Is there a place for vibrant, expressive worship/adoration?

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As a Pentecostal coming into the Church, I don’t know how to reconcile the vibrant worship with the solemnity of the Mass; it seems as though there’s a place for the vibrant, celebratory worship and the Sacrifice of the Mass. If the Mass is the ultimate expression of Christian worship, does that mean that the vibrant expressive adoration is out of the equation/shunned?
 
Here are some of the Diocese websites with an official Charismatic Renewal Offices, and if you google “Catholic Charismatic Renewal” and your city/state you are likely to find other groups (I know the group on my state is not listed at the link below)

nsc-chariscenter.org/RenewalLinks.asp

Cursillo is another group that is closely linked to the Renewal cursillo.org/
 
Usual these are part of the evangelical type churches.
 
What I mean to say is: Does expressive worship have a place within the Catholic Church?
 
Yes there is a place for expressive worship. Most churches just have regular masses. But the Catholic Charismatic Renewal is an ecclesial movement of the church. Within the movement there are Charismatic masses where you will find many gifts/charisms being uses.

Check out the websites that Castello gave you, they are great! This link will help you find a group near you. nsc-chariscenter.org/Search/

I recently went to an Advent Healing mass where after the mass the priest gave the annointing of the sick to those who needed it and prayed in tongues over you. There are many spirit filled priests who exhibit many charism/spiritual gifts.
 
Zeldarocks said:
As a Pentecostal coming into the Church, I don’t know how to reconcile the vibrant worship with the solemnity of the Mass; it seems as though there’s a place for the vibrant, celebratory worship and the Sacrifice of the Mass. If the Mass is the ultimate expression of Christian worship, does that mean that the vibrant expressive adoration is out of the equation/shunned?
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The Sacrifice of the Mass is really a re-enactment of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. In the Mass the sufferings and death of our Savior, which happened 2000 years ago, are presented to us in our own time, so that we, in a way, also become witnesses to His crucifixion. I am not here saying that Christ is repeating his sacrifice, or that He is dying again at each Mass. I am only saying that we are witnessing in the Mass the same bloody sacrifice He suffered in Calvary, but which is here re-enacted in a non-bloody manner. How that same sacrifice is presented before us, is a miracle, just as the consecration itself is a miracle.

The Bible says that there is a time for everything, a time for rejoicing, and a time for weeping. Certainly, when one is dying on the cross, it is time to be solemn, not a time to be jumping about and dancing. I think that an upbeat song, or what you call “vibrant worship” has a place within the Catholic Church, but not within the Mass itself. We can, and we often do, have some joyful songs and music at the entrance (Beginning of the Mass) and at the end of the Mass. We can also have them in other celebrations outside of the Mass, but I just don’t think it is appropriate to have this kind of worship within the Mass.

That is just my opinion. You may disagree.
 
There is indeed a place for such type of exhuberant/loud/expressive prayer. But the Church has always governed its official liturgies and is explicit in excluding clearly secular musical styles and instruments from Mass.

It would then seem that Pentecostal/Charismatic style prayer has no place in Mass, but may be used outside of Liturgy, such as at prayer meetings and private gatherings (i.e. non-liturgical). But for Liturgies, such as the Mass and Divine Office, it is always preferred to follow the mind of the Church.
 
What about the gift of tongues and praying in the Holy Spirit? I stopped praying in tongues because I was under the impression that a Holy Spirit “prayer language” in and of itself was either only for the clergy or not really viable…
 
Zeldarocks said:
As a Pentecostal coming into the Church, I don’t know how to reconcile the vibrant worship with the solemnity of the Mass; it seems as though there’s a place for the vibrant, celebratory worship and the Sacrifice of the Mass. If the Mass is the ultimate expression of Christian worship, does that mean that the vibrant expressive adoration is out of the equation/shunned?
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I Kings 19:11-12

11 And he said, “Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD.” And behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and broke in pieces the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake; 12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice.

The Mass gives you a chance to experience that “still, small voice” – particularly if you are able to familiarize yourself with the Low Mass in the Extraordinary Form.

I Cor 14:40

but all things should be done decently and in order.

