we don’t know. But the general principle is correct. There is the Goldilocks zone in which the earth must be located in order to have water in all 3 phases.
The zone is roughly just outside the orbit of Venus, to just inside the orbit of mars, a very large zone, and it would be larger yet, if you consider the possiblity of the Earth being larger or smaller (which would affect the actual temperature by geochemical processes, composition of atmosphere, etc)

That’s a pretty big “Just Right” zone. And that’s just to have humans as we are today. So it kind of ends up being another statment of the Weak Anthropic Principle. (WAP):
“We are as we are, because the world is as it is.”

There is the Strong Anthropic Principle:
“The World is as it is, because we are as we are.”

This is often referred to as the completely ridiculous anthropic principle.

Sort of Cosmic Postmodernism.
 
We will NEVER really understand HOW HE did it. We are expected to have FAITH in HIM. Faith means to believe and trust HIM. There are many awesome MYSTERIES about GOD we will NEVER understand. I don’t even begin to think I know more than HIM, or try to tell HIM how he did it.
He gave you a mind and curiousity to find out how He did it. This is the joy of doing science, of finding out. It is good and the most direct example of work as prayer.

Years ago, I read an article in a popular magazine, in which a woman was upset overhearing a father, walking with his daughter through a spectacular display of fall foliage, explaining to her how the beauty happens.

The woman argued that the man had taken all the joy and wonder out of it.

I grieve for that woman, and for her children.
 
Alethios, what you have written is distasteful. Please allow me to inform you of the TRUTH.

THE FOUR-HUNDREDTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE PONTIFICAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES 1603-2003, The Commemorative Session of 9 November 2003, ADDRESS OF **JOHN PAUL II **TO THE MEMBERS OF THE PONTIFICAL, ACADEMY OF SCIENCES

"Our gatherings have also enabled me to clarify important aspects of the Church’s doctrine and life relating to scientific research. We are united in our common desire to correct misunderstandings and even more to allow ourselves to be enlightened by the one Truth which governs the world and guides the lives of all men and women. I am more and more convinced that scientific truth, which is itself a participation in divine Truth, can help philosophy and theology to understand ever more fully the human person and God’s Revelation about man, a Revelation that is completed and perfected in Jesus Christ. For this important mutual enrichment in the search for the truth and the benefit of mankind, I am, with the whole Church, profoundly grateful."🙂
Just remember, he said scientific TRUTH which is itself a participation in DIVINE TRUTH.
He also said, we are united in our common desire to CORRECT misunderstandings and even more to allow ourselves to be enlightened by the ONE TRUTH which governs the world and guides the lives of all men and women.
We must search for the TRUTH and the benefit of mankind. And stop trying to make puzzle pieces fit where they don’t.
 
I agree, the 10 mile figure is not correct. Whether it came from a creationist source or not, we don’t know. But the general principle is correct. There is the Goldilocks zone in which the earth must be located in order to have water in all 3 phases.

Rossum, your posts are usually so polite. This one is an exception. OK! Who is at Rossum’s keyboard, and what have you done with the real Rossum?
“Rubbish” is a polite word for what Rossum really meant about creationist arguments!
 
We will NEVER really understand HOW HE did it. We are expected to have FAITH in HIM. Faith means to believe and trust HIM. There are many awesome MYSTERIES about GOD we will NEVER understand. I don’t even begin to think I know more than HIM, or try to tell HIM how he did it.
Memaw, how did you become so anti-intellectual? Do you not distinguish between mysteries about God (e.g., the Trinity) which are in principle unfathomable, and questions in science that are fathomable, like how to cure cancer, how the world works?
 
You give me far, far to much credit. I don’t have to answer those questions, God will. I’m willing to wait till I get to Heaven, that way I will KNOW the TRUTH.
Is there anything about which you are curious?
 
“Rubbish” is a polite word for what Rossum really meant about creationist arguments!
It’s a funny word to use when you don’t know that the argument came from a creationist source. And no, it’s not polite in any case.
 
It’s a funny word to use when you don’t know that the argument came from a creationist source. And no, it’s not polite in any case.
It’s polite by comparison with alternatives such as “sterca tauri.”
 
Just remember, he said scientific TRUTH which is itself a participation in DIVINE TRUTH.
He also said, we are united in our common desire to CORRECT misunderstandings and even more to allow ourselves to be enlightened by the ONE TRUTH which governs the world and guides the lives of all men and women.
We must search for the TRUTH and the benefit of mankind. And stop trying to make puzzle pieces fit where they don’t.
Please do remember that I wasn’t responding in msg. 919 to you, Memaw but to Alethios’ comment refer to it please. And best to read the Pope’s comments in its entirety and not to misinterpret what Pope John Paul II’s statement (msg.919):
Alethios, what you have written is distasteful. Please allow me to inform you of the TRUTH.

