Is there a protestant conspiracy on this site

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Alfie:
As a Protestant I feel that a lot of the posts on this forum are not authentic. There are too many posts by so called ex-Protestants.I feel that you have people that are delibertly making up the posts to try to convince Evangelicals that the majority of Protestants are finally seeing the light and coming back to the Roman church. When I watch EWTN there are countless numbers of these so-called ex-Protestants on various programs bemoaning how they wasted all their time in Evangelical churches. Catholic programs now use Protestant words like “born again” to mislead minimal Protestants to think that the Catholic definition of “being born again” is equal to the Protestant equivalent. I get the feeling that it is all one great big propaganda machine. The Catholic church fears Evangelicals more than any other force on earth. I do not believe that Evangelicals were ever asked to join Pope John Paul when he met with various religious leaders. A person who has truly been “born again” is never going to join the Catholic church. However the Bible does say that in the last days that even “the Elect” would be deceived and we Evangelicals are “the Elect” so it is possible I suppose that some could be deceived by “seducing spirits”.
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Bold #1: Why would you even make such a charge? Who do you think is claiming to be an ex-Protestant who really isn’t? Have you asked them for their story? You are dangerously close to “bearing false witness” against another. Doesn’t that offend your Christian sensibilities?
Bold #2: Catholic teaching for 2,000 years has taught that one must be “born again” into the adopted family of Christ thru Baptism and renew themselves by utilizing the Sacrament of Reconciliation, the Eucharist, and performing redeeming works of mercy and charity. It is the “so-called Evangelicals” who have distorted the Word of God and the use of this very important Biblical concept.
Bold #3: We don’t fear you at all. We weep for your soul and pray for you.

Regarding the rest of your post, it is so nonsensical to deserve a response.
 
I am seventy five years old and when I was younger I never heard of Catholic’s being born again. the term was never used by Catholics. In fact about thirty years ago I read a book by a Catholic theologian I think it may have called “the Born Again Catholic” or “Catholic and being born Again”. Or something like that. Anyway he never explained being born again the way Catholic now explain it.

allischalmers
 
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jim1130:
Not that I would interpret, but then I am VERY new so I may not be the best judge. From some interesting posts, I have interpreted some comments as a metter of semantics and misinterpretaiton, but that may be the gamemanship of the individual poster. I have also seen where some answer a question with another question. I think that the Catholic Apologetics on this site handles themselves very well and I cannot tell you how much more I am learning from reading their answers. There truly are very spirit-fileld people on this site.
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This true. My comments earlier did not include everyone on this site.
 
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Kendy:
I do think my fellow protestant should respectfully introduce themselves as protestants before they answer a question to a seeker who is interested in the church’s perspective. Better yet, I would be selective aboiut which posts I answer to. I would not respond to a question about the church’s teaching on indulgences because I disagree with. However, I would respond to something that invites us to discuss indulgences in general.
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It is helpful if it is clear which category an answer in the apologetics forum belongs in:

  1. *]An answer that the poster believes is consistent with the teaching of the Catholic Church
    *]An answer that indicates the poster believes another has misunderstood the teaching of the Church
    *]A disagreement with something claimed to be Church teaching.
    *]An answer which represents the teaching of some non-Catholic group.
    *]A personal opinion held by the poster, who may not know and may not care whether it conforms to Church teaching.
 
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Orionthehunter:
Bold #1: Why would you even make such a charge? Who do you think is claiming to be an ex-Protestant who really isn’t? Have you asked them for their story? You are dangerously close to “bearing false witness” against another. Doesn’t that offend your Christian sensibilities?
Bold #2: Catholic teaching for 2,000 years has taught that one must be “born again” into the adopted family of Christ thru Baptism and renew themselves by utilizing the Sacrament of Reconciliation, the Eucharist, and performing redeeming works of mercy and charity. It is the “so-called Evangelicals” who have distorted the Word of God and the use of this very important Biblical concept.
Bold #3: We don’t fear you at all. We weep for your soul and pray for you.

Regarding the rest of your post, it is so nonsensical to deserve a response.
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Orion:

I find it sad (Edited for inflamatory remark)…well what about the people in Europe, Africa, Asia, the America’s, and Australia who have never heard the name Jesus Christ. Those are the people I weep over, not the Catholics (at least not the Catholics who genuinely love Christ).
 
Wow,

Here is what I have seen,

There is no conspiracy on this site any more than there is a conspiracy about fake stories about, Evangelicals coming to the Catholic Church. Paranoia is not good for truth seeking. Don’t just trust anybody but seek truth with an open heart.

There are many non-catholics who show up from time to time saying they are Catholics and saying some pretty strange things, but you learn to filter those out once you see that isn’t Catholic belief. Just as you see people think that anything a Pope says or some Catholic says is Church teaching, just like anything an Evangelical Pastor says is what all Evangelicals believe.

Most Catholics feel that non-catholic Christians are our brothers and sisters in the faith and would like to share more about the Catholic Church with them.