When you have chaos going on, rather than all things being done decently and in order, it is, in my opinion, difficult to be in a position to actually listen to God. The Mass, when properly celebrated, should give you a glimpse into the Transcendent nature of God. It opens up a window into heaven. Again, in my opinion, chaos tends to block that.

There is a heresy that is prevalent in these days (it has been growing since the late 19th century and is becoming more and more ingrained in our society as time goes on). The name of the heresy is “modernism.” The shortest possible explanation of that heresy is that peoples’ philosophy and beliefs are founded upon a concept of “vital immanence.” That is, that ultimate truths are based upon how a person perceives that truth…that truth is squishy and flexible. Modernism rejects the notion of Transcendent Truth. Examples of modernist thought:

*- I **feel **that the use of hormonal contraceptives is OK. And since my conscience says it’s OK, then it must be OK…
  • A woman saying that she **feels **God is calling her to the priesthood.
  • All of those old Church doctrines no longer apply. Vatican II changed all of them.*
While I am not trying to reject charismatic worship, I would ask you to recall the high emotional tenor of charismatic worship from your Pentecostal days. This high level of emotionalism tends to lead some people down the primrose path of letting their feelings guide them and mistaking emotionalism for spiritual enlightenment. Not hardly all, but I have met more than a few who have been led astray by following these emotions rather than clinging to the divine revelation provided by Christ to His Apostles and maintained by the Church. The problem is that when one tries to correct an error, many of these people will utterly reject the correction, because they feel they’ve had a spiritual experience rather than an emotional one. And that dependence upon emotional experience can lead one down the path of the modernist heresy very quickly, particularly if the prayer group leader (lay person or clergy) has been infected by it.

Again, let me emphasize that this doesn’t apply to ALL charismatics I’ve met. It doesn’t even apply to most of them. But it does apply to more than a handful I’ve run into.

With the above cautions, I certainly wouldn’t tell you to reject glossolalia. If it is authentic (and not your subconscious mind creating something), that is a tremendous gift that God has graced you with for use in your personal prayer life.

I would encourage you to develop a deep understanding of the transcendent nature of the Divine Liturgy – to the point of being able to grasp in the depths of your soul the paschal mystery that is being presented on the altar…and to be where you can see the joining of heaven and earth within the sanctuary (for me, the EF Mass or the Byzantine liturgy helps my appreciation far more than most, but not all OF Masses). While your glossolalia can help make you more receptive to understanding those truths, it is no substitute.

I would encourage you also to steer clear of the charismatic groups for the time being. You are just in the process of forming your conscience according to the teachings of the Church. As a catechumen or candidate (if you were in a “Oneness” Pentecostal group like UPC, you will likely have to be baptized; if you were in a “Trinitarian” Penteconstal group like AG, you probably won’t have to be), you need to focus on inculcating the faith. Even after being received into the Church, as a neophyte, you need to still exercise caution and guard your heart. Once you are experienced and have your conscience formed, you will have what you need in order to be able to discern whether a given charismatic group is orthodox or if they are going (have gone) off the rails. But I would seriously suggest steering clear for now.
 
Zeldarocks said:
What about the gift of tongues and praying in the Holy Spirit? I stopped praying in tongues because I was under the impression that a Holy Spirit “prayer language” in and of itself was either only for the clergy or not really viable…
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There is room for praying in tongues in the Catholic Church. However, there are two notes I would like to make:
  1. A speech in tongues is either decipherable or undecipherable. If it is decipherable, or if it can be understood by others, then it should be encouraged, because if this is truly from God, then its effect is to edify the Church. We have in this case the example of the apostles during pentecost. When the apostles received the Holy Spirit, they spoke in different languages (hebrew, arabic, greek, latin, etc.), but they were human languages understandable by listeners who spoke the same language (the Jews, the Arabs, the Greeks, the Romans, etc.). Because of this, people marveled at the miracle and were edified.
    If the speech is undecipherable, then it is either authentic (a God-given talent) or not authentic (fake). If it is fake, then it is just a form of babbling and must be stopped, for it just makes a mockery of our religion. If it is authentic, then the tongues speaking person must not be prevented from praying in this fashion, but because the speech is undecipherable, St. Paul counsels that the tongues speaker should pray not publicly or in Church, but in private (1 Corinthians 14:28). St. Paul has a point. For if the prayer or speech is undecipherable (although authentic), then it will fail to edify the Church and likely produce only chaos (1 Corinthians 14:6-12). In that case, the tongues speaker should simply follow the injunction of our Lord: “But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly” (Matthew 6:6).
  2. Not every person who speaks in tongues has the biblical “gift of tongues.” The gift of tongues, like any gift of the Holy Spirit, is not something you can develop on your own. It is a gift, and therefore has a divine origin. No amount of practice on your part will make you acquire it, if God does not give it to you. In the same manner, the gift of healing or the gift of miracles is not something you can develop. If God does not give this gift to you, then you will not acquire it. Therefore, it is futile to try to develop or practice the gift of tongues if you don’t have the gift. You certainly may pray for it, and you are encouraged to do so. But until you receive the gift, then you don’t have it.
 
