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PseuTonym
Guest
Link:
ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/HERESY4.TXT
Chapter Four of The Great Heresies,
by Hilaire Belloc
Isn’t there some potential conflict between one of the Ten Commandments and the use of images in worship of God?
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ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/HERESY4.TXT
Chapter Four of The Great Heresies,
by Hilaire Belloc
Isn’t there some potential conflict between one of the Ten Commandments and the use of images in worship of God?
R
Rosebud77
Guest
I never use images statues etc. Not mandatory and it would be for me a distraction.
A
adamhovey1988
Guest
I don’t think that answers the question and I think that should go to a different threadI never use images statues etc. Not mandatory and it would be for me a distraction.
C
ChurchSoldier
Guest
No, they are not essential, but often used to enhance our life of worship. And a quote from an article is not really the same thing a doctrinal statement.
There was a large part of the Protestant Reformation (the Reformed side, Knox, Calvin, et al.) which also denounced and removed most religious items including vestments, candles and altar linens. Basically anything they deemed as too “Catholic”.
You will see similar thoughts by many of the Bible based denominations such as Churches of Christ/Christian Churches. It is why their sanctuaries often look more like auditoriums, than traditional churches.
Finally, there is always a potential conflict or idolizations of something when we (flawed men / women) are involved. Just read the apologetics or liturgical forums and some of the scrupulous questions there…
Good thing we have Christ
Pax
There was a large part of the Protestant Reformation (the Reformed side, Knox, Calvin, et al.) which also denounced and removed most religious items including vestments, candles and altar linens. Basically anything they deemed as too “Catholic”.
You will see similar thoughts by many of the Bible based denominations such as Churches of Christ/Christian Churches. It is why their sanctuaries often look more like auditoriums, than traditional churches.
Finally, there is always a potential conflict or idolizations of something when we (flawed men / women) are involved. Just read the apologetics or liturgical forums and some of the scrupulous questions there…
Good thing we have Christ
Pax
F
Faxero
Guest
You might have interpreted the passage too literally. As ChurchSolider indicated, usage of images in worship is not required by doctrine.
Images are helpful because they provide a basis for stimulation of worship. Using an image to help recall memories, feelings, and inclinations to supplement worshipful activities isn’t the same as viewing the image itself as an stimulation of worship, which is what the Ten Commandments condemn.
Images are helpful because they provide a basis for stimulation of worship. Using an image to help recall memories, feelings, and inclinations to supplement worshipful activities isn’t the same as viewing the image itself as an stimulation of worship, which is what the Ten Commandments condemn.
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Rosebud77
Guest
Why? I clearly state that they are not essential…I don’t think that answers the question and I think that should go to a different thread
T
thistle
Guest
I agree. What you said was pretty clear to me.Why? I clearly state that they are not essential…
D
dmar198
Guest
There are several passages in the New Testament that suggest that sacred imagery is okay to use in Christian churches. The most significant passages may be the ones about the Temple. The Jewish Temple, located in Jerusalem, was the primary place of worship for the Jews, and it was decorated with sacred imagery. But the early Christians used the Temple for worship before separate Christian churches were built, and Jesus called the Temple “my house,” “[my] house of prayer” in Matthew 21:13, Mark 11:17, and Luke 19:46. This evidence identifies the Temple as the first building used for Christian worship, and it shows that the earliest Christians had no problem worshiping in a building decorated with sacred imagery.
The Apostles worshiped in the Temple in Luke 24:52-53, Acts 2:46, Acts 3:1-3, 8, Acts 5:21, 42, Acts 21:26, Acts 22:17, Acts 24:18, and Acts 26:21. Jesus worshiped in the Temple in Matthew 21:12-13, 23, Mark 11:11, 15-17, 27, 12:35, Luke 2:46-49, Luke 19:45-47, Luke 20:1, Luke 21:37-38, John 2:14-17, John 5:14, John 7:14, 28, John 8:2, 20, John 10:23, and John 18:20.