You will find some uncharitable people on this site and you should just ignore or correct them and we should all work together for the cause of truth.

God Bless
Scylla
 
I don’t think there’s a conspiracy…although we have contrarians that sometimes I think negate or argue for the sake of argument without interiorizing what they’re arguing about. This is not a slight to them…they help us articulate our faith better. Furthermore, it makes this forum far more truer to an idea of a forum…the limited interference from the moderators I think shows how confident the Catholic Church is in her own skin…all comers are welcome.

in XT
 
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Kendy:
Have you heard of Andrew Sullivan. He’s catholic. He’s liberal!

Kendy
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No, he’s a dissenter. Here’s the fundamental difference, Kendy: the Catholic Church stands for something. Her doctrines don’t change. Those who disagree with the teaching are simply dissenters, not merely yet another “flavor” of Catholicism.

Having said that, on many issues good Catholics can disagree with each other, and so there can be good Catholics who might lean towards political liberalism in some areas, or towards political conservatism in some areas and thus disagree—all while remaining good Catholics. But someone who dissents from Church teaching (like Andrew Sullivan) is NOT a “liberal”, but a dissenter. You see, there is a standard—authoratative Church teaching, the authority given to the Church by Christ. As for Jim Wallis, I’ve heard him on the radio: he claims to use the same authority that other Evangelicals use, namely, the Bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. So, wjo are you to tell him that his interpretation is wrong? He claims to be guided by the Holy Spirit. What’s your authority to determine whether he’s right or wrong? You’re just as fallible as he is, you know. About the best you can say is that he has his truth and you have yours—relativism.
 
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Alfie:
Catholic programs now use Protestant words like “born again” to mislead minimal Protestants to think that the Catholic definition of “being born again” is equal to the Protestant equivalent. I get the feeling that it is all one great big propaganda machine. The Catholic church fears Evangelicals more than any other force on earth…A person who has truly been “born again” is never going to join the Catholic church. However the Bible does say that in the last days that even “the Elect” would be deceived and we Evangelicals are “the Elect” so it is possible I suppose that some could be deceived by “seducing spirits”.
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Ahhh yes the whole Born Again issue. Time after time after time the Catholic Church has shown how Catholics are Born again. Explain to me Alfie what is Born Again? I want to make sure I get it right…
 
For the same reason they think the Pope and The Catholic Church are the Whore of Babylon…complete ignorance. Maybe we should have them put windows in their stomachs…just kidding 😉
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josephdavid:
Why do Evangelical think they are “the Elect”?
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quote: AquinasXVI
…although we have contrarians that sometimes I think negate or argue for the sake of argument without interiorizing what they’re arguing about. This is not a slight to them…they help us articulate our faith better.
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Contrarian, reporting for duty! 😃

The best argument I’ve seen in 10 months, was a couple of days
ago. I was arguing that the Church is not infallible,
and a poster suggested that if the scriptures were held
to be infallible, why is it not *possible *that the Church is?

Hats off to that poster. :tiphat:

I have seen Catholic posters who have remained the
soul of charity - in opposing my thoughts…who I
think of as friends. I see them as good people with
good hearts who love Christ and the Church.

I have also been on the receiving end of ad hominens -
some of which made my eyes widen with wonder…
as I thought: This is “defending” the Church??

In over 1500 posts, there is only one that I wrote, that
I offer a sincere apology for, and of which I repent.
It was rude, insensitive and intemperate on my part.
I have no right to speak of fellow Christians and their
Church in that way.
[And what made me feel even more wretched about
this post, was the very temperate reply that I received,
from a poster whom I hold in particular respect.]
I do apologize.

Merry Christmas to all.

Maureen

[reen12]*
 
To be rude and krass is only going to make some one who is in disagreement harder in their stance.

I only show what is to be true and let the non-Catholic decide for him/her-self. It is not me to judge who is true or not.

I believe what St. Paul wrote to the Philippians:
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"

After 37 years of living with a family who is divided between “Born Again Christians” and Catholics I have learned how to defend myself. I chose Catholism on my own free will and much studying as a teenager. And during this time I have yet to be shown how Catholism is wrong. I am quoted scripture but always selective scripture only to be able to contradict with other scripture.
 
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josephdavid:
Why do Evangelical think they are “the Elect”?
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dumspirospero:
For the same reason they think the Pope and The Catholic Church are the Whore of Babylon…complete ignorance. Maybe we should have them put windows in their stomachs…just kidding
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I would like to clarify that not EVERY Evangelical thinks this way. SOME may but not ALL.

Merry Christmas and may God bless you and yours this wonderful season. Thank you so much, Jesus, for coming to this earth and bestowing on us the grace we so do NOT deserve…
 
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Sam88:
It is helpful if it is clear which category an answer in the apologetics forum belongs in:

  1. *]An answer that the poster believes is consistent with the teaching of the Catholic Church
    *]An answer that indicates the poster believes another has misunderstood the teaching of the Church
    *]A disagreement with something claimed to be Church teaching.
    *]An answer which represents the teaching of some non-Catholic group.
    *]A personal opinion held by the poster, who may not know and may not care whether it conforms to Church teaching.
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  1. Sam:

    Well delineated and separated.

