Is there a need for conversion?

[minkymurph]

I am inviting comments from Catholics and non-Catholics alike. Is there a need for conversion? If someone believes in Our Lord Jesus Christ, believes in the forgiveness of sins, and has been raised in a non-Catholic Christian faith, do we need to covert them to Catholicsim in order for them to enter heaven? For all non-Catholics, do you believe Catholics, do you believe they must leave Catholicism for them to enter heaven? In my personal opinion which I would stress is not infallible, I believe all pass through purgatory if they do not reach perfection of faith in this life. That goes for all denominations Catholicism included. I believe it is only possible to enter heaven without passing thorugh purgatory if you fully enter into the sacramental life of the Church. I have a good friend, who claims not to be a fundamentalist, to me she is but I understand why she objects to the term as it conjurs up all sorts of negative images and I have no desire to insult her, but her mind is so closed. She believes I am ‘saved,’ whether I like it or not, but as Catholic am unique. I have no desire to destroy her faith but I have serious difficulties with her theology. We have had many an intense debate and I have made a real defence of my faith but I have reached the point where I no longer want to discuss faith with her. It always ends in an arguement and as someone said to me, ‘win an arguement, loose a friend.’ Her husband is Catholic and he refuses to discuss anything with her. He just says Church is right which really annoys her but I can understand why. He doesn’t want her preaching ‘once saved always saved’ all the time and argueing. When she brings her beliefs up with me now I just say, ‘you know what I think, we have to agree to differ.’ The sad thing is she is a long standing friend of mine. She has no other friends and I think is it because she harps on about the Lord, being saved, Romans and Ephesians all the time and people can’t be bothered. To be honest I can’t be bothered. I’m probably the only friend she has and I’m fairly tolerant but I’ve reached the stage where I like her and I would never turn my back on her but all we do is debate religion, what’s the point? I think she just loves to argue and I feel I don’t want to bother with her anymore. I don’t want to cut her off completely but we have nothing in common other than debates on religion and as a result, I feel I can’t be bothered anymore and just go, be saved, get on with it and don’t bother me which is sad. What do I do?

 

[DJgang]

The one, and in my opinion, only one issue that ALL Christians should agree on and do something about TODAY…is…

abortion!

Our country needs a conversion to being pro-life, valuing all human beings from the moment of conception…instead… we have this…

Found at Religious Tolerance
Pro-choice groups:

*Liberal and some mainline denominations: *In general, these either promote a woman’s right to choose an abortion, or are relatively silent on the matter. A number of liberal and mainline Christian and Jewish faith groups and organizations have publicly stated that abortions are sometimes an acceptable option, and should remain legal. According to lists prepared by The Secular Web and the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, they include, in alphabetic order:
American Baptist Churches-USA (see below),
American Ethical Union,
American Friends (Quaker) Service Committee,
American Jewish Committee,
American Jewish Congress,
Central Conference of American Rabbis,
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ),
Council of Jewish Federations,
Episcopal Church (USA),
Federation of Reconstructionist Congregations and Havurot,Moravian Church in America-Northern Province,
Na’Amat USA,
National Council of Jewish Women,
Presbyterian Church (USA),
*Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, *
Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints,
Union of American Hebrew Congregations,
Unitarian Universalist Association,
United Church of Christ,
United Methodist Church,
United Synagogue for Conservative Judaism.

Abortion is destroying our country.

There is alot of issues that Christians can unite on. Instead, we allow satan to rule our conversations, our mouths and harm everyone.

 

[minkymurph]

The one, and in my opinion, only one issue that ALL Christians should agree on and do something about TODAY…is…

abortion!

Well, my fundamentalist friend would have no objection whatsoever to what you are saying. That is one issue where we have no disagreement. My friend joined with Catholic nuns in her fight against abortion. I live in Northern Ireland and for years abortion has been illegal here and still is. Now, there has been a change in legislation and many are trying to introduce abortion by the back door which born again Christians in conjuntion with the Catholic Church are fighting very hard to stop. It is argued that Northern Ireland is part of the UK where abortion is legal and as we are part of Britain it should all be the same as women are going to England to have abortions and the trauma of travel is adding to their dilemha. The thing is the majority of people in the North of Ireland do not want it to be made legal. They want to maintain the right to legislate themselves. In the ongoing debate it was said that in Britain, one in four pregancies end in abortion. That is a frightening statistic, it is totally out of control and people here do not want that but they are being accused of being religious fanatics. These abortions are not the result of incest or rape incidently and every mainstream Christian Church has joined in the fight to prevent this new legislation. I really feel for women who are led to believe this is their only option and the beaurocrats don’t care about the fall out. They just want the problem solved short term. Where are the beaurocratics when you need to pick up the pieces of your life? NOwhere to be found. I read the sad case of a 14 year old in Britain who got pregnant. She went to a health worker in the school to arrange an abortion without her mother knowing as her friend had had an abortion without her mother knowing and she wanted one too. The health workers excuse was it was what she wanted and she had the right. Her mother was not consulted and she was not the kind of mother who would have freaked out. A year later she was pregnant again and her mother belives it was guilt because she did not have the first child. How can anyone say this is good and is in the individual or societies best interests? No one talked to her; it was just ‘if that’s what you want?’ I really feel that many women are pressured into thinking abortion is their only option. Not true. For all here, join us in our prayers this legislation will not be passed in Northern Ireland. I feel many women will really regret it if it is.