THE FOUR-HUNDREDTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE PONTIFICAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES 1603-2003, The Commemorative Session of 9 November 2003, ADDRESS OF **JOHN PAUL II **TO THE MEMBERS OF THE PONTIFICAL, ACADEMY OF SCIENCES

"Our gatherings have also enabled me to clarify important aspects of the Church’s doctrine and life relating to scientific research. We are united in our common desire to correct misunderstandings and even more to allow ourselves to be enlightened by the one Truth which governs the world and guides the lives of all men and women. I am more and more convinced that scientific truth, which is itself a participation in divine Truth, can help philosophy and theology to understand ever more fully the human person and God’s Revelation about man, a Revelation that is completed and perfected in Jesus Christ. For this important mutual enrichment in the search for the truth and the benefit of mankind, I am, with the whole Church, profoundly grateful."🙂
Pope John Paul’s statement to his scientific advisory committee, which is comprised of religious members of different faiths and non-religious members, is as he stated, *scientific truth, which is itself a participation in divine Truth, can help philosophy and theology to understand ever more fully the human person *.

This is absolutely what I was doing when I earlier presented this to Ed:
I do recall that Alec and I did earlier touch base on this topic with you, Ed. It’s extremely important for everyone, you and other curious minds to explore, learn, and hopefully further discuss Genes, Environment, and Human Behavior. It was funded by the Department of Energy in 2000 as **Curriculum Development > High School 9-12 > Human Genome Project Curriculum Supplements > Genes, Environment, and Human Behavior **.

This curriculum supplement explores how scientists investigate the genetics of human behavior. The curriculum, BSCS’s fourth module related to the Human Genome Project, includes background information on the methods and assumptions of behavioral genetics and five student activities. Students are introduced to the complexity of the interactions of genetic, developmental, and environmental phenomena on human behaviors. It helps them realize that neither genes nor environment tells the whole story. Intelligence is used as an example of a complex human behavior, as is novelty-seeking behavior. The nature of human behaviors is contrasted with other human traits that exhibit simple inheritance patterns and with complex physical traits such as adult height. Students learn to understand human behavior in terms of genes and environment as they explore techniques used by behavioral geneticists. An important goal of the module is to develop among the students an appreciation of the potential impact of this emerging knowledge on public policy.” (1)

The BSCS (Biological Sciences Curriculum Study) is a leader in the field of science education because of our support for the teaching of evolution, our comprehensive approach to improved science teaching and learning, and our development and implementation of the BSCS 5E Instructional Model. The pdf has a wealth of information and extensively discusses a wide range of topics:

What Is Genetics?
What is meant by single-gene inheritance?
The multifactorial nature of complex human diseases
S o u rces of genetic variation
Genetics and evolution
The history of behavioral genetics
An illustrative problem from modern human behavioral genetics
The impact of genetics on society
What Is Behavior?
Why should we be interested in the biology of behavior?
What factors contribute to individual differences in behavior?
Behavior is influenced by genes and enviro n m e n t
Behavior can be influenced by development
How do we measure behavior?
Methods and Assumptions of Research in Behavioral Genetics
Methods using principles of genetic epidemiology
Methods using molecular genetic technology
Animal studies
Some interesting re s u l t s
Ethical, Legal, and Social Implications of Behavioral Genetics
Explanation and prediction in behavioral genetics
F reedom and re s p o n s i b i l i t y
Particular ELSI topics
B i o l o g y, human nature, law, and public policy
bscs.org/pdf/behavior.pdf
bscs.org/pdf/behavior.pdf
  1. bscs.org/curriculumdevelopment/highschool/humangenome/behavior/
    http://bscs.org/curriculumdevelopment/highschool/humangenome/behavior/
Memaw, you along with all members of Catholic.com shouldn’t have any disagreements found within the pdf ( bscs.org/pdf/behavior.pdf ) entitled Genes, Environment, and Human Behavior since Pope John Paul II stated, " . . .scientific truth, which is itself a participation in divine Truth, can help philosophy and theology to understand ever more fully the human person. . . .".🙂
 
Possibly, it’s just cultural. Scientists are often very blunt with each other when disagreeing.
 
I do recall that Alec and I did earlier touch base on this topic with you, Ed. It’s extremely important for everyone, you and other curious minds to explore, learn, and hopefully further discuss Genes, Environment, and Human Behavior. It was funded by the Department of Energy in 2000 as **Curriculum Development > High School 9-12 > Human Genome Project Curriculum Supplements > Genes, Environment, and Human Behavior **.

