Is their any biblical proof for this?

[Pete_1]

Hi are their any biblical statements saying that all sins can be forgiven, and are through genuine repentence. I am confused about ‘blasphemy against the Holy Spirit’ and am afraid i may have commited it. I know that the chuch teaches that this is final refusal to repent, untill death, i just don’t know where the church gets this teaching from. Could anyone please help me?

 

[Pete_1]

What i mean by i am afraid i have commited it is that, i am afraid i have commited it in the literal sense, not as the church descirbes it.

 

[rydm39]

You are referring to:

Mark 3:29 “But whoever blasphemes against the holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an everlasting sin.”

or

Matthew 12:31-32 “Therefore, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
and whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

**The sin is not trusting in Christ; rejecting His Grace. **

John 3 16:18 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

Pete, my prayer for you is that you got to Mass, make it to confession, and let Christ’s love guide you in your day.

Ryan

 

[pyropam]

Hi Pete,
Go to confession, the priest will guide you. He can give you all the back-up scripture you will need.

We are only human.

God bless,
Pam

 

[mercygate]

What i mean by i am afraid i have commited it is that, i am afraid i have commited it in the literal sense, not as the church descirbes it.

The Church was commissioned by Christ in Mt. 28:20 to “teach.” She is the legitimate and authorized interpreter of Scripture. The Church arrives at its interpretation of the “sin against the Holy Spirit” by an intense and graced unterstanding of Scripture, taken as a whole.

If you are worried about this sin, then you have not committed it. Sensitive souls (myself included) sometimes do things that they believe to be the unforgiveable sin. When I was concerned about that (in my youth), I was given the very great grace to understand that if what I had done had, indeed, merited the condemnation of my soul, then I should be content to be condemned by God, Who is true and just, rather than to fret about it or attempt to acquit myself according to my own understanding.

**Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not rely on your own insight.
**

 

[Pete_1]

I was given the very great grace to understand that if what I had done had, indeed, merited the condemnation of my soul, then I should be content to be condemned by God, Who is true and just, rather than to fret about it or attempt to acquit myself according to my own understanding.

What do you mean by this? don’t we all ‘deserve’ to be condemmed

 

[mercygate]

What do you mean by this? don’t we all ‘deserve’ to be condemmed

Yes. Deserving it and receiving the grace to accept it for oneself under the Divine Mercy are two different things.

Did I answer your question about how the Church comes to understand this as she does?

 

[Pete_1]

yea thankyou , you lost me with the second bit though could you please explain what you meant?

 

[Pete_1]

Matthew 12:31-32 “and whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.”

This is not meant to be taken literally then?

 

[mercygate]

yea thankyou , you lost me with the second bit though could you please explain what you meant?

It’s off topic but I meant that I trust the Lord enough that if He sees fit to condemn me, then I deserve it. He is God; I am not.

 

[Pete_1]

thankyou

 

[Pete_1]

Matthew 12:31-32
and whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

Why is it said so literally, i still dont understnad how the church came to the conclusion that this sin is rejecting Christs grace.

 

[Pete_1]

This is what i found in the summa theologia

Three meanings have been given to the sin against the Holy Ghost. For the earlier doctors, viz. Athanasius (Super Matth. xii, 32), Hilary (Can. xii in Matth.), Ambrose (Super Luc. xii, 10), Jerome (Super Matth. xii), and Chrysostom (Hom. xli in Matth.), say that the sin against the Holy Ghost is literally to utter a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, whether by Holy Spirit we understand the essential name applicable to the whole Trinity, each Person of which is a Spirit and is holy, or the personal name of one of the Persons of the Trinity, in which sense blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is distinct from the blasphemy against the Son of Man (Matthew 12:32), for Christ did certain things in respect of His human nature, by eating, drinking, and such like actions, while He did others in respect of His Godhead, by casting out devils, raising the dead, and the like: which things He did both by the power of His own Godhead and by the operation of the Holy Ghost, of Whom He was full, according to his human nature. Now the Jews began by speaking blasphemy against the Son of Man, when they said (Matthew 11:19) that He was “a glutton . . . a wine drinker,” and a “friend of publicans”: but afterwards they blasphemed against the Holy Ghost, when they ascribed to the prince of devils those works which Christ did by the power of His own Divine Nature and by the operation of the Holy Ghost. Augustine, however (De Verb. Dom., Serm. lxxi), says that blasphemy or the sin against the Holy Ghost, is final impenitence when, namely, a man perseveres in mortal sin until death, and that it is not confined to utterance by word of mouth, but extends to words in thought and deed, not to one word only, but to many. Now this word, in this sense, is said to be uttered against the Holy Ghost, because it is contrary to the remission of sins, which is the work of the Holy Ghost, Who is the charity both of the Father and of the Son. Nor did Our Lord say this to the Jews, as though they had sinned against the Holy Ghost, since they were not yet guilty of final impenitence, but He warned them, lest by similar utterances they should come to sin against the Holy Ghost: and it is in this sense that continued below

