Is there a race problem in America?

[meltzerboy2]

From the liberal perspective, this conservative bad behavior may not be ostensibly endorsed by a major party, but in reality it is. Just as conservatives today believe that the Dem Party has gone off the rails by becoming ultra-leftist, liberals today believe that the Rep Party has become alt-right in its thinking, particularly in the domain of social issues.

 

[LilyM]

The point is that if you have Christian principles in your heart you overcome any racism that is there. You conquer it so that it disappears and you don’t mistakenly create it by assuming the worst in others.

As the teaching of the apostles says

There are two Ways, one of Life and one of Death, and there is a great difference between the two Ways.

Really? Jesus expressed perfect Christian love to His enemies. He certainly didn’t manage to ‘conquer’ the hatred against Him so that it ‘disappeared’. The haters continued to hate Him, so much so that they KILLED Him !

 

[silentwitness]

Really? Jesus expressed perfect Christian love to His enemies. He certainly didn’t manage to ‘conquer’ the hatred against Him so that it ‘disappeared’. The haters continued to hate Him, so much so that they KILLED Him !

We are taught to see our evil as having caused the crucifixion of Jesus.
Has He not conquered us?

Did He not conquer at last one thief crucified with Him?
Did He not conquer saint Paul who executed Christians?
Did He not conquer saint Peter who denied Him?
Did He not conquer the apostles who fled from Him and disowned Him?
Did He not conquer the first followers who repented and flocked to the early movement.
Did He not conquer the very empire who considered Him nothing?

Down through the Christian period did He not conquer the evil in many hearts so as to create the Christian civilisation that still stands today?

Evil has not disappeared everywhere but that is our ongoing vocation for those of us Jesus has already conquered, and those He conquers daily.

 

[Polak]

The cop that was involved in the Minneapolis, if found guilty of the crime of murder, needs to face the rest of this life in jail.

The cop, derek Chavin, was charged with 2nd degree murder. That basically means he purposely killed the guy. I don’t believe there was any proof of this. In fact, it looks like pressure from BLM, the media and riots caused the court to make this decision.

As for there being a race problem in America. The stats show something very different to the narrative the mainstream media is pushing. The media would have you believe whites are constantly killing blacks, and so are the cops. The stats show more whites get killed by cops than blacks, and that there are more attacks by blacks on whites than whites on blacks. There are also more attacks on blacks by other blacks than whites on blacks. This isn’t a narrative or spin, these are the stats. Spin them however you like.

 

[silentwitness]

Upgrading the charge to 2nd degree might mean the officer is acquitted and so continue and exacerbate the unnecessary racial divide.

 

[phil3]

at the very least. It could be argued that it even showed intent to kill.

You have no idea of his intent.

 

[phil3]

I had no idea they upgrade the charges. by doing so they run a very high risk of the man being found no guilty.

 

[TULIPed]

As for there being a race problem in America. The stats show something very different to the narrative the mainstream media is pushing.

Yep. It’s just the “false narrative” the media is pushing. No racism here. Nothing but rainbows and unicorns as far as the eye can see. (All those people marching out there are just too dumb to figure it out. Thank goodness we’re all smart enough to solve the riddle.)

 

[Polak]

Did I say there there is no racism? Yes, they are pushing a false narrative. Covering some stories and burying others is called pushing a narrative. When’s the last time you saw the mainstream media cover a black on white crime and talk about it for days or even weeks, as a racist attack. Or how about the police wrongfully killing a white person?

And yes, some of the people that are marching are incredibly stupid. Today they’re shouting ‘silence is violence’ in London. Right, but the actual violence that was taking place in US cities, that wasn’t violence, was it? Or the policewoman knocked off her horse in London yesterday who had to be taken to hospital with a punctured lung, broken collarbone and shattered ribs, that wasn’t violence, was it?

 

[StudentMI]

When’s the last time you saw the mainstream media cover a black on white crime and talk about it for days or even weeks, as a racist attack. Or how about the police wrongfully killing a white person?

Very true.

 

[TULIPed]

Did I say there there is no racism?

How much is there? How many black friends do you have? (I have very, very few I’m sad to say). Have you spoken with them about racism? How much do they say there is?