    I believe that posters on this board would be well advised to choose which they wish to answer, and then to do those answers in Charity.

    In Christ, Michael
 
Thank You Contemplative, that sums up how we look at it from a Catholic perspective. Lots of posters regardless of their belief fail to understand that this is not a battle that started yesterday or even 500 years ago, but for us it started when Adam was created. Satan has been trying to separate each and every one of us from God from that point on. We are all seeking the truth and should understand that the whole Trinity is trying to get us to accept as much grace as we can. From the Catholic point of view we love the Protestant faiths for what Truth you do have, but we also think that God disires you to have the fullness of faith which he has to offer in his one visible Church. Not the invisible umbrella of the body of Christ which Protestantism professes we are all under. I think John 17 pretty much dispells that.

May God bless and protect us,
JLC
P.S. pass the popcorn please
 
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Alfie:
As a Protestant I feel that a lot of the posts on this forum are not authentic. There are too many posts by so called ex-Protestants.I feel that you have people that are delibertly making up the posts to try to convince Evangelicals that the majority of Protestants are finally seeing the light and coming back to the Roman church. When I watch EWTN there are countless numbers of these so-called ex-Protestants on various programs bemoaning how they wasted all their time in Evangelical churches. Catholic programs now use Protestant words like “born again” to mislead minimal Protestants to think that the Catholic definition of “being born again” is equal to the Protestant equivalent. I get the feeling that it is all one great big propaganda machine. The Catholic church fears Evangelicals more than any other force on earth. I do not believe that Evangelicals were ever asked to join Pope John Paul when he met with various religious leaders. A person who has truly been “born again” is never going to join the Catholic church. However the Bible does say that in the last days that even “the Elect” would be deceived and we Evangelicals are “the Elect” so it is possible I suppose that some could be deceived by “seducing spirits”.
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Good one ALfie! I couldn’t let this one go. I am an ex-Church of the Nazarene attendee. I also used to attend the Church of Christ and so-called non-denominational churches. I converted. I A BORN-AGAIN in the Catholic CHurch. You are right. The Catholic Church definition of Born-again is quite different: I assert that the Cathollic Church definition of Born-again is the FULL definition as Christ intended it to be: Be born of the water AND the Spirit! This truly is the FULLNESS of the truth! And yes, there are a lot of converts lately- praise be to God- And I beleive it is because there is a serious crisi in the protestant well of faith- it is shallow. And more and more protestants are waking up to this fact. I know I did! God Bless!
 
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Flopfoot:
Kendy, you are not a non-believer and neither am I, so we can only speculate about what a non-believer would think. But if I was a non-believer, I would be much less turned away from the faith by what you see in here, than by seeing a religion where no-one is strict on the rules, where people disagree but no-one ever tries to explain why the teachings of the religion are what they are, where no-one is prepared to stand up and fight for what they believe. I know that being strict about your religion and being harsh about it are different, but it is in human nature to get frustrated when you’re dealing with lots of people who won’t agree with you. If I was a non-believer, I think I would understand, and I’d be glad that at least some people care about the truth.

Actually that’s an interesting point - we have had atheists on this site who say that we don’t care about the truth, and care more about being happy. Aren’t they seeing all these massive posts with Catholics defending the truth against Protestants and Protestants defending what they believe to be true against Catholics? Maybe these discussions / fights even go unnoticed by the non-believers.
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Flopfoot:

I don’t often agree with Kendy. He would like to minimize differences and call Heresy “Liberlism” (in the case of Andrew Sullivan) when these aren’t at all appropriate or useful for communication or clarity.

But, On this one, I think he might have a point:

…Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things… I Cor 13:4-7

Have our posts had these characterististics? Have these things marked our communications with each other?

Have we truly obeyed the following as we wrote?

Beloved, let us love one another, because love is of God; everyone who loves is begotten by God and knows God. Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love. I John 4:8-9

If anyone says, “I love God,” but hates his brother, he is a liar; for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. This is the commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother. I John 4:20-21

I think we would do well to read the following pages from the Verba Seniorum:

Chapter V: On Charity to Sinners
nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/wd05.htm

Chapter XIII: On Anger
nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/wd13.htm

Chapter XIV: On Avoiding Many Words
nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/wd14.htm

And please remember, “A mild answer calms wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.” Prov. 15:1 Know this, my dear brothers: everyone should be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath, for the wrath of a man does not accomplish the righteousness of God. James 1:19-20

Kendy has a point. We haven’t always been quick to hear and slow to speak, or patient and kind. In fact, we’ve been pompous and quick-tempered in many of our responses.

Fo those times when I’ve been, I apologize and beg the forgiveness of everyone here and on the other threads.

In Christ, Michael
 
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