Is there a passage in the bible stating "works of rightousness are as filthy rags"?

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I believe there is a passage in Isaiah that’s along those lines. But I’m not sure. :confused:
 
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kramerbaby:
i have a friend who quoted this and i would like to know
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Look at Isaiah 64 - and read the context 🙂​

 
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kramerbaby:
thank you! could you tell me what that means?
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1 Oh, that You would rend the heavens! That You would come down! That the mountains might shake at Your presence–
2 As fire burns brushwood, as fire causes water to boil-- to make Your name known to Your adversaries, that the nations may tremble at Your presence!
3 When You did awesome things for which we did not look, you came down, the mountains shook at Your presence.
4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard nor perceived by the ear, nor has the eye seen any God besides You, who acts for the one who waits for Him.
5 You meet him who rejoices and does righteousness, who remembers You in Your ways. You are indeed angry, for we have sinned-- in these ways we continue; and we need to be saved.
6 But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; we all fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
7 And there is no one who calls on Your name, who stirs himself up to take hold of You; for You have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our iniquities.
8 But now, O LORD, you are our Father; we are the clay, and You our potter; and all we are the work of Your hand.
9 Do not be furious, O LORD, nor remember iniquity forever; indeed, please look-- we all are Your people!
10 Your holy cities are a wilderness, Zion is a wilderness, Jerusalem a desolation.
11 Our holy and beautiful temple, where our fathers praised You, is burned up with fire; and all our pleasant things are laid waste.
12 Will You restrain Yourself because of these things, O LORD? Will You hold Your peace, and afflict us very severely?
(NKJ)
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In a nutshell, the prophet is lamenting the Kingdom of Judah’s status of being a conquered nation (vv 10-11) because of the sinfulness of the people (vv 5b-7). He illustrates how sinful the people are by stating that even the “righteous” things that the people do are like, literally, “rags of filth” in the eyes of God.

The term “filthy rags/rags of filth” is actually very graphic. It refers specifically to the rags that women would wear during their time of the month.

DaveBj
 
I have a friend who is Baptist and quotes this continually, no matter what religious subject we talk about. Why would she do that?
 
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kramerbaby:
I have a friend who is Baptist and quotes this continually, no matter what religious subject we talk about. Why would she do that?
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She might be using it as an excuse not to do any good works at all, as in, “If all our righteous acts are like filthy rags, might as well not try to do good, just be ourselves and let ‘once saved always saved’ get us in the door.”

I’m not saying your friend is like that, but I’ve known Baptists who were.

DaveBj
 
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DaveBj:
She might be using it as an excuse not to do any good works at all, as in, “If all our righteous acts are like filthy rags, might as well not try to do good, just be ourselves and let ‘once saved always saved’ get us in the door.”

I’m not saying your friend is like that, but I’ve known Baptists who were.

DaveBj
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Please take note of the fact that neither the Prophet nor Paul actually say that “righteous works are as filthy rags”. They both say “OUR” Righteusness. We know that the works of Faith as enabled by Grace are not OUR Righteousness but the Righteousness of God in Christ. We become acceptable to God when we do HIS Righteous Works. Because YES Our Righteousness is as Filthy Rags.

Please dont let a fundie fool you by switching the words around.
 
but in my Catholic Women’s Bible, Isaiah 64:6 says “and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy cloth” Deeds. so what is that saying?
 
anybody? and she is a very good person, but I stil dont understand why, even when we talk about something other than religious topics, it manages to make its way into conversations. I dont mind it, it is just that I dont know what to say to it, and why she does it. Help!
 
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kramerbaby:
but in my Catholic Women’s Bible, Isaiah 64:6 says “and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy cloth” Deeds. so what is that saying?
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My New American Bible, Official CatholicBible says the following
(talking to God) Isaiah 64:2-5 While you wrought awesome deeds we could not hope for, such as they had not heard of from old. No ear has ever heard, no eye ever seen, any God but you doing such deeds for those who wait for him. Would that you might meet us doing right, that we were mindful of you in our ways! Behold, you are angry, and we are sinful; all of us have become like unclean men, all our good deeds are like polluted rags; We have all withered like leaves, and our guilt carries us away like the wind. * I am no scholar, but this seems to me that Isaiah is saying that compared to what God does, our acts our nothing. He does say that he wishes God could see them doing right, and says that since they have all fallen into such sinfullness, they have become like unclean men. Also, I think that since this is the Old Testament, and Jesus had not yet come to die for the sins of the world at the time of this writing, that it would be completely out of context to say that now.
Next time someone throws that line at you, counter with this one, James 2:24-26 * See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route? For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Hope this helps. 🙂
 
