Is there a passage in the bible stating "works of rightousness are as filthy rags"?

[DaveBj]

## Which ties in with what is said in the Torah about menstruating women being “unclean” - that is, ritually impure, and therefore disqualified for being members of the “kingdom of priests” which God had formed Israel to be.

Just as menstruating women were disqualified from being normal members of this people, so here: Judah as a whole is like such a woman. It has no “entitlement”, of any kind, to “see God”. IOW, it is stuck. So God must move; God, must come to Judah, because Judah cannot approach God. ##

Never thought of it that way. Good insight

DaveBj

 

[kramerbaby]

Ok. so in the passage, it is stating that because we are so sinful, our rightious deeds without faith are dirty? or is it even with faith? I am kind of confused there. but because Jesus died on the cross, that is now void for us? ugh. i am tooo tired to think. ok. so basically, she has the thought that we (catholics) try to work our way to heaven. and the counter could be

"James 2:24-26 See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route? For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

(thanks, legeorge) and also, if any of you have not checked it out, I also have a thread under Apologetics titled QuranVS Bible where i could still use some info on the Quran. Thanks for your help!

 

[Anna_Elizabeth]

Origen:

Sorry to be so blunt, but I am very concerned at the level of hostility I see in protestants against Catholicism. It’s suggestive of an agenda quite different than an innocent interest in our salvation.

Dear Origen, :yup: I have lived with this all my very long life. I believe that some of the surprise at recent examples of virulent anti-Catholicism derives from a naive belief on the part of many Catholics that finally we are accepted as other Americans. That we are not has been brought home very clearly to us in the past few years.

The stock response to this is to seriously and charitably (ugh) listen to the speaker (read: aggressor) and clarify the situation. I can’t do this being very lacking in charity. Rather, I think it’s really cool that kramerbaby doesn’t know what these attacks mean! Uncharitably, I would go right on letting it blow over me, forcing the mean person to repeat and repeat and repeat! (Is that even meaner?)

Meanwhile, If I didn’t drop the so-called friend, I would compose a set of radical detours to use at such times to put her on the defensive. I would begin with, “Oh, I’m so glad you mentioned that dirty rag…” leading to something that is on a totally different subject or aspect of the subject. She will be forced over and over again to return to her subject!!

I don’t claim this method to be Christ-like, charitable, evangelical, etc., etc., but it derives from years and years of being accosted with what you describe as something other than “an innocent interest in our salvation.” Besides, sometimes when you know you are being dumped on, and when you come up with a great detour, it is actually fun!

Want to know what I think the cause is? Envy!
Think about it.

Love and Fortitude,

Anna PS Practice this now. When the Da Vinci Code movie comes out you will need it! A.

 

[Toni]

Wow I learned something new today but I am not sure I will send that one to long term memory due to the fact that I am sure it will come back to me from one of my protestant friends at one time or another.

I am trying to kick into long term memory the one at todays Mass about alms giving to remove sins. Now that one I am sure I can use.

Oh if I only had a memory… I could convert I could …

I guess its getting late… so I will end my post with that.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello kramerbaby,

Here are some of the scriptures you might ask your Baptist friend to read.

NAB SIRACH 35:1

**To keep the law is a great oblation, and he who observes the commandments sacrifices a peace offering. In works of charity one offers fine flour, and when he gives alms he presents his sacrifice of praise. To refrain from evil pleases the LORD, and to avoid injustice is an atonement. Appear not before the LORD empty handed, for all that you offer is in fulfillment of the precepts. The just man’s offering enriches the altar and rises as a sweet odor before the Most High. The just man’s sacrifice is most pleasing, nor will it ever be forgotten. In generous spirit pay homage to the LORD, be not sparing of freewill gifts. With each contribution show a cheerful countenance, and pay your tithes in a spirit of joy. Give to the Most High as he has given to you generously, according to your means. For the LORD is one who always repays, and he will give back to you sevenfold.**NAB SIRACH 17:17

A man’s goodness God cherishes like a signet ring, a man’s virtue, like the apple of his eye.NAB 1 PETER 1:6

There is cause for rejoicing here. You may for a time have to suffer the distress of many trials; but this is so that your faith, which is more precious than the passing splendor of fire-tried gold, may by its genuineness lead to praise, glory, and honor when Jesus Christ appears.WISDOM 6

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com

 

[RBushlow]

kramerbaby:

I have a friend who is Baptist and quotes this continually, no matter what religious subject we talk about. Why would she do that?

She’s erroneously try to tell you that Faith Alone can save you. Give her the following quotes from James 2:
James 2:17 . . .faith, without works, is dead.
James 2:24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.

May the love of our Jesus Christ, the pease of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you.

 

[jennstall]

Sorry to be completely random, but you know what? I really really want a t-shirt that says “faith without works is dead.” It would a fun conversation starter

 

[PB777]

I have often thought of this and Scripture comes to mind. Scripture is a work of man, albeit, inspired by the Holy Spirit. Would a Protestant say that Scripture is as filthy rags? Try that!

 

[francisca]

Todd Easton:

Some non-Catholics, and your friend seems to be one of them, believe incorrectly that the Catholic Church teachs we can somehow work our way to heaven by our righteous deeds. By repeating the phrase about the filthy rags, I think your friend, in her way, is trying to counter that truly erroneous teaching, as St. Paul did when he wrote in Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God–not because of works, lest any man should boast.”