How do we know how false the narrative is if we haven’t talked with (potential) victims thereof? If they were to say there is a great deal of racism would you believe them?

 

[RobertAdams]

Hello Paddy, first tell me where you are getting your idea that the activists and journalists who support BLM have NOT been talking about crime within the black community for a long time? Why dont you prove that (false) accusation rather than assuming you know?

 

[Polak]

How do we know how false the narrative is if we haven’t talked with (potential) victims thereof? If they were to say there is a great deal of racism would you believe them?

The mainstream media doesn’t cover certain stories that don’t push certain narratives. Racism is one of these narratives. Part of that narrative is that black people just innocently go about their lives and get attacked by racist white people, or the racist police. When you do a bit of digging, you realise the media have ignored a heck of a lot of statistics and information which conflicts with that narrative.

For one, as I told you, they don’t talk about the stats I mentioned earlier. If you only watch the mainstream media and don’t do any research of your own, you’d think the police were doing nothing but looking for innocent black people to kill.

Take even the most recent incident that has caused these protests and riots. The mainstream media never once mentioned the background of the victim. The narrative was supposed to be, innocent black who was getting his life back on track, is purposely killed in cold blood by a racist white cop. This helps the narrative of the evil racist police killing innocent black people. The real story however was, black man with numerous criminal convictions, which include multiple stints in prison for drugs and one long stint in prison for armed burglary, in which he pointed a gun at the stomach of a pregnant woman while others robbed her home, died while he was being restrained by a policeman, who by the way was with other policemen who were not white. The victim in this case also has drugs in his sytem, which makes it unlikely he was getting his ‘life back on track’.

Now, was it fair what happened to him? Of course it isn’t. Are the actions of the policeman and the way he handled him on the ground what killed him? It certainly looks that way. Was he killed on purpose? There is no evidence of that. He might have been, he might not have been. All this stuff takes time to figure out properly. Sadly though, because of the media’s dishonest narrative, people are now out protesting police brutality, and also holding up pictures and painting murals of the victim, who was actually quite a bad person. I’m not saying people don’t have a right to protest injustice or racism if they believe it’s happening, but perhaps if they had been told the full story, they might be holding up pictures of other people to make their point, rather than holding up pictures of this guy. How do you think the woman who feared he would shot her and her baby feels when she sees this?

The reason I know the narrative is false is because I have looked at the stats and seen many stories that have gone virtually unreported. They are unreported for a reason.

If the media were honest and actually just covered what is going on, without twisting things, without ignoring stories that don’t fit what they are trying to say, it would be easier to have a clearer picture of the situation.

 

[TULIPed]

For one, as I told you, they don’t talk about the stats I mentioned earlier. If you only watch the mainstream media and don’t do any research of your own, you’d think the police were doing nothing but looking for innocent black people to kill.

If an animal was pinned for 8 minutes, whimpering the whole time would anyone be talking about a “false narrative”?

Look I get it. Media - it’s hallowed place in the Constitution notwithstanding - is a business. Ultimately, they’ve got to push content that sells. So clearly, the media is not blameless in this mess.

Forget about the media for a moment. How ready and willing are we to listen to our black friends? Are we open to believing their stories? How often have we listened to them one-on-one?

 

[blackforest]

Did I say there there is no racism?

What are some examples of where you see racism, specifically against ethnic minorities?

 

[RobertAdams]

Hello poster Polak, you are right that there is always a narrative in how issues are covered in the media and this one is no exception. Overall, I still think that the problem of racism towards black people is understated by the collective (including the full range from the root to breitbart) media rather than overstated.

I have a few reasons for this. First is context, the historical extent of anti-black racism in the US is so enormous, from slavery, to jim crow, to segregation, that it wouldnt make sense to approach black issues without always asking how they fit into this context. Just like we look at how other contemporary issues relate to the founding fathers’ vision and the constitution, civil war, vietnam etc; it only makes sense to weigh the whole of our experience.

