Is there a lack of priests

[Brenda_V]

IsaiahStar:

Not here. In my parish, I have tried to go to confession the past two days in a row with no success. By the time I got there (today, ten minutes before it even started which is the earliest I could make it) the line was nearly spilling out the door. I kind of wondered why the people in the back even stayed. (I go to Mass frequently and there are always several people who don’t make it to confession.)

So then I asked someone if maybe Father stayed after Mass… nope, only the scheduled times. (otherwise he would be swamped.) So I REALLY want to go to confession now but I need to wait till tomorrow at 3:30. I am getting there REALLY early to be the first one, because I am going to pick up a friend at 4. sigh I shouldn’t complain. I am blessed to be Catholic. sometimes it is just so frusterating.

Sounds like my Parish. We have Confession before 1/2 an hour before every weekday Mass except Saturday and Sunday. If you don’t arrive in time to be one of the first three in line chances are you will be turned away. Now on Saturday, there are two times for Confessions, before the 5 p.m. Mass and after the 5 p.m. Mass - at this time it is my understanding that Fr. will stay until he hears all who show up. We also have Confessions for teens only right before the Life Teen Mass on Sunday evenings.

Add to all these times the extra times during Advent and Lent and you have no excuse except forgetfulness or laziness to make it at least once a year (mine is the first excuse, I am busy in the mornings and totally forget by evening that I had intended to go!)

Brenda V.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

buzzcut:

According to these stats, there is now a better ratio of priests to active Catholics than there ever was:

Catholics in the U.S.
1965 - 45,600,000
2004 - 64,800,000

Catholics who go to Mass weekly
1965 - 30,500,000 (67% of total)
2004 - 21,400,000 (33% of total)

Diocesan priests
1965 - 35,925
2004 - 28,375

Mass-goers per diocesan priest
1965 - 849
2004 - 754

Source: cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin

That confirms a suspicion of mine, but I suppose it’s true that priests still wind up with more work on their plate in many parishes, even if there are less practicing Catholics on average.

 

[Frank_Roman]

Priests: In 1920 there were 21,019 total priests in the United States. In 1930 there were 26,925, in 1940 there were 33,912, in 1945 there were 38,451, in 1950 there were 42,970, in 1955 there were 46,970, in 1960 there were 53,796. This is not the mark of a declining Church, but of a vigorous Church — in 1960 it had a record number of men who were its frontline soldiers, whose ranks had grown 15 percent in the five years between 1955 and 1960. As one would also expect, as the number of priests increased, the number of parishes without a resident priest was declining. In 1945 there were 839 parishes without a resident pastor, in 1950 there were 791, in 1955 there were 673, in 1960 there were 546.

After skyrocketing from about 27,000 in 1930 to 58,000 in 1965, the number of priests in the United States dropped to 45,000 in 2002. And remember that in all of these statistics, the per capita decline has been even worse, because the number of Catholics has continued to increase since 1965. In 1965 there were 12.l85 priests for every 10,000 Catholics, in 2002 there were 7.l0 — a decline of 46 percent. By 2020, there will be about 31,000 priests — and only 15,000 will be under the age of 70. Right now there are more priests age 80 to 84 than there are age 30 to 34.
About 3 percent of parishes, 549, were without a resident priest in 1965. In 2002 there were 2,928 priestless parishes, about 15 percent of U.S. parishes. By 2020, a quarter of all parishes, 4,656, will have no priest.

Res ipsa loquitur

 

[Angels_Watchin]

Frank Roman:

Priests: In 1920 there were 21,019 total priests in the United States. In 1930 there were 26,925, in 1940 there were 33,912, in 1945 there were 38,451, in 1950 there were 42,970, in 1955 there were 46,970, in 1960 there were 53,796. This is not the mark of a declining Church, but of a vigorous Church — in 1960 it had a record number of men who were its frontline soldiers, whose ranks had grown 15 percent in the five years between 1955 and 1960. As one would also expect, as the number of priests increased, the number of parishes without a resident priest was declining. In 1945 there were 839 parishes without a resident pastor, in 1950 there were 791, in 1955 there were 673, in 1960 there were 546.