Anyone can read the Bible’s description of the Temple to see that the original Temple was decorated with sacred imagery: 1 Kings 6:23-35, 1 Kings 7:16-20, 22, 25, 28-29, 36, 40-44, 2 Chronicles 3:5, 7, 10-14, 16, 2 Chronicles 4:3-4, 13-15, Hebrews 9:1-5. After the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple, the Second Temple was built, and, according to the Jewish historian Josephus, it too was decorated with sacred imagery: “[the] gate…[was] all over covered with gold, as was its whole wall about it; it had also golden vines above it, from which clusters of grapes hung as tall as a man’s height. … [A] curtain had also embroidered upon it all that was mystical in the heavens, excepting that of the [Zodiac] signs.” (Wars of the Jews Book V Chapter V Paragraph 4)
A second piece of evidence for Christian imagery in the New Testament is also related to the Temple. The Book of Hebrews significantly mentions the Temple, its decorations, and its images in a passage that sounds like a defense of the right of Christians to make physical churches: “Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly sanctuary. For a tent was prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the bread of the Presence; it is called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain stood a tent called the Holy of Holies, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, which contained a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail.” Hebrews 9:1-5. By saying “Even the first covenant had…an earthly sanctuary,” with images of cherubim decorating it, it sounds like he is defending the right of Christians to have similar buildings.
A third piece of evidence for Christian imagery in the New Testament is in John 3:14-15. There, Jesus brings up the story of a bronze statue that Moses made at the command of God, and Jesus says it was a figure of His crucifixion. This suggests that there can be statues of made of Jesus’ crucifixion. Also, St. Paul possibly mentions an early crucifix in Galatians 3:1. Even if it wasn’t a crucifix, St. Paul still at the very least compares it to something graphical twice: “It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.” Galatians 3:1. In this passage, St. Paul at the very least compares the vividness of the crucifixion to an image in a positive way. This counts as a fourth piece of New Testament support for Christian imagery.
A fifth piece of evidence is this: several of the passages of the Bible are described in vivid detail that paints a mental picture in the minds of listeners. It is only a natural development of this that these vivid descriptions would be painted. Thus, Christian imagery goes back to the New Testament and developed from that source.
Video version of this argument:
5 Ways the New Testament Supports Sacred Images
m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLNA1NGi7SpXNfvtrppljEXRqo5hvYYfA9&v=2WVuBv3Ik40
The Apostles worshiped in the Temple in Luke 24:52-53, Acts 2:46, Acts 3:1-3, 8, Acts 5:21, 42, Acts 21:26, Acts 22:17, Acts 24:18, and Acts 26:21. Jesus worshiped in the Temple in Matthew 21:12-13, 23, Mark 11:11, 15-17, 27, 12:35, Luke 2:46-49, Luke 19:45-47, Luke 20:1, Luke 21:37-38, John 2:14-17, John 5:14, John 7:14, 28, John 8:2, 20, John 10:23, and John 18:20.
Anyone can read the Bible’s description of the Temple to see that the original Temple was decorated with sacred imagery: 1 Kings 6:23-35, 1 Kings 7:16-20, 22, 25, 28-29, 36, 40-44, 2 Chronicles 3:5, 7, 10-14, 16, 2 Chronicles 4:3-4, 13-15, Hebrews 9:1-5. After the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple, the Second Temple was built, and, according to the Jewish historian Josephus, it too was decorated with sacred imagery: “[the] gate…[was] all over covered with gold, as was its whole wall about it; it had also golden vines above it, from which clusters of grapes hung as tall as a man’s height. … [A] curtain had also embroidered upon it all that was mystical in the heavens, excepting that of the [Zodiac] signs.” (Wars of the Jews Book V Chapter V Paragraph 4)
A second piece of evidence for Christian imagery in the New Testament is also related to the Temple. The Book of Hebrews significantly mentions the Temple, its decorations, and its images in a passage that sounds like a defense of the right of Christians to make physical churches: “Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly sanctuary. For a tent was prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the bread of the Presence; it is called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain stood a tent called the Holy of Holies, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, which contained a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail.” Hebrews 9:1-5. By saying “Even the first covenant had…an earthly sanctuary,” with images of cherubim decorating it, it sounds like he is defending the right of Christians to have similar buildings.
A third piece of evidence for Christian imagery in the New Testament is in John 3:14-15. There, Jesus brings up the story of a bronze statue that Moses made at the command of God, and Jesus says it was a figure of His crucifixion. This suggests that there can be statues of made of Jesus’ crucifixion. Also, St. Paul possibly mentions an early crucifix in Galatians 3:1. Even if it wasn’t a crucifix, St. Paul still at the very least compares it to something graphical twice: “It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.” Galatians 3:1. In this passage, St. Paul at the very least compares the vividness of the crucifixion to an image in a positive way. This counts as a fourth piece of New Testament support for Christian imagery.
