Is there a good argument against self harm

  • Thread starter Thread starter ashleyxo
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

ashleyxo

Guest
hi again.

is there a good reason as to why self harm is wrong? the arguments i am seeing goes along the lines of “but that hurts the temple of god etc”, but it confuses me because where do we draw the line? besides the fact that it is hard to look at, what is so “bad” about little cuts or bruises (example) and why do people suggest other ways to cope that isn’t necessarily that good either? (I read a thread about self harm here and a poster suggested that the OP should try skipping a meal or sleeping on the floor if she wanted to punish herself)

I don’t mean to trivialize anything, but the thought of how people saying that it is a sin as a way to discourage people from doing it popped into my head.
 
A general answer to the question is self-respect. But that doesn’t speak to most people who might not even know what that means. As a general rule, in this application, it means to *not *do something to yourself that you wouldn’t do to some else. So in regards to cutting, if the reason someone is cutting themselves is so that they are punishing themselves, then the person cutting themselves has to answer the question - would I cut someone else as a means of punishment? Or, if the reason for cutting is to get some endorphins to release in order to mask an emotional pain that is present, then the person cutting themselves would have to answer the question - would I do the same thing to someone who is having a bad day…cut them?

The idea of self-respect was tossed out the window decades ago, and look what has happened. Don’t do to yourself what you wouldn’t do to someone else.
 
It is a perversion of virtue. The virtues are powers to be a gift to others. Not only that, they are performed against natural tendencies to omit them. Because of the struggle to perform virtue against natural tendencies, it is considered an exercise. The exercise of virtue is self-denial to an end in view based on what is revealed by God.

Cutting is also an exercise, the soul denies the natural tendencies to protect the flesh but the end in view is not to be a gift, but to further disorder the passions - which prevent the soul to give its whole self to God.

Virtue begets happiness. Happiness is ordered to the mean of virtue. Therefore, virtue is the mean to happiness.

Theological virtue has its end in God. God is the end of all just desire. Therefore, our end to be just is based on theological virtues.

Deliberate cutting is ordered to the flesh. The flesh itself avails no passage into God. Therefore, the mean of the flesh is to be avoided.
 
Like Mary, we are servants of the LORD, we who are baptized into Christ.

Self-harm does no service to Him, and is a turning of the focus of thought away from Him to focus on one’s own feelings.

A servant’s whole activity is in service, never in self-indulgence (which includes self-harm).
Any “good” that a servant has is provided and ordered by the servant’s Master, such as food, clothing, home, family, occupation, etc.

That is why our Master said, “do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom of God and his justice, and all these things will be added to you.”
Self-harm is “seeking something”, trying to obtain some result, and it is done in a kind of anxiety. But our LORD provides all for his servants - he is a Proper Master.
 
Cutting yourself is a sign of severe mental instability. There is nothing to debate.
 
The Catholic Church regards many with mental disorders as “Innocents.” It is sad that Satan enjoys harming them and tempting them into self-harm. I believe many smokers are sufferers of a form of an anxiety disorder while also addicted. Also, medications that treat anxiety disorders can be addictive, such as lorazepam and clonozepam. Therefore, it is a tough debate. But, we must understand that Innocents are real, exist, and suffer in some ways differently than an average person. It is written in the Vatican canon (regarding Innocents) so please educate yourself before you make a swift judgement of them. Myself and my ex-wife are classified as Innocents, and I have to make tremendous sacrifices and concessions for her to have more-than-average access to my child due to such a rule. It’s hard to overcome and deal with, but I cannot take the one she gave birth to away if it keeps her from slitting her wrists.

Love the innocent ones as best you can. God made them.
 
As others indicate, self mutilation (that’s what it is - don’t try lessening the evil by using an innocuous word like harm) is a mental health issue and needs professional treatment, yes, it is an affront to God, but it may not be wholly the victims fault.
 
I am going to give my opinion as someone who is a recovering self-harmer I feel like this, when you hurt yourself you’re hurting people around you we don’t realize it at the time we think it’s kind of what might be referred to as a personal sin but there’s no such thing as a personal sin, you’re not only hurting yourself but you’re hurting the people around you too your being selfish of course there’s a lot to this and I understand that not everyone does it for the same reason and I get very frustrated when someone claims that people who self-harm do it for attention although that is sometimes true it is not a universal. I think if nothing else a good reason not to do it not even a religious reason or a philosophical reason but a medical reason is because your scars and cuts can get infected very easily.
 
I must bring forth the discussion of suicide, but I hear too many absolute judgements being passed on it that I do not think are correct.

First of all, I agree, we should never be promoting suicide as a good solution. I would argue that the majority of suicides are probably rash and are regretful, especially among teens and young people. Those people should be given all the help they need to overcome their issues.

However, there are those who say it is always wrong and I will disagree with that statement, but obviously, as with all matters, the decision lies with God.

I will present 2 different life scenarios:

A kid is born into a good family. He has his normal ups and downs as a child, but it very successful in school and sports and is good looking. He finds a nice wife to marry and has his own nice family. He is a genuinely good person and goes to church regularly. Also prays regularly. He lives mainly like society does, has nice cars, house, and encourages his wife to use contraception, so they can do as they choose. He has very little suffering in his life and eventually dies comfortably in his sleep.

A girl is born in a broken family. She is physically and mentally abused by her father and her uncle raps her. She suffers from severe depression and anxiety. The family does not feed her well and she becomes malnourished, suffering many physical issues. She then gets into a car accident, breaking her neck and back and suffers tremendous nonstop pain. Her family does not help her by taking her to the doctors and eventually her ends her life to end the misery.

