Is there a problem of anti-Semitism within Traditional Catholicism?

[StGerardMajella]

That’s great except for Jesus says to go out and baptize in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit and the preach to All Nations.

In Judaism, “the nations” refer to the Gentiles outside of Israel.

It seems you’re really diminishing the need and sacrifice of Christ on top of insulting those in the Church. You also seem to be insinuating that Judaism is somehow superior than Christianity particularly Catholicism

Let’s not cast false aspersions. I only suggested that respect and kindness towards each other will go a lot further than condemnation and ignorance.

There are lay people, priest, religious and monastics that have extremely vigorous pray life that are even more prayerful than those in Judaism.

Not sure why you are arguing when I already voiced agreement that there are prayerful individuals in both faiths.

The Jews of today are not the same Jews of Jesus time much was lost after the destruction of the second temple.

This is a common antisemitic slur and canard propagated by those that seek to slight our Jewish brethren in passive-aggressive fashion. It is hardly a form of Christian charity, let alone Catholic, and certainly won’t win converts.

It is exactly these kinds of statements that foster resentment between well-meaning people of goodwill. To suggest that the Jewish people today are somehow “inferior” to their ancestors is preposterous.

If anything, Jews today have to be stronger than ever in their faith after the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed.

Though certainly more challenging, you don’t need a Temple to continue to practice Jewish spirituality. You can still keep the Sabbath, follow the Ten Commandments, fast, pray daily, participate in the Jewish festivals, give to charity, and help the poor. You can still keep kosher. You can still follow the spiritual, ethical, and philosophical tenets of the Torah. The loss of the Temple was a tragedy, but the Jewish people have very much retained their identity through much travail. A little respect and humility on our part as Christians would be helpful if we want to build bridges.

 

[Catholicos]

The Communists heavily persecuted the religious, Jews and Christians alike. Just because your surname indicates your ethnic background doesn’t correlate that you are a believer. I have only been referring to devout, holy Jews, not to atheists.

Oh really? Why did Joseph Stalin declare that those guilty of antisemitism could be put to death?? Where were Christians afforded this protection? Please cite me how many Jews were murdered by the Bolsheviks,

Oh and while we’re on the subject of unholy Jews. Why did these unholy Jews( turned atheists) find refuge in Israel when they fled from prosecution for their crimes after the war? The Israeli government is just sympathetic to atheists? And are those leaders at the top of the Israeli government the holy Jews or the atheist brand? You’ll have to let us know because I certainly don’t see much holiness in the way theyve dealt with Palestinian civilians who have no direct ties to terror., many of which I will remind you are not Muslim, but Christian. Why don’t you ask them to apologize for their actions . I cited you a decree from Pope Gregory. to treat the Jews fairly Show me something remotely similar from the Israeli government. This is not about anti-semitism. This is about double standards and hypocrisy more than anything.

 

[niceatheist]

Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of observant Jews under Stalin’s reign wouldn’t be declaring Stalin some great lover of the jews.

These kinds of posts rather prove the point that there are certainly anti Semitic sentiments in some Catholic circles.

 

[Catholicos]

Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of observant Jews under Stalin’s reign wouldn’t be declaring Stalin some great lover of the jews.

These kinds of posts rather prove the point that there are certainly anti Semitic sentiments in some Catholic circles.

Then answer the question, why execute someone antisemitic? That’s like reasoning Hitlers crimes against the Jews weren’t any worse towards the Jews because even though he killed 6 million Jews, he also killed 5 million non-Jews, Slavs, homosexuals, gypsies etc.

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of observant Jews under Stalin’s reign wouldn’t be declaring Stalin some great lover of the jews.

These kinds of posts rather prove the point that there are certainly anti Semitic sentiments in some Catholic circles.

Then answer the question, why execute someone antisemitic? That’s like reasoning Hitlers crimes against the Jews weren’t any worse towards the Jews because even though he killed 6 million Jews, he also killed 5 million non-Jews, Slavs, homosexuals, gypsies etc.

Stalin executed lots of people, and the reason almost always was because Stalin felt threatened. Briefly, after the Second World War, the Soviet regime took a somewhat positive view of Zionism, I suppose assuming that it would be inherently socialist (perhaps informed by the number of early ethnic Jewish Bolsheviks), but observant Jews soon found themselves being suppressed when officials became concerned that they might shift their loyalties to Russia.