A fifth piece of evidence is this: several of the passages of the Bible are described in vivid detail that paints a mental picture in the minds of listeners. It is only a natural development of this that these vivid descriptions would be painted. Thus, Christian imagery goes back to the New Testament and developed from that source.
Video version of this argument:
5 Ways the New Testament Supports Sacred Images
m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLNA1NGi7SpXNfvtrppljEXRqo5hvYYfA9&v=2WVuBv3Ik40
K
Karen107
Guest
There is something wrong with making an idol to worship which is what that article is about but there is nothing wrong with making a statue which turns our minds to God and the heavens above (saints, angels). In fact the later is a good thing because we’re always supposed to think of things of heaven.Link:
ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/HERESY4.TXT
Chapter Four of The Great Heresies,
by Hilaire Belloc
Isn’t there some potential conflict between one of the Ten Commandments and the use of images in worship of God?
Colossians 3:2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.
R
rfournier103
Guest
For me, focusing in on something while I’m at prayer helps me concentrate and keeps my mind from wandering. I have a hard time focusing alot of the time and looking at a picture or reading along at Mass helps ALOT.
I have a card that has pictures and descriptions of the Mysteries of the Rosary on it, and although I know all the prayers by heart, I look at the corresponding picture of each mystery so I stay focused on it. I find SOME pictures quite helpful. I’m not praying to my Rosary card; just staying focused.
Some find it helpful, but it is NOT REQUIRED by the Church at all.
I have a card that has pictures and descriptions of the Mysteries of the Rosary on it, and although I know all the prayers by heart, I look at the corresponding picture of each mystery so I stay focused on it. I find SOME pictures quite helpful. I’m not praying to my Rosary card; just staying focused.
Some find it helpful, but it is NOT REQUIRED by the Church at all.
J
Jake_Parker
Guest
So, a quick background. I’ve gone form Conservative Protestant, to Progressive Christian, to Catholic (in progress).No, they are not essential, but often used to enhance our life of worship. And a quote from an article is not really the same thing a doctrinal statement.
There was a large part of the Protestant Reformation (the Reformed side, Knox, Calvin, et al.) which also denounced and removed most religious items including vestments, candles and altar linens. Basically anything they deemed as too “Catholic”.
You will see similar thoughts by many of the Bible based denominations such as Churches of Christ/Christian Churches. It is why their sanctuaries often look more like auditoriums, than traditional churches.
Finally, there is always a potential conflict or idolizations of something when we (flawed men / women) are involved. Just read the apologetics or liturgical forums and some of the scrupulous questions there…
Good thing we have Christ
Pax
I attended a progressive non-denom church for a while. I thought it was interesting that there was a lot more Catholic-like things in that church than I’ve seen in any conservative protestant church. Such as candles, images, and alter linens. No vestments (those were in the Mainline churches which I also find intriguing. The mainlines (like the United Church of Christ) are pretty traditional, until they preach, and then it’s very progressive.
Sorry for getting a little side tracked.
K
Karen107
Guest
Here’s another thing. Many of the Church (people) especially in ancient times we not able to read so pictures and statues help them receive and understand the Word of the Lord especially when the bible wasn’t able to be had by everyone and if it were it couldn’t be read. It also helps those who can read because a picture (or statues) tell a thousand words. The bible actually comes alive when it is in a picture… No, no conflict.Link:
ewtn.com/library/HOMELIBR/HERESY4.TXT
Chapter Four of The Great Heresies,
by Hilaire Belloc
Isn’t there some potential conflict between one of the Ten Commandments and the use of images in worship of God?
F
faithsmind
Guest
To OP,
If you are seeking to understand the Catholic teaching on this commandment, please refer to 2130-2140 of the catechism where it’s explained: vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm.
If you are seeking to understand the Catholic teaching on this commandment, please refer to 2130-2140 of the catechism where it’s explained: vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm.
F
faithsmind
Guest
Just another thought…
If you followed the link, you will see that the teaching is based on the mystery of the Incarnate Word. What is the Incarnate Word? It is the humility of a “yes” in obedience to Gods will. The Incarnate Word is why we ingest the Eucharist and honor Mary. It is the Body of Christ alive today. So, I urge you to continue to seek to understand this most beautiful mystery, and believe me, I will too!
If you followed the link, you will see that the teaching is based on the mystery of the Incarnate Word. What is the Incarnate Word? It is the humility of a “yes” in obedience to Gods will. The Incarnate Word is why we ingest the Eucharist and honor Mary. It is the Body of Christ alive today. So, I urge you to continue to seek to understand this most beautiful mystery, and believe me, I will too!
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