Is the Virgin Mary really the Queen Mother?

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Isa_Almisry

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A lot of recent apologetics for veneration of the Mother of God revolves around the idea of her as the Queen Mother of the OT. For an instance of this, contrast I Kings (III Kingdoms LXX) 1:15 “So Bathshe’ba went to the king [David] into his chamber … 16 Bathshe’ba bowed and did obeisance to the king,” with 2:12 So Solomon sat upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was firmly established… 19 So Bathshe’ba went to King Solomon, … And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right.

It makes sense, but is there any patristics in support of this interpretation, or is it of recent vintage?

In the Divine Liturgies of St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil, in preparation of the Eucharist, the fraction representing the Theotokos is put on the paten on the right of the Lamb while the priest recites Psalm 44 (45):10 “The Queen stood at Thy right hand.” So I know that there was some idea of it, but would like more from the Fathers on it.
 
Isa_Almisry said:
A lot of recent apologetics for veneration of the Mother of God revolves around the idea of her as the Queen Mother of the OT. For an instance of this, contrast I Kings (III Kingdoms LXX) 1:15 “So Bathshe’ba went to the king [David] into his chamber … 16 Bathshe’ba bowed and did obeisance to the king,” with 2:12 So Solomon sat upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was firmly established… 19 So Bathshe’ba went to King Solomon, … And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right.

It makes sense, but is there any patristics in support of this interpretation, or is it of recent vintage?

In the Divine Liturgies of St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil, in preparation of the Eucharist, the fraction representing the Theotokos is put on the paten on the right of the Lamb while the priest recites Psalm 44 (45):10 “The Queen stood at Thy right hand.” So I know that there was some idea of it, but would like more from the Fathers on it.
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I think it’s because Christianity grew up in a lot of countries where there were Kings and Queens, so people were/are used to the terminology.

As for the Queen Mother title, well, the Queen Mother is the mother of the King or Queen, so it would be appropriate for the Mother of the King of Heaven - right? 👍
 
theistgal said:
I think it’s because Christianity grew up in a lot of countries where there were Kings and Queens, so people were/are used to the terminology.
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I myself am a monarchist, so I have no trouble with the terminology. I’m just wondering if the Fathers used it.
As for the Queen Mother title, well, the Queen Mother is the mother of the King or Queen, so it would be appropriate for the Mother of the King of Heaven - right? 👍
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Yes, and if I was still Protestant, that would be the end of it. I want to know, however, how the Church has interpreted this through the ages.
 
Isa_Almisry said:
A lot of recent apologetics for veneration of the Mother of God revolves around the idea of her as the Queen Mother of the OT. For an instance of this, contrast I Kings (III Kingdoms LXX) 1:15 “So Bathshe’ba went to the king [David] into his chamber … 16 Bathshe’ba bowed and did obeisance to the king,” with 2:12 So Solomon sat upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was firmly established… 19 So Bathshe’ba went to King Solomon, … And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right.

It makes sense, but is there any patristics in support of this interpretation, or is it of recent vintage?

In the Divine Liturgies of St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil, in preparation of the Eucharist, the fraction representing the Theotokos is put on the paten on the right of the Lamb while the priest recites Psalm 44 (45):10 “The Queen stood at Thy right hand.” So I know that there was some idea of it, but would like more from the Fathers on it.
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the case can be made from Scripture that Mary is a saint but to call her Queen Mother or Queen of Heaven is a bit over the top for me. It doesn’t parallel with Scripture.
 
SIA said:
the case can be made from Scripture that Mary is a saint but to call her Queen Mother or Queen of Heaven is a bit over the top for me. It doesn’t parallel with Scripture.
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Actually I don’t question that Queen Mother it parallels with Scripture, e.g. Luke 1:43. Queen of Heaven might be a different story.
 
Isa_Almisry said:
Actually I don’t question that Queen Mother it parallels with Scripture, e.g. Luke 1:43. Queen of Heaven might be a different story.
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The Catechism of the Catholic church saying that Mary is the crystal fountain of faith just un-nerves me.
 
SIA said:
The Catechism of the Catholic church saying that Mary is the crystal fountain of faith just un-nerves me.
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I would really like to see a link to validate your statement.

Here is a link to the online version of the “Catechism of the Catholic Church”…and specifically to the chapter in which the Catechism discusses Mary…and I’ll be doggoned…no words like “crystal fountain of faith” appear in it or anywhere in the Catechism.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p6.htm

I know that the phrase “O crystal fountain of faith” is contained in Pope Pius XII’s Marian Year Prayer of 1953-54.

Somehow… I feel you are a very unhappy and disenchanted person… I’ll remember you in my prayers. I will also pray that you not post false items…
 
RobHom said:
I would really like to see a link to validate your statement.

Here is a link to the online version of the “Catechism of the Catholic Church”…and specifically to the chapter in which the Catechism discusses Mary…and I’ll be doggoned…no words like “crystal fountain of faith” appear in it or anywhere in the Catechism.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p6.htm

I know that the phrase “O crystal fountain of faith” is contained in Pope Pius XII’s Marian Year Prayer of 1953-54.

Somehow… I feel you are a very unhappy and disenchanted person… I’ll remember you in my prayers. I will also pray that you not post false items…
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Maybe he was thinking of Robert Schuller’s crystal cathedral.
 
Hahaha…oh, come on, guys! It had mechanical guard-beetles! 😃

Well I guess there’s just no pleasing some people.
 
Another easy question! This gets better and better.

The answer is: Yes.
 
RobHom said:
I would really like to see a link to validate your statement.

Here is a link to the online version of the “Catechism of the Catholic Church”…and specifically to the chapter in which the Catechism discusses Mary…and I’ll be doggoned…no words like “crystal fountain of faith” appear in it or anywhere in the Catechism.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p6.htm

I know that the phrase “O crystal fountain of faith” is contained in Pope Pius XII’s Marian Year Prayer of 1953-54.

Somehow… I feel you are a very unhappy and disenchanted person… I’ll remember you in my prayers. I will also pray that you not post false items…
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You are absolutley right, my apologies. I meant to say that the Catechism proclaims Mary as the purest realization of the faith (paragraph 149).
 
SIA said:
You are absolutley right, my apologies. I meant to say that the Catechism proclaims Mary as the purest realization of the faith (paragraph 149).
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What is wrong with that? She certainly followed her son better than the 12 he chose.
 
TriuneUnity said:
or…remember that cheesy muppet movie from the 80s, the Dark Crystal? LoL
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I was a kid when it came out. I loved it then. I bought it for my son (7). he loves it. We should not judge children’s movies as adults at Caans. We should judge for content and let the kids tell us what they like (that we deem appropriate).

By the way, I still love it.
 
ralphinal said:
I was a kid when it came out. I loved it then. I bought it for my son (7). he loves it. We should not judge children’s movies as adults at Caans. We should judge for content and let the kids tell us what they like (that we deem appropriate).

By the way, I still love it.
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Too Taoist for me.
 
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