Is there a problem of anti-Semitism within Traditional Catholicism?

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I found people within traditionalist groups who are fully aligned with Rome are usually not anti-Semitics. Whereas I find the further you get from the office of Kephas, the more likely people are to engage in anti-Semiticism.
 
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I mean that most Catholic theologians and Popes throughout history would have been considered anti-Semitic by today’s standards.
 
Briefly, yes, there is a problem within certain limited circles of radical traditionalists regarding anti-semitism. Most of the time I have found the anti-semitism to be veiled and passive-aggressive as in the case of “replacement theology”. Other times it is out front and blunt among the egoists.

Until Vatican II, anti-semitism had been a serious problem for the Church as a whole. It still is a problem to some degree, though less so than it was in the past, as ecumenical relations are better and the Church has toned down its rhetoric. A good historical background is the book, “Anguish of the Jews”, written by a Fr. Edward Flannery. Flannery goes into great detail explaining how the Jews were abused by the Church over many centuries. It is an age-old problem, rooted in misinterpretation, superstitions, and misunderstanding between the faiths.

We have much we can learn from our Jewish brethren. And while we may have theological differences, there is much in common and much that can be shared to build bridges. Any Christian that takes the time to study the faith of Judaism with any degree of seriousness will walk away richer in understanding of Christ and with a great deal of respect for Judaism’s vast storehouse of tradition, commentaries, prayer life, and more.
 
One of the best, most learned and most helpful priests I ever knew was a former rabbi who converted.
I’m glad I was not born into an atmosphere of anti- Semitism. I can’t help but think that was a major ongoing sin for which the punishment was WWII. It honestly just seems ridiculous to me.
 
Well, we really can’t just cut and paste the past into the current world. I’m sure that there was a lot of anti-Semitism, and Vatican 2 helped to correct those errors and restore our understanding of the Jewish roots of the Church.
 
egretps said:
I’ve occasionally heard this in the Evangelicals too. Just this past monday on one of the local ‘christian’ channels. They weren’t saying "Jews run everything’ thank goodness, but he inferred that Jews today lost out on the covenant that the church today is God’s ‘chosen people’.
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If they were inferring that the Church is the new Israel of God, this would be true and not baseless at all. Of course it will not go well with our Jewish friends, but the opportunity to accept the messiah was given, it just happened that our Church accepted Him, and they didn’t.

As far as the Talmud, the Jews have a lot of explaining to do, whether we want to ignore there are blasphemous things written in it or not. Some of you who think we may be being anti-semetic, perhaps you can look into the writings yourselves and prove us wrong.
 
What are your specific academic and scholarly credentials to make this assertion?

I am assuming you are able to demonstrate fluency in Aramaic and Hebrew translation, Jewish history, and rabbinic literature.

And that you have studied all 72 volumes of the Babylonian Talmud, and another 35-40 of the Jersusalem Talmud, under the lifelong tutelage of an esteemed rabbi.
 
StGerardMajella said:
What are your specific academic and scholarly credentials to make this assertion?

I am assuming you are able to demonstrate fluency in Aramaic and Hebrew translation, Jewish history, and rabbinic literature.

And that you have studied all 72 volumes of the Babylonian Talmud, and another 35-40 of the Jersusalem Talmud, under the lifelong tutelage of an esteemed rabbi.
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Do you really think I have to be a scholar? Do I have to be fluent in Greek, Hebrew and Latin to be able to understand anything in the Christian Bible?

Would you like to defend what was written about Jesus and Mary in the Talmud so that everyone on this forum can be really informed about what the Talmudic Jews believe?
 
Catholicos said:
As far as the Talmud, the Jews have a lot of explaining to do, whether we want to ignore there are blasphemous things written in it or not. Some of you who think we may be being anti-semetic, perhaps you can look into the writings yourselves and prove us wrong.
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This should answer anyone’s question about anti-Semitism in Catholicism.
 
Catholicos said:
Do you really think I have to be a scholar? Do I have to be fluent in Greek, Hebrew and Latin to be able to understand anything in the Christian Bible?
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We were referencing the Talmud, not the Bible. There are actually two Talmuds, but you did not specify which one. The Babylonian Talmud when translated into English is comprised of some 70 odd volumes. The Jerusalem Talmud is roughly 35-40 volumes in translation, and so complex that even the most erudite rabbis and students of Judaism struggle with its meaning.

And yes, you have to be able to read and understand the nuances of Aramaic to understand the text if you wish to be credible with your assertions. Citing mistranslated passages from Wikipedia, Storm Front, or other antisemitic authors isn’t exactly credible scholarship.

The Talmud is a commentary on the nuances of Torah law, where various Jewish Sages and rabbis debate topics offering varying opinions and arguments. It is not difficult to pull one rabbinic point of view and exaggerate that argument, and then twist that argument into an unrelated modern context for nefarious purposes.
Would you like to defend what was written about Jesus and Mary in the Talmud so that everyone on this forum can be really informed about what the Talmudic Jews believe?
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See above. I’d recommend that you consider taking an Introduction to Judaism class at your local community college and educate yourself before making false assertions. It’s exactly this kind of drivel that is an embarrassment to the Church.
 
This is “replacement theology” which is an antisemitic argument rejected by the Church post-Vatican II.
 