Although the 1st person example doesn’t do that many wrong or bad things in their life, they were not exceptionally challenged and didn’t do that many good things to help less fortunate people. I’m not saying this person should go to hell, but using contraception is a serious sin.

The 2nd person has truly been through hell on earth. It would be hard for me to imagine that God would punish her for taking her life. The bible does not specifically condemn suicide (murder is not suicide by it’s definition), but it does say that working on the Sabbath, practicing gay acts, or not being a virgin on your wedding day are subject to death.
 
I’m not sure we really need a good spiritual argument. It’s not something that people in a healthy state of mind do - and I say this as someone who has many many scars from it. And it’s something that has a tendency to escalate and to be very temporary. It’s just not something that’s really beneficial, and someone in that situation would be better off seeking whatever help is available.

Honestly, I think worrying about whether it’s a sin is usually the last thing someone who’s struggling with self-harm needs. Self-harm is something people resort to when they don’t feel like they have a better option to keep themselves going. Usually depressed people already have plenty of guilt and it very rarely ends up being productive in that state.

(And for the record, I don’t feel like skipping a meal or sleeping on the floor are a good idea for depressed people either. Generally “punishing” yourself is not a good idea in that state of mind - I would even go so far as to say such a person shouldn’t engage in penances unless advised by their confessor or mandated by the church.)
 
It’s my understanding that the current thought on major physical self-punishments is that they should only be done under the guidance of a spiritual director who will make sure that it’s not excessive and not being done for the wrong reasons. For example, someone undertaking an extreme fast could actually be suffering from an eating disorder, which is a mental illness. There are also people who commit various forms of self-harm because of mental or emotional problems that cause them to derive some pleasure or release from the act, or they feel compelled to do the act.

I cannot really think of a situation in today’s society where cutting oneself would be regarded as anything other than a physical manifestation of a mental or emotional problem. I don’t think categorizing it as a “sin” is helpful, as when people do this, they are usually feeling lower than dirt anyway. I have some personal experience with this from many years ago before it became well-known and all over the Internet. Someone cutting should be told their behavior is unhealthy and that they should seek help/ talk to a trusted person or counselor about the issue.
 
DarkLight:

Let’s try mixing the three. A young man, good looking, has what appears to be a good life. He marries a girl who comes from what appears to be “hell on Earth” and tries to help her, they fall in love. Their relationship becomes toxic as issues result from the attempts of normalizing a difficult life. Her lack of believing anyone thinks she is “worth anything” leads her to seek attention by cheating. He knows that and stays in the relationship in fear of her suicide. He goes out from time to time and gay men start giving him attention that she doesn’t. Eventually, he questions his sexuality on this basis. Then, repents, goes to confession for all the mistakes and tries to fix it. She finds out, and throws him to the curb for someone else. He gets overweight from the depression of losing his marriage and the only people that want a sexual relationship with him are gay older men. No matter how much he tries to believe that his sexual immorality is forgiven, he can’t find a woman at Church to start a new life with, getting past all of the previous issues. Now, he is suffering, yet trying desparately to start a new life the right way. Is he condemned to death?
I say no.
 
DarkLight said:
I’m not sure we really need a good spiritual argument. It’s not something that people in a healthy state of mind do - and I say this as someone who has many many scars from it. And it’s something that has a tendency to escalate and to be very temporary. It’s just not something that’s really beneficial, and someone in that situation would be better off seeking whatever help is available.

Honestly, I think worrying about whether it’s a sin is usually the last thing someone who’s struggling with self-harm needs. Self-harm is something people resort to when they don’t feel like they have a better option to keep themselves going. Usually depressed people already have plenty of guilt and it very rarely ends up being productive in that state.
)
Click to expand...
there are people who find that other alternatives do not work for them, so technically there isn’t something that can help?
adamhovey1988 said:
I am going to give my opinion as someone who is a recovering self-harmer I feel like this, when you hurt yourself you’re hurting people around you we don’t realize it at the time we think it’s kind of what might be referred to as a personal sin but there’s no such thing as a personal sin, you’re not only hurting yourself but you’re hurting the people around you too your being selfish of course there’s a lot to this and I understand that not everyone does it for the same reason and I get very frustrated when someone claims that people who self-harm do it for attention although that is sometimes true it is not a universal. I think if nothing else a good reason not to do it not even a religious reason or a philosophical reason but a medical reason is because your scars and cuts can get infected very easily.
Click to expand...
but if we take away these factors…assuming someone who has nobody that would be hurt from this? or if the person treats the wounds, burns, etc carefully so it won’t get infected? would it be morally neutral then? is self harm inherently evil?
1Lord1Faith said:
The idea of self-respect was tossed out the window decades ago, and look what has happened. Don’t do to yourself what you wouldn’t do to someone else.
Click to expand...
isn’t it the other way around (treat others the way you want to be treated)
 
ashleyxo said:
isn’t it the other way around (treat others the way you want to be treated)
Click to expand...
It is…if the question is - how do I treat other people? But that’s not what you’re talking about. Your talking about - how do I treat myself.
 
ashleyxo said:
there are people who find that other alternatives do not work for them, so technically there isn’t something that can help?
Click to expand...
I would be very careful with the “no other alternatives work” thing, for practical reasons.

I’ll be honest, it took me quite some time (on the order of years) to figure out what worked for me. Turns out I don’t respond very well to antidepressants, but I do much better on mood stabilizers. Don’t really get along with CBT very well either. Both of those, of course, are considered the standard treatments for my condition.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top