Is there a movement for Catholic and Orthodox to join back together?

[CampionTheChampion]

What do you mean it would removed the sacramental economy from all rites?

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

Let’s recap some. Arius disrupted the Eastern Alexandrian Apostolic see with his Arian heresy. Some eastern bishop’s sided with Arius over and against the bishop of Alexandria Alexander.

Arius was never a Bishop only a priest, so he was not allowed to sit in the Council of Nicea. But an Eastern Bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia, (not to be confused with Eusebius of Caesarea) took Arius position and presented it to the council, in an effort to rebuke the bishop of Alexandria, (Alexander) for having Arius teachings condemned in Alexandria Egypt.

The Arian heresy has it’s root’s in the East and infected some Eastern Bishop’s and found it’s way to the West Via the Arian Goth’s.

 

[OriginalGabrielof12]

What do you mean it would removed the sacramental economy from all rites?

Correct. Without the procession of the Trinity of persons we do not have the sacramental graces that come to us through the sacramental economy.From all Rites.

Do you think that God the Father will skip over His beloved Son and send us the Paraclete directly from the Father without the Son?

If this was the apostolic faith, then there is no need for the Son.
Thus without the procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father and the Son, you have no sacramental economy.

We are not discussing by rigid terms the Principle by which the Holy Spirit proceeds as the CCC teachings.

 

[Vonsalza]

The Arian heresy has it’s root’s in the East and infected some Eastern Bishop’s and found it’s way to the West Via the Arian Goth’s.

The Arian heresy has its roots in Arius, a north African Berber. While his locus of support naturally gathered around him in his physical location of Alexandria, he had support across the empire before his position was deemed heretical at Nicaea and later just across the Bosphorus in Constantinople.

Within 50 years of Nicaea, Arianism was dead in the eastern Imperial Court.

Arianism would endure in the fallen west for nearly another half millennium via the migrations that collapsed the western Roman Empire.

The notion that Arianism is, somehow, an “eastern” concept is a bizarre one. If I had to guess, it’s forwarded by people who wish to preserve the historical theological integrity of the west via revisionism.

 

[CampionTheChampion]

You’ve missed my original point. The problem isn’t whether the Filoque is sound, the problem is that it symbolizes the divide between the east and west. Christians did just fine without the Filoque in the creed for hundreds of years, so we can give it up liturgically. It’s not like Arianism is a threat at the moment.

 

[dvdjs]

Why are so many Roman Catholics so zealous to label Arianism as “eastern”?

Because it is an Eastern heresy.
Arius was an Alexandrian Bishop. The heresy flourished for a period Consatninople. During that period a Gothic convert to the prevailing Arian Christianity was sent on a mission to convert Germanic tribes to Arian Christianity. The Arianism of the Goths is of Constantinopolitan origin.

 

[dvdjs]

how about the roman & orthodox just say ’ it’s all over; NOW we are are a unified CHURCH; as we should’ve been for all these tears & years; THE SCHISM IS OVER

Half of that has already been done. The Catholic Church accepts Orthodox Christians as communicants.

 

[AlNg]

Half of that has already been done. The Catholic Church accepts Orthodox Christians as communicants.

I don’t think that the Catholic Church accepts all of the teachings of the Orthodox Church.

 

[dvdjs]

I don’t think that the Catholic Church accepts all of the teachings of the Orthodox Church.

Not the Oriental Orthodox, but the CC certainly accepts all of the teachings of the first millennial undivided church. Have the Eastern Orthodox developed new dogmas on their own since then?

 

[Augustinian]

the CC certainly accepts all of the teachings of the first millennial undivided church. Have the Eastern Orthodox developed new dogmas on their own since then?

I don’t know about that at all. Our Eastern Orthodox friends have much different fasting requirements, requirements and procedures for sacraments, and many other things. The Catholic Church may not consider these differences as important differences in teaching, but they disagree. Indeed, Greeks often require converts from the Catholic Church to be re-baptized as they don’t hold to the validity of the Catholic rite.

It might not take that much for the Catholic Church to accept the EO- but there would seem to be a lot to do to get the same acceptance in both directions.