StGerardMajella said:
This is “replacement theology” which is an antisemitic argument rejected by the Church post-Vatican II.
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I’ll make it easy for you. We’ll abide by the Talmud instead of post-Vatican II such that you won’t be bounded to tell me the truth about the Talmud, or what is written about the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Blessed Virgin Mary. At least the Koran, is a little more reverent to both, even if like Judaism, they don’t believe Jesus is Lord
 
I believe I’m very objective. There are so not so nice things said about the Jews in the New Testament. I’m not going to make excuses, claim there are mistranslations or semantics that can be misunderstood. I’ll be anti-semantic 🙂 My best friends growing up was Jewish and from Israel, Now even though he wasn’t a scholar, we became very close, like a brother I could ask him anything i wanted the good, the bad the ugly. So he first told me about the Talmud, and I’ve listened to many rabbi’s speak about Yeshua.

These rabbis gave their reasons as to how it wasn’t the Jesus of the New Testament. Fine, so then we can believe nothing bad was said about Jesus , because it wasn’t the Jesus we worship. Then immediately after saying this, they said, not to confuse the Jews that had first taught the Talmud, with the Jews in our New Testament, they aren’t the same. Ok fine.

What do I think to myself at that point? You’re talking out of two sides of your mouth. Why would you care about what Jesus says in the New Testament where he insults the Jews, if that Jesus and those Jews aren’t the Jews we’re associating with the Talmud?

This is the information age. Yes there’s fake news, yes there’s false information. Nevertheless, with objectivity and reason, it doesn’t take a scholar to discern the truth. I’m very objective , believe me. I’ll point out the writings of St. John Chrysostom against the Jews. I’m not going to hide and make excuses. It’s all there. It’s not pretty and favorable to the Jews, .and this is from a Saint. That being said, I would expect the same honesty from a Talmudic Jew. I’l respect you more if you just tell the truth,.

I agree with (name removed by moderator) in this way. Ecumenism has to be measured. For it to be fruitful, it must be honest and truthful.
 
I think your point about the Talmud being a collection of sages’ opinions, including some minority opinions and one-offs, is important for all Catholics to understand. I don’t honestly know if the statements about Jesus were “agreed upon,” or just stray opinions by one or two rabbis. However, I think that’s really beside the point.

Contemporary (i.e., 20th and 21st century) Jews have been totally willing to talk about the “dark verses” in the Talmud, and many Christians are also willing to admit that the “cut and paste” approach to citing the New Testament verses on “the Jews” (e.g., John 8:44, Matthew 27:25) out of context has provided much kindling for the cultural anti-Semitism that followed the separation of Christians from Jews after several centuries.

The problem that I see within Catholicism is that anti-Semites, who tend to run pretty consistently in traditionalist circles in my experience, insist on a literalistic and hypersimilistic reading of both the Talmud and the New Testament. It’s an ideological commitment to their particular version of how to read the Bible (i.e., as if Divino Afflante Spiritu had never been written).
 
I could accept if you said it was erroneous but to label it as antisemitic is a bit much there is no temple, no priesthood, and no salvation through Judaism. It’s essentially a dead religion.
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This is a fundamental misunderstanding of Judaism as it is practiced today. Those Jews that follow a strict adherence to the Torah do not consider it a “dead religion”. If anything, their close adherence to the Torah brings Jewish believers very close to the Creator in sometimes the most supernatural and unique ways.

Interestingly, many of the Jewish Sages and famous rabbis adhered to a daily prayer life that more closely mirrors life in our monastic orders. Devout Jews pray 3 times per day, keep the Sabbath, follow strict dietary regulations, and continue to maintain the proscribed feast days as outlined in the Torah. It’s an intensity of religiosity to which most Christians are unfamiliar.

You don’t need a Temple to keep the Sabbath and to adhere to a rigorous prayer life. Or to treat your fellow brethren with kindness. Or to donate funds to the poor, or to provide charity to others. Or to follow the spiritual and philosophical elements in the Torah. In place of the Temple ritual, the Jewish siddur - the daily prayer book - recites the order of sacrifices and priestly functions as they were performed daily. These prayers are prayed daily in Hebrew by devout Jews worldwide.
I believe the Hebrew people are still God’s chosen race but when they rejected Christ and the Church they cut themselves off from God.
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It’s not my duty as a Christian to cast aspersions about a whole population of people, let alone to make assumptions about who and who is not “cut off” from the Creator. Jews have a very special, close relationship with the Creator, even if we don’t understand that relationship and how it works. As in any religion, there are varying degrees of adherence.
 
As there are in any religion. You can find racist elements outside of religion as well. You won’t have to look far.
The Jews aren’t exempt from evangelization efforts they have no salvation without Christ.
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Before doing so, I would encourage you to pick up Fr. Edward Flannery’s book, “The Anguish of the Jews”. It will give you a historical perspective as to why most Jews are reticent about “evangelization efforts” by well-meaning Christians, and for good reason. There is a long and rather sordid history between the two faiths, and it’s not all that pleasant.
 
No there isn’t anti-semitism in traditional Roman Rite Catholic Church’s any more than there is anti-Republican sentiment in the Novus Ordo.
 
I attend an FSSP parish, and I know of perhaps 5 individuals who have anti-Semitic beliefs (and speak about those beliefs to others), out of over 800 parishioners. The pastor has diligently ensured that those individuals are removed from positions like catechism teaching or group organizing once they have been discovered.

The problem is not pervasive at my parish, but it exists. We always have to be on the watch for those people gaining the ear of newly converted Catholics who come to parish.
 
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