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metal1633:
Please take note of the fact that neither the Prophet nor Paul actually say that “righteous works are as filthy rags”. They both say “OUR” Righteusness. We know that the works of Faith as enabled by Grace are not OUR Righteousness but the Righteousness of God in Christ. We become acceptable to God when we do HIS Righteous Works. Because YES Our Righteousness is as Filthy Rags.

Please dont let a fundie fool you by switching the words around.
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Actually, that’s precisely what Isaiah is saying. The word in question is “tsidqothey-nu,” “righteous-acts (plural)-of us.” The singular, “ts’daqah”, is “righteousness,” but when it’s used in the plural it means “righteousnesses” = “righteous acts.”

However, I refer back to my previous post–Isaiah is not saying that God’s people should not do righteous acts. He’s saying that the nation as a whole is so sinful that even their righteous acts are filthy. A Christian, performing acts of righteousness prompted by the grace of God, is another matter altogether. Isaiah’s “our righteous acts” (i.e., in this context those of his fellow sinful Israelis) and the Church’s “our righteous acts” are different matters.

DaveBj
 
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kramerbaby:
i have a friend who quoted this and i would like to know
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The text is from Isaiah as people have said and it is actually a bit stronger than “filthy.” The phrase is “menstrual rags.”

I know it because it occurs in a prayer of Saint Ambrose, a prayer to be said by the priest probably at the Lavabo. I do not know if it forms part of the still existing Ambrosian Rite in Milan. It was also incorporated into the usage of the Celtic Churches and can be found in the ancient Lorrha-Stowe Missal which has survived from the 8th century.

Lorrha Missal (in English)
illusions.com/rowanhold/stowe.htm#ordinary

Prayer of Saint Ambrose

O God, I who presume to invoke Thy Holy Name, stand in the presence of Thy Divine Majesty: have mercy upon me, a man: a sinner smeared by the foulness of inherent impurity; forgive the unworthy priest in whose hand this oblation is seen offered: Spare O Lord one polluted by sins: in faults the foremost, in comparison to all others, and do not enter into judgment with Thy servant, for no one living is justified in Thy sight. It is true that we are weighed down in the faults and desires of our flesh: remember, O Lord, that we are flesh and there is no other source of help than Thee. Yeah, in Thy sight not even those in Heaven are much more cleansed than we earthly humans, of whom, as the Prophet said of all our righteous acts: we are in comparison as unworthy as a menstrual rag. O Jesus Christ, let us live. O Thou Who dost not will the death of a sinner: grant forgiveness unto us whom Thou hast established in flesh, so that by penitential acts we may come to enjoy eternal life in the Heavens, through our Lord Jesus Christ Who reigneth with Thee and the Holy Spirit throughout all ages of ages. Amen.

From the Lorrha (“Stowe”) Missal used by Churches of Ireland, Scotland, Britain, France, Germany, Switzerland, and northern Italy.
Translated and Rubricated by Priest Kristopher Dowling, S.S.B.
 
Fr Ambrose:
The text is from Isaiah as people have said and it is actually a bit stronger than “filthy.” The phrase is “menstrual rags.”
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I know. I know. In my Baptist Church we had this one adult Sunday School teacher (a Pentagon 9/11 attack survivor) who would always bring out that point (about the menstrual rags) if the verse ever came up. My wife thought it was in poor taste to talk like that in mixed company.

When my wife is also with me in the Catholic Church, I hope it doesn’t come out that way again too soon. But if it does, she is already used to it by now.
 
Your friend is under the mistaken impression that Catholics think we can EARN our way to heaven through good works. That is what she is attacking. However, since Catholics do not believe that, it is no wonder that her point is not reaching you. If I were you, I would read the book by Karl Keating Catholicism and Fundamentalism. It will help you to understand what points she is trying to make with you.
 