After skyrocketing from about 27,000 in 1930 to 58,000 in 1965, the number of priests in the United States dropped to 45,000 in 2002. And remember that in all of these statistics, the per capita decline has been even worse, because the number of Catholics has continued to increase since 1965. In 1965 there were 12.l85 priests for every 10,000 Catholics, in 2002 there were 7.l0 — a decline of 46 percent. By 2020, there will be about 31,000 priests — and only 15,000 will be under the age of 70. Right now there are more priests age 80 to 84 than there are age 30 to 34.
About 3 percent of parishes, 549, were without a resident priest in 1965. In 2002 there were 2,928 priestless parishes, about 15 percent of U.S. parishes. By 2020, a quarter of all parishes, 4,656, will have no priest.

Res ipsa loquitur

Vatican II, Novus Ordo,
Valid, yes. Fruitful, no.

You will know them by their fruits.

Angel

 

[palmas85]

wannabee:

Umm 15 people in 90 mins - Yes ?

That averages out at 6 minutes per person - is that too long ?

I don’t know, is it?

 

[palmas85]

puzzleannie:

If 90 minutes is the published schedule for confessions, the priest has to sit in the confessional for 90 minutes, whether anyone comes or not, so he can’t be getting anything else done except catching up on his breviary, reading, etc. Perhaps this priest has the time to give each of those 15 people spiritual direction and counselling, rather than just absolution and a penance. If even one of those persons is coming back to the Church after a 30 year mis-spent life, his time will be well occupied on that day.

You are quite right. He does. And I think that is probably just what he signed up to do when he decided to get himself ordained. I always understood the position of a Priest was a calling, something that was of a slightly higher nature than a 9-5 everyday job.

I was commenting more on the fact that so few people avail themselves of the opportunity to take advantage of the confessional these days, and how that lack of work may be something that also adversely affects those entering the Priesthood.

Not being a Priest I wouldn’t know, but I would think they are fairly pro-active type individuals, kind of like firemen and cops, who actually like getting involved in things and trying to fix them. If nobody shows up to get absolution or if only a few do, then I can imagine the Priest would start to get frustrated and maybe just maybe start to feel that he is just spinning his wheels. Being underworked for a pro-active type person is just as bad as being overworked.

 

[5-Decades-a-Day]

palmas85:

If nobody shows up to get absolution or if only a few do, then I can imagine the Priest would start to get frustrated and maybe just maybe start to feel that he is just spinning his wheels. Being underworked for a pro-active type person is just as bad as being overworked.

There is no such thing as an “underworked” priest. The priest’s job is to preach, teach, and sanctify. If he doesn’t have enough sanctifying to do, then he has a lot of preaching and teaching to do.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Kielbasi:

Is the priest shortage real, and if so, how severe is it?

There were definitely plenty more active priests in the US back in the day.

But since then, mass attendance has dipped, and the number of confessions have dipped even more. Hearing confessions are a lot of work for the priest as they can only do one at a time. There are fewer schools, and less work in the schools for priests to do, and many of the tasks previously done by priests are now done by deacons and layfolk.

Of course , the total number of Catholics continues to rise, so there are an ever increasing number of baptisms, marriages and funerals for the fewer number of priests to do.

Overall, how much of a priest shortage is there really?

The priest shortage is contrived and this does not become visible until you learn how valid candidates were being filtered out - en masse. Now that it is out in the open and staff changes are happening at seminaries (getting rid of the filterers), it is even more visible. How?

The most orthodox of diocese, such as Lincoln among others noted in a book by Michael S. Rose are booming with vocations. The book gives staggering numbers, contrasting dioceses such as Milwaukee, which is very liberal or progressive and an orthodox city. While some dioceses are cranking out many priests, Milwaukee has very few. Ditto with Los Angeles. Of course, Mahony is crying the loudest about teh shortage.

Here are just the first three chapters of the book, Goodbye! Good Men, by Michael S. Rose. I highly recommend it for anyone who wonders about the shortage.

CHAPTER 1 **
A Manmade Crisis***
Why Archbishop Curtiss said the priest shortage is “artificial and contrived”*

         CHAPTER 2 **
    Stifling the Call***
    How for some men the road to ordination is cut short         before it really begins*

         CHAPTER 3**
    The Gatekeeper Phenomenon
    ***How good men are unjustly screened out during the         seminary application process*

 

[Brain]

Regarding confession, no time spent in the confesional is ever a waste. the priest is first for the sacraments and second for all the mundane stuff.

 

[Trick]

I think there is a severe shortage of priest.

I think we need to all pray for vocations.

We should all try to sincerely live our Catholic faith and share our love of Christ with those that we meet.