This curriculum supplement explores how scientists investigate the genetics of human behavior. The curriculum, BSCS’s fourth module related to the Human Genome Project, includes background information on the methods and assumptions of behavioral genetics and five student activities. Students are introduced to the complexity of the interactions of genetic, developmental, and environmental phenomena on human behaviors. It helps them realize that neither genes nor environment tells the whole story. Intelligence is used as an example of a complex human behavior, as is novelty-seeking behavior. The nature of human behaviors is contrasted with other human traits that exhibit simple inheritance patterns and with complex physical traits such as adult height. Students learn to understand human behavior in terms of genes and environment as they explore techniques used by behavioral geneticists. An important goal of the module is to develop among the students an appreciation of the potential impact of this emerging knowledge on public policy.” (1)

The BSCS (Biological Sciences Curriculum Study) is a leader in the field of science education because of our support for the teaching of evolution, our comprehensive approach to improved science teaching and learning, and our development and implementation of the BSCS 5E Instructional Model. The pdf has a wealth of information and extensively discusses a wide range of topics:

What Is Genetics?
What is meant by single-gene inheritance?
The multifactorial nature of complex human diseases
S o u rces of genetic variation
Genetics and evolution
The history of behavioral genetics
An illustrative problem from modern human behavioral genetics
The impact of genetics on society
What Is Behavior?
Why should we be interested in the biology of behavior?
What factors contribute to individual differences in behavior?
Behavior is influenced by genes and enviro n m e n t
Behavior can be influenced by development
How do we measure behavior?
Methods and Assumptions of Research in Behavioral Genetics
Methods using principles of genetic epidemiology
Methods using molecular genetic technology
Animal studies
Some interesting re s u l t s
Ethical, Legal, and Social Implications of Behavioral Genetics
Explanation and prediction in behavioral genetics
F reedom and re s p o n s i b i l i t y
Particular ELSI topics
B i o l o g y, human nature, law, and public policy
bscs.org/pdf/behavior.pdf
bscs.org/pdf/behavior.pdf
  1. bscs.org/curriculumdevelopment/highschool/humangenome/behavior/
    http://bscs.org/curriculumdevelopment/highschool/humangenome/behavior/
YES! Absolutely, the truth! You know I love Jesus more than mere mortal words can express. 🙂 The Holy Spirit always moves me toward the many TRUTH’s about life. Now Ed, please read that PDF 😉 that contains answers you’re confused about. And may God bless you with new knowledge, more truth, and an endless stream of love for your fellowman/woman whether they be religious on non-religious. 🙂 Always keeping in mind what I wrote on another topic…
Confused? I understand what a handful of people are doing here with crystal clarity. It is called salesmanship and ‘engineering consent.’ For the more scientifically inclined, I suggest you look up the work on behavior done by a man named Skinner for the Office of Naval Research.

“In continuity with previous twentieth century papal teaching on evolution (especially Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Humani Generis), the Holy Father’s message acknowledges that there are ‘several theories of evolution’ that are ‘materialist, reductionist and spiritualist’ and thus incompatible with the Catholic faith. It follows that the message of Pope John Paul II cannot be read as a blanket approbation of all theories of evolution, including those of a neo-Darwinian provenance which explicitly deny to divine providence any truly causal role in the development of life in the universe.” from Human Persons Created in the Image of God, part 64

Details of a recent experiment with an insect were published on Science Daily. The insect was shown various things (stimulus) and its reactions were recorded. The insect is regarded only as a biochemical device. Its being "alive’ was simply a function of biochemical activity. Once neural activity ceases for man or insect, you are dead and simply begin to decay.

Only the Catholic Church can provide complete answers regarding life, death, human origin, human dignity and human interaction. Science can assist but only the Church can integrate the deposit of faith with human derived observation, experimentation and explanation. This relationship between science and religion was defined by Pope John Paul II:

“Science can purify religion from error and superstition; religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.”

God bless,
Ed
 
I agree, the 10 mile figure is not correct. Whether it came from a creationist source or not, we don’t know. But the general principle is correct. There is the Goldilocks zone in which the earth must be located in order to have water in all 3 phases.

Rossum, your posts are usually so polite. This one is an exception. OK! Who is at Rossum’s keyboard, and what have you done with the real Rossum?
I first read it in Readers Digest Magazine, and I have heard it several time since. A Jesuit priest I know who has written text books for High Schools told of it in a homily also. I didn’t just dream it up folks.
 
I first read it in Readers Digest Magazine, and I have heard it several time since. I didn’t just dream it up folks.
Reader’s Digest, Science, Nature, Astrophysics and Space Science, Scientific American – what’s the difference?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top