rom422 said:
The Sacrifice of the Mass is really a re-enactment of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. In the Mass the sufferings and death of our Savior, which happened 2000 years ago, are presented to us in our own time, so that we, in a way, also become witnesses to His crucifixion. I am not here saying that Christ is repeating his sacrifice, or that He is dying again at each Mass. I am only saying that we are witnessing in the Mass the same bloody sacrifice He suffered in Calvary, but which is here re-enacted in a non-bloody manner. How that same sacrifice is presented before us, is a miracle, just as the consecration itself is a miracle.

The Bible says that there is a time for everything, a time for rejoicing, and a time for weeping. Certainly, when one is dying on the cross, it is time to be solemn, not a time to be jumping about and dancing. I think that an upbeat song, or what you call “vibrant worship” has a place within the Catholic Church, but not within the Mass itself. We can, and we often do, have some joyful songs and music at the entrance (Beginning of the Mass) and at the end of the Mass. We can also have them in other celebrations outside of the Mass, but I just don’t think it is appropriate to have this kind of worship within the Mass.

That is just my opinion. You may disagree.
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How about rejoicing that he is risen. Just another way to look at it. It is good to remember how he suffered so for us, but if he hadn’t been risen it would of been in vain.🙂
 
Zeldarocks said:
What I mean to say is: Does expressive worship have a place within the Catholic Church?
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YES, and this is the perfect time of the year to ask - Simbang Gabi is happening at a parish near you. This is a joyful celebration of the Virgin Mary within a Mass, with singing, praising in tongues, and just generally rockin’ out. These Masses are quite often followed by Karaoke parties with roast pig and all manner of wonderful food, dancing, and socializing. 🙂
 
Zeldarocks said:
What I mean to say is: Does expressive worship have a place within the Catholic Church?
Click to expand...
I think you are looking for a concert style worship experience. You can go to those outside of Mass times, if that is a style of music that you enjoy. That is not true worship however.
 
Zeldarocks said:
As a Pentecostal coming into the Church, I don’t know how to reconcile the vibrant worship with the solemnity of the Mass; it seems as though there’s a place for the vibrant, celebratory worship and the Sacrifice of the Mass. If the Mass is the ultimate expression of Christian worship, does that mean that the vibrant expressive adoration is out of the equation/shunned?
Click to expand...
Maybe you’re looking for this: youtube.com/watch?v=aJ4tEFPuhYI
 
Luvtosew said:
How about rejoicing that he is risen. Just another way to look at it. It is good to remember how he suffered so for us, but if he hadn’t been risen it would of been in vain.🙂
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That is a very good thought. However, if Christ did not fight the battle, there cannot be a victory. If He did not suffer, there cannot be redemption nor resurrection. In the Mass we celebrate principally His passion and death, because it is the cause of our redemption.

Of course, we also should be happy that our redemption had been accomplished, that Christ had risen from the dead, and that one day we, too, will rise from the dead. But during the Mass, especially from the offertory to the communion, noisy forms of worship would be out of place because of the celebration of Christ’s sacrifice. Incidentally, there can be joy with solemn music. Many of our communion songs actually fall under that category. I think the Vatican had given some guidelines on what types of music would be appropriate at Mass, considering that we celebrate the Mass even for joyful feast days of the Church - such as Christmas and Easter.
 
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