 

[mark_a]

If conversion helps one sin less, then conversion is preferable.

The big issues between Catholics and Protestants used to concern faith issues. Now the big issues are moral (ie abortion and even much more so contraception). Most Protestants will not face this, because their churches teach contraception or are silent about it, and keep bringing up the same old 491 year old (theological) debates.

I feel for you and your situation with your friend. If even her husband cannot stand to discuss theology with her, it sounds like she is uncharitable and lacks mutual respect.

 

[minkymurph]

If conversion helps one sin less, then conversion is preferable.

I feel for you and your situation with your friend. If even her husband cannot stand to discuss theology with her, it sounds like she is uncharitable and lacks mutual respect.

It’s horrible. I love her as a friend and we never discuss what we have in common because when we do, it always comes down to Calvinism, once saved always saved. I am a very open minded person and unlike my friends husband, who is very traditional and I am not knocking him, I have no problem agreeing with her if I think the same. Her husband is 'Church says, Church is right which does not appeal to her but I wonder if he says it to avoid arguement. Now, I no longer debate, I say ‘that is what we believe.’ End of story, we have to agree to differ. What amazes me is she knows what I will say and still tries to get the debate. I no longer give her that. She believes what she believes; I belive what I believe. Why does she thrash out the same arguements when she knows what I will say? Why the attraction for debate on Catholic belief? She is well aware of what I will say? I feel her husband just sticks to Church says because she annoys him because of her attitude ie: ‘Catholics don’t know the bible’ and he avoids the debate. Don’t blame him, waste of time. What gets me is she says baptism is not a sacrament. It’s a symbol. She’s into Calvinism but in the next breath says you can recieve it as a sacrament you don’t need a Priest? Okay but it’s either a sacrament or it’s not. You can’t have it both ways. I belive baptism by desire exists but if it’s not a sacrament and you don’t need to receive it as a sacrament, what’s the issue? She believes marriage is not a sacrament, so how can she say you can receive it as a sacrament without a Priest? If it’s not a sacrament what difference does it make? Why does she insist she can receive these sacraments but in the next breath say they are not sacraments? What she want? It’s got to the stage where I don’t want to discuss anything because I can’t make head or tail of what she says. She says Christ was God but Mary was not Mother of God. Which is it? I have explained until I am blue in the face. OK, she does not accept my explaination. What is hers? She says Jesus was the part of God you can see, Father God is the part we can’t see. I asked her if she believes Jesus was fully God. She said yes. I’m confused because I don’t understand who she believes Jesus was. Therefore, do I give up and don’t discuss, refuse to be drawn because she knows what I think and why? But why does she keep going over the same ground knowing what I will say? I felt one time she was being drawn to Catholicism, now I don’t know and think I should no longer talk to her about my faith. If she is sure of what she believes, why debate with me knowing what I will say?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I am inviting comments from Catholics and non-Catholics alike. Is there a need for conversion? If someone believes in Our Lord Jesus Christ, believes in the forgiveness of sins, and has been raised in a non-Catholic Christian faith, do we need to covert them to Catholicsim in order for them to enter heaven? For all non-Catholics, do you believe Catholics, do you believe they must leave Catholicism for them to enter heaven? In my personal opinion which I would stress is not infallible, I believe all pass through purgatory if they do not reach perfection of faith in this life. That goes for all denominations Catholicism included. I believe it is only possible to enter heaven without passing thorugh purgatory if you fully enter into the sacramental life of the Church. I have a good friend, who claims not to be a fundamentalist, to me she is but I understand why she objects to the term as it conjurs up all sorts of negative images and I have no desire to insult her, but her mind is so closed. She believes I am ‘saved,’ whether I like it or not, but as Catholic am unique. I have no desire to destroy her faith but I have serious difficulties with her theology. We have had many an intense debate and I have made a real defence of my faith but I have reached the point where I no longer want to discuss faith with her. It always ends in an arguement and as someone said to me, ‘win an arguement, loose a friend.’ Her husband is Catholic and he refuses to discuss anything with her. He just says Church is right which really annoys her but I can understand why. He doesn’t want her preaching ‘once saved always saved’ all the time and argueing. When she brings her beliefs up with me now I just say, ‘you know what I think, we have to agree to differ.’ The sad thing is she is a long standing friend of mine. She has no other friends and I think is it because she harps on about the Lord, being saved, Romans and Ephesians all the time and people can’t be bothered. To be honest I can’t be bothered. I’m probably the only friend she has and I’m fairly tolerant but I’ve reached the stage where I like her and I would never turn my back on her but all we do is debate religion, what’s the point? I think she just loves to argue and I feel I don’t want to bother with her anymore. I don’t want to cut her off completely but we have nothing in common other than debates on religion and as a result, I feel I can’t be bothered anymore and just go, be saved, get on with it and don’t bother me which is sad. What do I do?