 

[Pete_1]

we are to understand Mark 3:29-30, where after Our Lord had said: “But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost,” etc. the Evangelist adds, “because they said: He hath an unclean spirit.”
But others understand it differently, and say that the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, is a sin committed against that good which is appropriated to the Holy Ghost: because goodness is appropriated to the Holy Ghost, just a power is appropriated to the Father, and wisdom to the Son. Hence they say that when a man sins through weakness, it is a sin “against the Father”; that when he sins through ignorance, it is a sin “against the Son”; and that when he sins through certain malice, i.e. through the very choosing of evil, as explained above (I-II, 78, 1 ,3), it is a sin “against the Holy Ghost.”

Someone please help me can anyone explain how the church arrived at the conclusion that the sin is rejecting christs grace?

 

[Pete_1]

In other words when and why did the church accept st augustines view and how does it refute the other views.

please help,
thanks

 

[rydm39]

Pete, I think you can draw this conclusion right from Matthew 12. You need to look beyond the literal. We know the Trinity is Father, Son, Holy Spirit as one. How can one part of the Trinity forgive and the other not?

Therefore, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
and whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Christ often spoke in parables, in Matthew 12 he is talking about driving evil spirits out. The Pharisees question his actions and explains:

This man drives out demons only by the power of Beelzebul, the prince of demons."
But he knew what they were thinking and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and no town or house divided against itself will stand.
And if Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand?
And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your own people drive them out? Therefore they will be your judges.
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
How can anyone enter a strong man’s house and steal his property, unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.
Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.

The evil spirit is your sin. Don’t reject the Spirit of God. Don’t reject the grace received in the confessional.

Read a little more in Matthew 12 and Christ says:

“Either declare the tree good and its fruit is good, or declare the tree rotten and its fruit is rotten, for a tree is known by its fruit.
You brood of vipers, how can you say good things when you are evil? For from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks.
A good person brings forth good out of a store of goodness, but an evil person brings forth evil out of a store of evil.
I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak.
By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Don’t think there is anything you have done that He will not forgive. The bad fruit of sin is thinking you cannot be forgiven.

You might want to reflect on:

Ephesians Chapter 6 10:24

Finally, draw your strength from the Lord and from his mighty power.
Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil.
For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.
Therefore, put on the armor of God, that you may be able to resist on the evil day and, having done everything, to hold your ground.
So stand fast with your loins girded in truth, clothed with righteousness as a breastplate,
and your feet shod in readiness for the gospel of peace.
In all circumstances, hold faith as a shield, to quench all (the) flaming arrows of the evil one.
And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
With all prayer and supplication, pray at every opportunity in the Spirit. To that end, be watchful with all perseverance and supplication for all the holy ones
and also for me, that speech may be given me to open my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel
for which I am an ambassador in chains, so that I may have the courage to speak as I must.
So that you also may have news of me and of what I am doing, Tychicus, my beloved brother and trustworthy minister in the Lord, will tell you everything.
I am sending him to you for this very purpose, so that you may know about us and that he may encourage your hearts.
Peace be to the brothers, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Grace be with all who love our Lord Jesus Christ in immortality

I pray this helps you. Thanks for opening an interesting dialogue.

Ryan

 

[MarcoPolo]

In other words when and why did the church accept st augustines view and how does it refute the other views.

please help,
thanks

Pete, I agree with Ryan, you don’t have to go much farther than Matthew 12. I also don’t think Augustine’s view conflicts with the other views, which is why Aquinas included them all in the Summa Theologica. Both Augustine and the others have the same basis for their explanations: Namely, denial of the power of the Spirit.

While Augustine focused on rejecting the grace of the Spirit in us, the other Fathers focused on rejecting the validity of the Spirit which Christ used to perform divine miracles, for example.

Ultimately, continuing in these sins indeed will result in unforgiveness. But repenting of them certainly will result in forgiveness! You have to remain “in” the sin for it to remain unforgiven. Again see Matthew 12 and also don’t forget:

Isaiah 1:18 Come now, let us set things right, says the LORD: Though your sins be like scarlet, they may become white as snow; Though they be crimson red, they may become white as wool.

