W
WetCatechumen
Guest
So to be clear, he is now officially a Patriarch and not a Major Archbishop?
Is the UGCC head Patriarch Sviatoslav or Major Archbishop Sviatoslav?
- Status
A
Aramis
Guest
Canonically, His Beattitude is a Major Archbishop who happens to use the title Patriarch. As did his predecessor, Patriarch Hussar.
Unless, of course, His Holiness Francis has made a formal elevation.
Unless, of course, His Holiness Francis has made a formal elevation.
P
Peter_J
Guest
Does it have to be an either-or? There’s no doubt that he is Major Archbishop Sviatoslav, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he isn’t Patriarch Sviatoslav (as a matter of fact, that’s what he was called at the Divine Liturgy I attended this weekend).
U
UncleBill
Guest
Rome has made it clear that they will not be naming anyone Patriarch to Sees that do not have the Patriarchal designation from Apostolic times. Don’t hold your breath for the UGCC to be officially granted a Patriarch.
P
Peter_J
Guest
Can you provide a link or quotation? (Not that I’m expecting that Rome will name any more patriarchates, but I’ve never seen the statement you mentioned.)
C
ConstantineTG
Guest
But there were no Patriarchates during apostolic times. Patriarchates only came about in the 4th century.
A
Amadeus
Guest
No, there was no “clear” statement ever made by Rome regarding the elevation of the UGCC to a patriarchal Church.
If I remember it correctly, after Rome assented to the transfer of the UGCC seat from L.viv to Kyiv, the UGCC Holy Synod decided to elevate the Church to the level of a patriarchate and bestowed the title “Patriarch” to HB Husar and requested Rome’s approval for the change.
The late Pope John Paul II was believed to have said privately that it was not the “opportune” time for such a change. (This was the period when the MP was raising some issues against Rome’s support for the resurgence of the UGCC in Ukraine and elsewhere.)
Without waiting for Rome’s “official” action on her request for change, the UGCC’s clergy and laity have continued to address their chief hierearch as “Patriarch” and commemnorate him in the Divine Liturgy as such.
However, official correspondence continue to refer to the UGCC’s chief hierarch as “Major Archbishop.”
If I remember it correctly, after Rome assented to the transfer of the UGCC seat from L.viv to Kyiv, the UGCC Holy Synod decided to elevate the Church to the level of a patriarchate and bestowed the title “Patriarch” to HB Husar and requested Rome’s approval for the change.
The late Pope John Paul II was believed to have said privately that it was not the “opportune” time for such a change. (This was the period when the MP was raising some issues against Rome’s support for the resurgence of the UGCC in Ukraine and elsewhere.)
Without waiting for Rome’s “official” action on her request for change, the UGCC’s clergy and laity have continued to address their chief hierearch as “Patriarch” and commemnorate him in the Divine Liturgy as such.
However, official correspondence continue to refer to the UGCC’s chief hierarch as “Major Archbishop.”
B
bsroufek
Guest
This is correct from my research. Here is a link about the UGCC status as a future Patriarchate.
W
WetCatechumen
Guest
Okay, thank you. Because I was pretty sure he is a Major Archbishop and I keep seeing people refer to him as Patriarch.
C
ConstantineTG
Guest
Transferring the Major Archdiocese was a necessary step towards Patriarchal status. The prime sees are always located in the major ancient cities, and Kyiv was of course the birthplace of Christianity among the Slavs.
N
Nestor_kea
Guest
(bold mine)
If you do not forget Sts. Constantine-Cyril and Methodius, you have to correct this statement at least in a way such as “Kiyiv is the birthplace of Christianity among the most of Eastern Slavs.”
This year it is a 1150th anniversary of their coming to Grand Moravia. Their disciples were later expelled and went south to Ohrid, Bulgaria, Macedonia, somehow Serbia…
I
IsidoreOfKiev
Guest
No one in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church calls him Major Archbishop…and I’m serious…no one. Every priest commemorates him as Patriarch in the Liturgy. Let’s not get scrupulous about this. Many people calls Pope John Paul II, “Pope John Paul The Great” but no one says “Don’t call him that…that’s not an approved title.”
The title of Patriarch was purchased by the blood of the Ukrainian martyrs who went to the gulags rather than break their unity with Rome.
The title of Patriarch was purchased by the blood of the Ukrainian martyrs who went to the gulags rather than break their unity with Rome.
A
Aramis
Guest
I’ve heard the term used for Cardinal Hussar by a Ukrainian Bishop. But only when speaking of canonical status.
P
Peter_J
Guest
Are you familiar with “No true Scotsman”?
I
IsidoreOfKiev
Guest
It sounds very Scholastic, and, as you know…that’s not part of our tradition.
N
Nestor_kea
Guest
Yes, I believe it is so (probably not so absolutistic, but really nearly no one.
But what do you think, would be the situation different if Rome didn’t develop / invent title “Major Archbishop” but would use “Catholicos”?
I can imagine Rome would not like this because of “catholic sound” of title of hierarch and such a “sound” is (in West) better suitable to the whole Church. (Analogy with Catholic patriarchs of Alexandria called Patriarch and not also Pope as Alexandrian patriarchs should be and non-Catholic ones are.)
“Catholicos” is not “Patriarch” but surely sounds better and more honorific than artificial “Major Archbishop”. And good explanation before bringing it to use would have helped in my opinion. But now it is probably too late.
W
WetCatechumen
Guest
I don’t think he’s saying that only fake Ukrainian Catholics call him Major Archbishop - he’s just saying that the vast majority of Ukrainian Catholics call him Patriarch.
U
UncleBill
Guest
You aught to get out a bit more before making statements like that…the last 4 or 5 Ukranian churches I’ve been to commemorated him as our archbishop. Bishop Richard had said many times…we will commemorate him as Patriarch when Rome makes him a Patriarch.
F
Formosus
Guest
I am in Bishop Richard’s Eparchy , and I am almost certain that +Sviatoslav was commemorated as Patriarch when the bishop visited us in San Francisco in 2011. Our parish regularly refers to +Sviatoslav as Patriarch.
P
Peter_J
Guest
Alright, that’s fair enough. So long as those who don’t call him Patriarch aren’t looked down on, I have no beef.
- Status