I really feel for your position. I have members of my family that I can not talk religion or politic with as we sit on the opposite side of most all issues when either are discussed. One thing I have learn to do is when ever they bring up a topic that we are going to disagree on is smile, say really and change the subject. It does not always work but I am getting better at it. God is helping to realize that I do not have to comment every time someone says something that I fell is wrong. Good Luck the best thing to do is pray.

 

[minkymurph]

I really feel for your position. I have members of my family that I can not talk religion or politic with as we sit on the opposite side of most all issues when either are discussed. One thing I have learn to do is when ever they bring up a topic that we are going to disagree on is smile, say really and change the subject. It does not always work but I am getting better at it. God is helping to realize that I do not have to comment every time someone says something that I fell is wrong. Good Luck the best thing to do is pray.

Ah yes, I have reached that point. Your right, I do not feel I have to comment all the time. I just smile and say ‘I don’t see it that way and you know why.’ It just amazes me why she persists in the same debate. Does she need the certainty of people agreeing with her? I don’t feel that same need. I don’t care if people disagree with me because as I have often said to my friend, ‘its my opinion which is not infallible but there are reasons why I say what I do.’ I ask though, does my friend need to covert?’ I do believe her faith will be perfected in purgatory, I believe full conversion happens there, which she has a real problem with. She believes of course purgatory does not exist and I will go straight to heaven. In which case, I am quids in as I have said to her because I will be in heaven. If she finds out purgatory does exist, well?

 

[mark_a]

If she is sure of what she believes, why debate with me knowing what I will say?

Maybe she lacks maturity and you’ll need to plainly tell her why you don’t want to discuss these issues with her.

Thanks for the reminder that I need to forbid (yeah, right) my kids to marry non-Catholics. I’m on my way right now.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Ah yes, I have reached that point. Your right, I do not feel I have to comment all the time. I just smile and say ‘I don’t see it that way and you know why.’ It just amazes me why she persists in the same debate. Does she need the certainty of people agreeing with her? I don’t feel that same need. I don’t care if people disagree with me because as I have often said to my friend, ‘its my opinion which is not infallible but there are reasons why I say what I do.’ I ask though, does my friend need to covert?’ I do believe her faith will be perfected in purgatory, I believe full conversion happens there, which she has a real problem with. She believes of course purgatory does not exist and I will go straight to heaven. In which case, I am quids in as I have said to her because I will be in heaven. If she finds out purgatory does exist, well?

Well in my opinion all need to convert. But as that will not very likely happen I just pray for them as I do all. As for your friend she may need to argue just slow work away from it into conversation led it into other subjects such as movies books, etc… She will find out that purgatory is real just hope she does not think it hell when she does.

 

[Contarini]

I am inviting comments from Catholics and non-Catholics alike. Is there a need for conversion? If someone believes in Our Lord Jesus Christ, believes in the forgiveness of sins, and has been raised in a non-Catholic Christian faith, do we need to covert them to Catholicsim in order for them to enter heaven? For all non-Catholics, do you believe Catholics, do you believe they must leave Catholicism for them to enter heaven?

Absolutely not.

As for whether there is a need for conversion, of course there is. Pope John Paul II liked to talk about “continuing conversion”–we all need to be converted to Jesus every day. And as we try to follow Jesus better, sometimes we discover that there are ways we are practicing the Christian faith that need to be changed. I have obviously not so far concluded that conversion to Jesus requires me to enter communion with Rome as an individual, but I do think that it requires me to seek union with Rome (being the See of St. Peter and all), and so I can easily understand and respect those who make the jump as individuals (indeed, I keep re-evaluating whether I need to do this myself).

Edwin

 

[Christy_Beth]

The one and only conversion we need is the conversion to Jesus. Our stance against abortion won’t save us. Nor will any other stance if Jesus isn’t the sole factor. Our actions need to be done in obedience to Him, with great love for Him.

 

[minkymurph]

Absolutely not.

As for whether there is a need for conversion, of course there is. Pope John Paul II liked to talk about “continuing conversion”–we all need to be converted to Jesus every day. And as we try to follow Jesus better, sometimes we discover that there are ways we are practicing the Christian faith that need to be changed. Edwin

Ah, you are a man after my own heart. I also believe in continuing conversion, it is not a once in a lifetime experience which is what I try to explain to my friend who thinks it is. We are continually being converted to Christ every day. If I may ask, what is Espicaplian? Sorry if I spelt it wrong but I have never heard of it. Is it Anglican or something else? I have often seen it mentioned on this forum but I don’t really know what it is. What theological differences do you have with Catholicism?

 

[Cathdefender]

If in Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition it clearly states that Jesus started the Catholic faith, if there is true concrete evidence historically (and there is), then I would hope people would see the light and the truth and convert to the Catholic faith.