Second, while I agree that anti white experiences happen I still think the extent of that problem is far smaller. For me this is a matter of both personal experience and reason. I (white person) have also been harassed, threatened, and been on the receiving end of serious crime by black people. Some of these instances were explicitly due to my race and others not provably so, but pretty obvious to me. I think people are all essentially equal, so it stands to reason that if these things happened to me in majority black areas, then they are happening to black people in majority white areas…like America. It also occurred to me that if someone said “that didnt really happen” to me it would be offensive, condescending and incorrect. So when black people say it happened to them I assume they are telling the truth, because assuming they just got it wrong while I didnt would be, well racist. The way I see it, given that black people are a relatively small percentage of the population, they are most likely bumping into this crap all the time, as opposed to the handful of times I did. And when you include the historical context of racism in America, then the incidents I experienced are just that, incidents. Certainly not good, but not a major American “problem.”*

Also I’m sure there’s an element of preference. I am more interested in learning about topics that bear upon what I can do or not do to help with the problem than hearing about how black people can do something different in their lives. I also dont really think they can do anything to stop white racism, as whites are the only ones capable of making any choices about what whites do.

*also considering that the areas where these incidents took place were only majority black (and poor) because a previous generation of whites was so irrationally racist they supported housing discrimination, it’s doubtful to me they would even have occurred if not for America’s crazy anti-black racism problem.

 

[Nepperhan]

I feel the left have created a race problem out of nothing in order to create divisionism so they can politicize it and make themselves the solution.

My! That’s a view not shared by many.

I think the racial situation is like with alcoholism: If you have to ask the question; the answer is probably"Yes".

 

[Polak]

What are some examples of where you see racism, specifically against ethnic minorities?

Why do you want me to give you examples of racism, and specifically of examples of it against ethnic minorities?

I told you racism is out there. It’s one of the sins people commit, isn’t that enough?

First is context, the historical extent of anti-black racism in the US is so enormous, from slavery, to jim crow, to segregation, that it wouldnt make sense to approach black issues without always asking how they fit into this context.

Hi @RobertAdams. I actually wrote another post in this thread that is currently ‘under moderation’ and needs to be approved before being posted (I don’t know if this is just happening to my posts in this thread or posts in this thread in general). In that post I do mention that historical context can be brought into the discussion, as to why some things are the way they are, but there can’t be a narrative, it has to be a discussion about hard facts, with evidence. But for the most part I agree with you.

Of course my inclination would be to believe a black person if they say they have experienced racism, as would be my inclination if a white person says they experienced racism, or something else bad happened to them. People don’t always tell the truth in these cases, but hopefully most of the time they do and my initial stance is to try to assume they are unless proven otherwise. I think what makes people angry is when they see something being said in the media that simply doesn’t add up. I honestly don’t care to talk about race much and don’t if I can avoid it. People are people. Racism is a sin. I know there are some racist white people out there who believe black people behave in such and such a way because they are black, and there are racist black people who believe white people are inherently evil or racist. The only thing that bothers me in this race issue is when I see lies being told to push a narrative. I mean look, if racism has been and still is a problem in the USA, then the media shouldn’t need to tell lies and omit particular details when covering a story. Just say what happened and give all the details, without omitting any. Do you remember the story about the Catholic kids from Covington high school? That’s a great example of a complete lie told to push a narrative.

 

[Nepperhan]

What are some examples of where you see racism, specifically against ethnic minorities?

*Variance in treatment by law enforcement according to race

*Job candidates rejected because of race

*Legislation designed with a disparate impact on different racial groups

*Stigmatization of ethnic minority immigrants as criminals

*Negative stereotypes assigned group-wide to minorities

That’s what I’ve seen personally and recently.

 

[Polak]

also considering that the areas where these incidents took place were only majority black (and poor) because a previous generation of whites was so irrationally racist they supported housing discrimination

I do mention this in my post ‘awaiting approval’. It’s definitely something than can be talked about in the discussion. I hope that post is approved soon. It’s quite long. I have no idea why it wouldn’t be.

Variance in treatment by law enforcement according to race

You may well have experienced such an incident, but there is no statistical evidence to suggest this is the norm.

Job candidates rejected because of race

I’m not suggesting this doesn’t happen, but I believe it also hasn’t happened when it’s been claimed to have happened. People also get rejected for various other unfair reasons, that aren’t related to race.

Legislation designed with a disparate impact on different racial groups

Could you give examples?

I know you were just giving examples based on your experiences, but I wanted to comment on a few of them.