Let’s encourage our sons to be open to the priesthood .

Trick

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Here is an article that appeared in The Wanderer, written by my pastor, Fr. Eduard Perrone just a few months ago. It actually came from the weekly bulletin, but was picked up by the Catholic weekly.

Here is one small excerpt:

“Sad to tell, there is yet more to this dismal picture. This concerns not the seminary directly but what precedes it. This is the process of interview and evaluation of the candidates. Here they are screened so that those deemed unsuitable are barred from entry into the seminary.

“While one might think it a good and necessary thing, one would be shocked to learn that those refused are not those who were found wanting in orthodox Catholic faith or who [fail to] practice traditional forms of Catholic piety but rather those who give evidence of those very things. The special tool employed for this process of exclusion of candidates is psychological testing with a follow-up evaluation by a psychologist.

“If a candidate is found to be too ‘rigid’ (a cherished term in their lexicon) because he holds to certain Catholic beliefs and religious practices, he is rejected as one unsuitable for the diocesan priesthood. One may wonder who these expert psychologists are who wield such power in determining priestly vocations. I answer with a single example…[see link above for entire article]

 

[Brain]

Lux_et_veritas:

Here is an article that appeared in The Wanderer, written by my pastor, Fr. Eduard Perrone just a few months ago. It actually came from the weekly bulletin, but was picked up by the Catholic weekly.

Here is one small excerpt:

“Sad to tell, there is yet more to this dismal picture. This concerns not the seminary directly but what precedes it. This is the process of interview and evaluation of the candidates. Here they are screened so that those deemed unsuitable are barred from entry into the seminary.

“While one might think it a good and necessary thing, one would be shocked to learn that those refused are not those who were found wanting in orthodox Catholic faith or who [fail to] practice traditional forms of Catholic piety but rather those who give evidence of those very things. The special tool employed for this process of exclusion of candidates is psychological testing with a follow-up evaluation by a psychologist.

“If a candidate is found to be too ‘rigid’ (a cherished term in their lexicon) because he holds to certain Catholic beliefs and religious practices, he is rejected as one unsuitable for the diocesan priesthood. One may wonder who these expert psychologists are who wield such power in determining priestly vocations. I answer with a single example…[see link above for entire article]

Don’t scare me like that! I’ve got my interview in a few weeks!

 

[acadian]

We seem to have a bit of a shortage, as we share our pastor with another parish. It’s a bit like having divorced parents - we have him every other weekend, Monday and Wednesday daily Masses, and every other Christmas. We have a “sacramental minister” who is also the chaplain at several area hospitals who fills in on the “other weekends” and says Thursday and Friday daily Masses for us.

Fortunately, they haven’t closed any churches or eliminated any Masses - at this point.

 

[Crumpy]

Yes, there is a lack of priests.

None of the 9 churches in my small town (35,000) has closed its doors, but there are only 8 priests for these parishes.

Our diocese started “clustering” parishes to concentrate resources. There are about 70 active priests for 110 parishes, and most of those priests are over 50.

So, sure, there’s a big lack of priests in the diocese of Saginaw (Michigan).

When our late bishop went to Rome to see the Pope for one of his regular 5-year visits, he remarked to John Paul II about how few priests there were. Pope John Paul is said to have remarked to him “You should see Poland!”

Perhaps there are many young adult catholics who don’t remember having several priests in their parish. But, you can still see the large rectories that were built to house them.

Besides the actual parish work of liturgy and sacraments, where lay ministers were non existent, the junior priests had a chance for ongoing training and guidance from the pastor / senior priests.

There’s very little chance for this in this diocese, at present. You know, one immediate effect of the low number of priests is that there are days on which there is no priest, and thus no Mass.

It’s quite a sacrifice for the priest to be able to show up in the Catholic schools as much as they did before.

Cellular phone technology can only help so much, to keep a priest running on simply tighter and tighter schedules.

When a priest attends an event, his presence fills the room. Usually most people want a piece of the priest for some social elbowing.

There’s only one devotion in this parish, a rosary is said on the day the priest returns from his time off.

In larger parishes and in larger cities, the pressures are undoubtedly greater on the priest’s time, especially with the unanticipated funerals and such.

Although it was common to baptize and confirm at Mass in the early church, in my youth these sacraments were administered in separate ceremonies. In this vein, my niece was married at an early Saturday weekend Mass, instead of a dedicated marriage Mass.