 

[Pete_1]

**This is from new advent
**
newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm

The sin or blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is mentioned in Matthew 12:22-32; Mark 3:22-30; Luke 12:10 (cf. 11:14-23); and Christ everywhere declares that it shall not be pardoned. In what does it consist? If we examine all the passages alluded to, there can be little doubt as to the reply.
Let us take, for instance, the account given by St. Matthew which is more complete than that of the other Synoptics. There had been brought to Christ “one possessed with a devil, blind and dumb: and he healed him, so that he spoke and saw”. While the crowd is wondering, and asking: “Is not this the Son of David?”, the Pharisees, yielding to their wonted jealousy, and shutting their eyes to the light of evidence, say: “This man casteth not out devils but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.” Jesus then proves to them this absurdity, and, consequently, the malice of their explanation; He shows them that it is by “the Spirit of God” that He casts out devils, and then He concludes: “therefore I say to you: Ever sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not he forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.”
So, to sin against the Holy Ghost is to confound Him with the spirit of evil, it is to deny, from pure malice, the Divine character of works manifestly Divine. This is the sense in which St. Mark also defines the sin question; for, after reciting the words of the Master: “But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost shall never have forgiveness”, he adds at once: “Because they said: He hath an unclean spirit.” With this sin of pure downright malice, Jesus contrasts the sin “against the Son of man”, that is the sin committed against Himself as man, the wrong done to His humanity in judging Him by His humble and lowly appearance. This fault, unlike the former, might he excused as the result of man’s ignorance and misunderstanding.
But the Fathers of the Church, commenting on the Gospel texts we are treating of, did not confine themselves to the meaning given above. Whether it be that they wished to group together all objectively analogous cases, or whether they hesitated and wavered when confronted with this point of doctrine, which St. Augustine declares (Serm. ii de verbis Domini, c. v) one of the most difficult in Scripture, they have proposed different interpretations or explanations.

 

[Pete_1]

St. Thomas, whom we may safely follow, gives a very good summary of opinions in II-II, Q. xiv. He says that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost was and may be explained in three ways:

• Sometimes, and in its most literal signification, it has been taken to mean the uttering of an insult against the Divine Spirit, applying the appellation either to theHoly Ghost or to all three Divine persons. This was the sin of the Pharisees, who spoke at first against “the Son of Man”, criticizing the works and human ways of Jesus, accusing Him of loving good cheer and wine, of associating with the publicans, and who, later on, with undoubted bad faith, traduced His Divine works, the miracles which He wrought by virtue of His own Divinity.
• On the other hand, St. Augustine frequently explains blasphemy against the Holy Ghost to be final impenitence, perseverance till death in mortal sin. This impenitence is against the Holy Ghost, in the sense that it frustrates and is absolutely opposed to the remission of sins, and this remission is appropriated to the Holy Ghost, the mutual love of the Father and the Son. In this view, Jesus, in Matthew 12 and Mark 3 did not really accuse the Pharisees of blaspheming the Holy Ghost, He only warned them against the danger they were in of doing so.
• Finally, several Fathers, and after them, many scholastic theologians, apply the expression to all sins directly opposed to that quality which is, by appropriation, the characteristic quality of the Third Divine Person. Charity and goodness are especially attributed to the Holy Ghost, as power is to the Father and wisdom to the Son. Just, then, as they termed sins against the Father those that resulted from frailty, and sins against the Son those that sprang from ignorance, so the sins against the Holy Ghost are those that are committed from downright malice, either by despising or rejecting the inspirations and impulses which, having been stirred in man’s soul by the Holy Ghost, would turn him away or deliver him from evil.

continued…

 

[Pete_1]

It is easy to see how this wide explanation suits all the circumstances of the case where Christ addresses the words to the Pharisees. These sins are commonly reckoned six: despair, presumption, impenitence or a fixed determination not to repent, obstinacy, resisting the known truth, and envy of another’s spiritual welfare.
The sins against the Holy Ghost are said to be unpardonable, but the meaning of this assertion will vary very much according to which of the three explanations given above is accepted. As to final impenitence it is absolute; and this is easily understood, for even God cannot pardon where there is no repentance, and the moment of death is the fatal instant after which no mortal sin is remitted. It was because St. Augustine considered Christ’s words to imply absolute unpardonableness that he held the sin against the Holy Ghost to be solely final impenitence. In the other two explanations, according to St. Thomas, the sin against the Holy Ghost is remissable – not absolutely and always, but inasmuch as (considered in itself) it has not the claims and extenuating circumstance, inclining towards a pardon, that might be alleged in the case of sins of weakness and ignorance. He who, from pure and deliberate malice, refuses to recognize the manifest work of God, or rejects the necessary means of salvation, acts exactly like a sick man who not only refuses all medicine and all food, but who does all in his power to increase his illness, and whose malady becomes incurable, due to his own action. It is true, that in either case, God could, by a miracle, overcome the evil; He could, by His omnipotent intervention, either nuillify the natural causes of bodily death, or radically change the will of the stubborn sinner; but such intervention is not in accordance with His ordinary providence; and if he allows the secondary causes to act, if He offers the free human will of ordinary but sufficient grace, who shall seek cause of complaint? In a word, the irremissableness of the sins against the Holy Ghost is exclusively on the part of the sinner, on account of the sinner’s act.

**This makea a bit more sence.

does anyone know of any other explanations and solid proof that augustines explanation is the true one?
**