For goodness sake, during the “Great Patriotic War”, Stalin even unfroze the Russian Orthodox Church a bit, particularly when the Soviets scaled back their whole “workers unite!” rhetoric in favor of “Mother Russia” rhetoric. Stalin was, whatever else he was, a pragmatic tyrant, the only requirement being absolute loyalty to the Soviet state, and that’s where observant Jews ran afoul of him on occasion, particularly after the foundation of the state of Israel.

 

[FiveLinden]

I think most movements and organisations have a problem with anti-semitic attitudes. It has been a part of Western Christianity since some of the books of the new testament were written. The appalling history of ‘Christian’ nations and the lack of action by the Church is easiest to accomodate if you adopt some anti-semitic attitudes yourself, given that the Church is said to be ‘the same yesterday, today, and forever’. People such as Bp Williamson, whose attitudes were well known when he was in good standing with the SSPX, are the tip if an anti Jewish iceberg. Ido not recall anyone in the SSPX supporting or sharing any of the recent papal statements condemning anti-semitism.

 

[Catholicos]

Stalin executed lots of people, and the reason almost always was because Stalin felt threatened. Briefly, after the Second World War, the Soviet regime took a somewhat positive view of Zionism, I suppose assuming that it would be inherently socialist (perhaps informed by the number of early ethnic Jewish Bolsheviks), but observant Jews soon found themselves being suppressed when officials became concerned that they might shift their loyalties to Russia.

Again the question was not answered. True or false, Could you in Communist Soviet Russia be executed for being anti-Christian? True or false Could you in Communist Soviet Russia be executed for being anti-Semetic? If both are true, then you have a valid argument.

Judaism is unique that it can be viewed as a race or a religion. Christianity and Islam, not so. That being the case, one can argue that because religious Jews are not atheist, then they’re not at all culpable for what other Jews do, because those Jews are not believers, but then antiSemitism doesn’t distinguish between the holy or unholy Jew does it?

A nation like Israel is just like the Puritains who fled to find a new nation because of religious persecution. How glorious it is to be forever free from your persecutors, but are you sure the persecuted do not become the persecutors?

I’m more than satisfied with what the Church has done If anyone needs to apologize it’s those who are doing the persecuting today. I will not answer or apologize for what so called Western Christian nations do because that would be the same thing as asking a holy Jew to answer for the sins of an unholy Jew.

 

[DaveBj]

Again the question was not answered. True or false, Could you in Communist Soviet Russia be executed for being anti-Christian? True or false Could you in Communist Soviet Russia be executed for being anti-Semetic? If both are true, then you have a valid argument.

No to both.

Marxism-Leninism was by definition atheistic, so not only was being anti-Christian not a capital offense – it was almost required. Neither was anti-Semitism a capital offense.

Edit to add – with regard to the specific subject of anti-semitism in the Soviet Union, this may help:

Antisemitism in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

(B.A. in Russian, M.A. in Soviet and East European Studies)

D

 

[StGerardMajella]

Oh really? Why did Joseph Stalin declare that those guilty of antisemitism could be put to death?? Where were Christians afforded this protection?

The Jewish people were heavily persecuted by the Communists. Many famous rabbis fled Russia and came to the U.S. due to the persecution and pogroms. Even Jewish poets were targeted for murder by Stalin. Many ethnic and religious Jews were caught up in Stalin’s Great Purge in the mid-1930’s. There is a long history of oppression against Russian Jews.

And not just Russia, the Jewish people have been maligned for centuries in many different countries. This is even true in our own time. The Jewish people need our compassion and support, not our condemnation.

And are those leaders at the top of the Israeli government the holy Jews or the atheist brand?

The secular State of Israel is another subject altogether, and has nothing whatsoever to do with individual Jews that are practicing the Jewish faith in earnest. This is a diversion and would require another thread to continue.

This is about double standards and hypocrisy more than anything.

Genesis 13:15-17 and 12:3.

 

[Catholicos]

The secular State of Israel is another subject altogether, and has nothing whatsoever to do with individual Jews that are practicing the Jewish faith in earnest. This is a diversion and would require another thread to continue.

So then it’s not antisemetic to be critical of the secular state of Israel correct?

 

[DaveBj]

So then it’s not antisemetic to be critical of the secular state of Israel correct?

Correct – that falls more into the arena of anti-Zionism. Anti-Zionism and anti-semitism are sometimes conflated, but they are separate concepts.

D