And, what’s more, she had actually brought her own priest from another city! I don’t know what they would have done for that Mass, to begin with, if she hadn’t brought her own priest with her.
The resident priest took advantage of that situation to be someplace else!

What’s missing also, is the lack of priests to staff positions at the Diocesan level. While it may be very progressive to have a lay woman act as the chancellor of the diocese, that position was filled by a priest in the past.

And, as hinted, the parish priests are doing double duty in the clusters and diocese-wide activities.

The lack of priests makes vacations difficult to cover in a parish.

I was in one parish which had a different sort of a problem. They actually DID have two priests, but the level of contributions was so low, that they couldn’t even pay the salary of the assistant priest, with all the existing budget commitments. The pastor simply told the people without exaggeration or embellishment that they’d lose the second priest if they didn’t come up with more money.

AND, DON’T FORGET, like in this town, we’ve lost nearly all the nuns. We don’t have priests to take up that slack, either.

OK, now, go to those other threads about the lack of evangelization of the last two generations of Catholics.

 

[Toni]

I believe we see this more in the Diocese and the liberal orders in the Church.

 

[gelsbern]

Brain:

Don’t scare me like that! I’ve got my interview in a few weeks!

As one of the “screened out” ones, I will pray for you that your interview goes well.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Brain:

Don’t scare me like that! I’ve got my interview in a few weeks!

If you get an uneasy feeling at any point, don’t give up on your vocation. Rather, if you really want to be a diocesan priest, consider moving to a diocese that is known for its orthodoxy.

This, from a study done by Human Life International, may have changed somewhat due to changes in church hierarchy, but for the most part I think it is still good. One exception I know of for sure is that Detroit has shifted toward’s the middle as progressive professors have been replaced with orthodox professors, such as Dr. Robert Fastiggi and Dr. Janet Smith, among others (and I highly recommend reading “published articles” by Janet Smith found in the right hand bar of her page). Orthodox young men are making it through and there is a network of them all working together and, with orthodox priests in the diocese.

HLI found the following 15 dioceses to be in the “orthodox” category: Amarillo, Texas; Arlington, Virginia; Atlanta, Georgia; Baltimore, Maryland; Corpus Christi, Texas; Denver, Colorado; Fargo, North Dakota; Fort Wayne-South Bend, Indiana; Lincoln and Omaha, Nebraska; Peoria, Illinois; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Sioux Falls, South Dakota; Steubenville, Ohio; and Wichita, Kansas.

The following 15 dioceses were considered to be in the “progressive” category: Chicago, Illinois; Detroit and Grand Rapids, Michigan; Los Angeles, California; Madison and Milwaukee, Wisconsin; New Ulm, Minnesota; Phoenix, Arizona; Portland, Maine; Rockville Centre, New York; San Bernadino, San Diego and San Francisco, California; Seattle, Washington; and Tucson, Arizona.

HLI conceded that the terms “orthodox” and “progressive” were “necessarily subjective”, but explained that the 15 dioceses “of each persuasion” were selected "after an extensive review of articles carried in four publications over the past 30 years: **National Catholic Reporter, National Catholic Register, Commonweal and The Wanderer.
**

Otherwise, I would encourage young men to study at places like Steubenville or Ave Maria Univeristy first, which are known for their orthodoxy. Get the core if it down so you don’t get fed the kind of heresy that has been passed off in some seminaries (i.e., Jesus did not know he was God, push for women priests, and spending more time challenging the magisterium than prudently supporting it).

One last alternative is to look at orders like the Fathers of Mercy (they do much preaching), the Order of Canons Regular of the Holy Cross (contemplative and do preaching/retreats, in particular for other priests and religious) or Miles Christi. All of these where cassocks - a sign of orthodoxy (something the young, orthodox diocesan priests are starting to do as wel). There are others, but these come to mind. The canons are in my backyard. The Archdiocese of Detroit just got them a grant to build a monastery in Detroit, their first bonafide house in the US. Their formation house is in brazil. They have been assisting at my parish as they waited out their status change for the past decade and are awesome priests.

I think you will notice in these orders, the youthfulness of them. Many of the younger priests are not buying in to the loose or errant theology of their predecessors, at least from where I’m sitting and what I see. Many have had to learn on their own by studying the catechism through and through, and sticking with theologians like Fr. John A. Hardon, Ratzinger, Von Balthasaar, etc.