 

[dvdjs]

Eastern Orthodox friends have much different fasting requirements, requirements and procedures for sacraments, and many other things

The CC fully accepts the prerogative of the other Churches to establish their own rules for fasting and has not objection AFAIK to EO requirements and procedures.

Greeks often require converts from the Catholic Church to be re-baptized as they don’t hold to the validity of the Catholic rite.

There is quite a history to the issue of sacramental economy. Short summary: over history, for the most part there has been mutual recognition of sacraments even in schism, laced with periods of stricter practice, typically associated with some political tension and rationalized with some innovative theologizing.

The typical pattern for millions of Catholics in Eastern Europe who enrolled in Orthodox churches involved no rite whatsoever. In my grandparents village, after WWII, an Orthodox and a Communist party official came and “persuaded” him to sign papers turning over the church to Orthodoxy. He signed. After that he was subject to an Orthodox bishop, rather that his bishop who was in prison. And the parishioners were considered Orthodox. But nothing else was done and nothing of substance changed: the priest even continued to commemorate the Pope of Rome in the liturgy.

 

[Augustinian]

The CC fully accepts the prerogative of the other Churches to establish their own rules for fasting and has not objection AFAIK to EO requirements and procedures.

Fair enough, but the EO might not feel the same way. They may think that everyone needs to follow their established procedures, particularly when on EO property.

 

[dvdjs]

Fair enough, but the EO might not feel the same way

Of course. They do have their feelings on these matters.

Orthodox Christianity in the 21st Century | Pew Research Center

 

[AlNg]

the CC certainly accepts all of the teachings of the first millennial undivided church.

I am somewhat surprised to learn that the CC teaches:
No filioque
No Immaculate Conception
No papal infallibility
No universal papal jurisdiction.
No purgatory
No indulgences.

 

[hafiz.ikram567]

Have not read anything of this sort.

 

[Augustinian]

Of course. They do have their feelings on these matters.

Would the Catholic Church be willing to adopt EO style fasting and other regulations for the Latin Rite if it would facilitate reunion with the EO?

 

[AlNg]

In my grandparents village, after WWII, an Orthodox and a Communist party official came and “persuaded” him to sign papers turning over the church to Orthodoxy. He signed. After that he was subject to an Orthodox bishop, rather that his bishop who was in prison.

Is it true that in WWII Ukraine some of the Eastern rite Catholics favored the Germans and took a stand against the Russians? And is it true that in Croatia, during WWII, Serbian Orthodox were encouraged to convert to either Roman Catholicism or to a schismatic Eastern rite Church? And that many of those who did not convert were sent to the Jasenovac concentration camp?

 

[dvdjs]

No filioque
No Immaculate Conception
No papal infallibility
No universal papal jurisdiction.
No purgatory
No indulgences.

I am surprised that you think that these “no …” are Orthodox dogma of the first millennium.

 

[dvdjs]

Would the Catholic Church be willing to adopt EO style fasting and other regulations for the Latin Rite if it would facilitate reunion with the EO?

Orthodox Churches would have to go against their own perspectives on fasting to request it.

 

[dvdjs]

Is it true that in WWII Ukraine some of the Eastern rite Catholics favored the Germans and took a stand against the Russians?

I suspect that many people in Ukraine sought liberation from the yoke of those responsible for the holodomor and would even engage with the Nazi to secure that liberation.

And is it true that in Croatia, during WWII, Serbian Orthodox were encouraged to convert to either Roman Catholicism or to a schismatic Eastern rite Church?

Many Croatians also thought to position themselves in WWII to be free of Serb domination. The regime was brutal, but the CC sought a way to help, realizing that after the chaos and horror of the war, people would ve free to revert.

I am not sure what you mean by “a schismatic Eastern rite Church”, but I recommend that you edit the post.
With who did make a Križevci schism?

\

And that many of those who did not convert were sent to the Jasenovac concentration camp?

There has been much literature and action against the Catholic clergy of that era. But the investigations were part were from the Communist era and part of the Communist agenda to undermine a church that they could not control. Where the actual truth lies is hard to say.

I responded patiently to your questions. But I wonder why you asked them. They have no relevance whatsoever to anything that I have posted and seem gratuitously insult against the Catholic Church. Surely, there is some other point that you were trying to make.