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DaveBj:
In a nutshell, the prophet is lamenting the Kingdom of Judah’s status of being a conquered nation (vv 10-11) because of the sinfulness of the people (vv 5b-7). He illustrates how sinful the people are by stating that even the “righteous” things that the people do are like, literally, “rags of filth” in the eyes of God.

The term “filthy rags/rags of filth” is actually very graphic. It refers specifically to the rags that women would wear during their time of the month.

DaveBj
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Which ties in with what is said in the Torah about menstruating women being “unclean” - that is, ritually impure, and therefore disqualified for being members of the “kingdom of priests” which God had formed Israel to be.​

Just as menstruating women were disqualified from being normal members of this people, so here: Judah as a whole is like such a woman. It has no “entitlement”, of any kind, to “see God”. IOW, it is stuck. So God must move; God, must come to Judah, because Judah cannot approach God. ##
 
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kramerbaby:
anybody? and she is a very good person, but I stil dont understand why, even when we talk about something other than religious topics, it manages to make its way into conversations. I dont mind it, it is just that I dont know what to say to it, and why she does it. Help!
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Some non-Catholics, and your friend seems to be one of them, believe incorrectly that the Catholic Church teachs we can somehow work our way to heaven by our righteous deeds. By repeating the phrase about the filthy rags, I think your friend, in her way, is trying to counter that truly erroneous teaching, as St. Paul did when he wrote in Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God–not because of works, lest any man should boast.”

The problem with the phrase about the filthy rags is that it gives the impression that righteous deeds are to be avoided and this is clearly not true. As St. Paul immediately says in Ephesians 2:10, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” Or, as St. James said, “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? [The answer to this rhetorical question is: No!] … So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.” (James 2:14-17)

You may wish to remind your friend that “the righteous deeds of the saints” are not filthy rags but “fine linen, bright and pure” and it is with this fine linen that the Bride of the Lamb will be clothed at their marriage, according to Revelation 19:7-8.
 
Obviously there’s a lot of ways to twist those verses.

I like to think of good deeds in the way that Jesus spoke of them, as things we owe, as good servants. Consider from Luke (NAB)

Vigilant and Faithful Servants.
12:35 * "Gird your loins and light your lamps
12:36 and be like servants who await their master’s return from a wedding, ready to open immediately when he comes and knocks.
12:37 Blessed are those servants whom the master finds vigilant on his arrival. Amen, I say to you, he will gird himself, have them recline at table, and proceed to wait on them.
12:38 And should he come in the second or third watch and find them prepared in this way, blessed are those servants.
 
I for one reject sola scriptura, and I will not be suckered by cheap shot bible bingo by protestants.

The bottom line is this: many non-catholics have been taught that if they say a 30-second prayer to accept Jesus into their hearts they are permanently saved.

Therefore the possibility of losing one’s salvation is so abhorrent to them, that they scour scripture for quotes to prove it doesn’t matter what you do as long as you said that 30-second prayer. After that prayer, they claim, what you do doesn’t matter. We can play that foolish game too if we want, finding proof in the epistle of James that faith *without *works is dead.

I don’t think it is improper by any means to tell your friend that you would prefer to understand scripture in the context of Church tradition, and that you trust the teaching authority of the Church because it was established by the apostle Peter, our first pope, and handed down faithfully.

Be thankful for our rich doctrine, and yes, dogma. It is tried and tested over centuries, not invented by a disgruntled and personally troubled excommunicated catholic in the 14th century.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I am very concerned at the level of hostility I see in protestants against Catholicism. It’s suggestive of an agenda quite different than an innocent interest in our salvation.
 
In the Old Testament, menstrating women were unclean. But so was anything they touched. If anyone else touched them, they would have to wash and would still be “unclean until evening.” The same thing applied after childbirth. The exact length of time depended on the child’s gender. The unclean period lasted twice as long if a girl had been born opposed to a boy.

I’m not sure that the subject shouldn’t be brought up in mixed company. Menstration is a natural process. Yes, we consider it “gross.” But why? Have you ever thought of that? I’ve sometimes wondered if it isn’t a carry over from that. Or something similar. In the “old days,” sex wasn’t even discussed.

For an example, look at the “Little House on the Prairie” books. Childbirth is hardly mentioned. And even when she wrote about her own marriage, she didn’t talk about the physical side of the relationship. Nor was it ever mentioned about any of the girls having their “monthly.” I’ve often wondered why. Was it considered that disgusting?
 
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