The problem with the phrase about the filthy rags is that it gives the impression that righteous deeds are to be avoided and this is clearly not true. As St. Paul immediately says in Ephesians 2:10, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” Or, as St. James said, “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? [The answer to this rhetorical question is: No!] … So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.” (James 2:14-17)

You may wish to remind your friend that “the righteous deeds of the saints” are not filthy rags but “fine linen, bright and pure” and it is with this fine linen that the Bride of the Lamb will be clothed at their marriage, according to Revelation 19:7-8.

I totally agree. See if we read Paul’s letter to the Ephesians 2:8-10, the whole context of “good works” is because God’s gift bestowed in us by God first, then we walk on the path He provides for us. Not that Paul’s contradict James’ about good works.

Even I see protestant brothers & sisters do good works in missions too, and some of them shared blood in those missions, so I read. These can be done because of-- first of all-- God’s works in them, and this is possible only if one put his TRUST & HOPE in God, which means have FAITH in Him. This can’t be different with those catholic saints such as Mother Theresa. If we read how she quote one of Isiah’s verse to be her inspiration of all of her good works, then we realize it is actually God’s good works.

So as you can see the whole thing about protestant-catholic doctrines about justification are not totally different. It seems like almost totally “semantic” to me. It should not cause any further division in the Church. Really.

The only difference is that of in practice : we must admit that a lot of catholics prays “novena” as if they think God want them to “strive” before He would release their prayers. This bothers me so much. Because God that I know is not that “stingy” nor He is “far away”. I also see that some “real presence” guys are mostly “grouchy” about liturgy, as if God will “catch” them the moment they make mistakes. This is far from “shalom” kind of peace that Jesus supposedly bestows on us all the time.

Then I realize that this is because they do not know God as the bible discribe Him to be : that He is rich in mercy and that He wants to POUR blessings on us all the time, He is limitlessly abundant in all good things. And it is true. I am His witness on this. We only have to believe in His total goodness and faithfulness and mercifulness. And we have to hold on to this faith : That God is not angry anymore, that Jesus has died for our sins.

God bless.

 

[kramerbaby]

Thanks. I will certainly keep these toughts in mind! I thank you for all your help. God bless you all!

 

[ChristianWAB]

kramerbaby:

I have a friend who is Baptist and quotes this continually, no matter what religious subject we talk about. Why would she do that?

Probably just wants to emphasize that you can’t earn your way into Heaven. It’s not saying that we should never do good works. In fact, the opposite is true. Good works should be a part of your life when you’ve asked Jesus into your heart, but one should never use good works to win their way into heaven.

 

[catholic2]

I feel so serious…

Isaiah 64:5 points to the fact that the “good deeds” were disimulative ones. Their deeds were faked and therefore were polluted rags. v4 “Would that you might meet us doing right, that we were mindful of you in our ways!” Isaiah declares their guilt.

Paul touches on this same topic where in Philippians 3:2-6 he goes against the legalistic approach, himself being righteous in the law and that based on the law he himself was blameless even as he was persecuting the Church.

But in v 7-9, Paul brings the fullness of righteousness into focus as he says:
*“whatever gains I had, these I have come to consider a loss because of Christ. (8) More than that, I even consider everything as a loss because of the supreme good of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have accepted the loss of all things and I consider them so much rubbish, that I may gain Christ (9) and be found in him, not having any righteousness of my own based on the law but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God, depending on faith”
*
Righteous work then comes through faith in Christ Jesus, otherwise it is nothing but filthy rags.

 

[geezerbob]

Read Is. 58. It’s short, only two pages, then re-read this one. It could well be that the works the prophet is describing are the ritual works required by the law that are being carried out with unloving hearts. In chapter 58, God tells us what types of works He wants us to do and, in slightly different words, tells us of the futility of ritualistic good works if our hearts aren’t right.

 

[Roamin-Catholic]

geezerbob:

Read Is. 58. It’s short, only two pages, then re-read this one. It could well be that the works the prophet is describing are the ritual works required by the law that are being carried out with unloving hearts. In chapter 58, God tells us what types of works He wants us to do and, in slightly different words, tells us of the futility of ritualistic good works if our hearts aren’t right.

I think this is exactly it. Our works must be accompanied by faith and love or else they are as filthy rags. This Scripture is used out of context by the “once-saved-always-saved” crowd to try to argue that our works are meaningless. This is a big lie from the little devil. Faith w/o works is dead, which means works are absolutely necessary. Here is a Scripture verse that gives us quite a different picture of works:

“Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.”
It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean;** for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints**.

 

[BayCityRickL]

Last evening, Fr. Groeschel had a ‘live’ program about the judgment after death.

He quoted the verses in scripture (in Romans 2: 5- 6)
By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, who will repay everyone according to his works.

Some of you may know the evangelical radio Bible teacher Harold Camping. I think Harold has it right when he says that every fornicator will wish he had committed fornication even one less time, and every adulterer will wish he had committed adultery even one less time, and a pornographer will wish that he had used pornography one less time.

St. Paul also tells us that God will not be mocked, so we should stop sinning.

For those who mock fundamentalists, please note that fundamentalists are not wrong about everything. Don’t kid yourself.

(I don’t accept sola scriptura, but I also reject no scriptura).

 

[DerekHV]

I had never really heard of this or studied it before, until watching some fundamentalist videos on youtube. They just love that saying.