Is there a race problem in America?

[Polak]

I don’t think you have read what Black lives Matter stand for

I think if a few more people actually read some of the things Black Lives Matter supports and wants to do, they might think twice about supporting them.

It’s a clever left tactic. You give something a nice name to make it seem okay. Patrick Coffin (formely of Catholic Answers) did a good video on this recently. Black Lives Matter, how could you possibly oppose an organisation with such a name, right? Much like, how could you oppose women being able to choose what to do with their own body (abortion)? In reality though these movements are very sinister.

BLMUK has a GoFund page. On their page, where they have raised around £700,000 so far (almost $900,000), they have a long explanation about who they are. Here are some of the things they write.

We’re guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world.

They want to dismantle capitalism. Sounds a bit far left, no?

We build deep relationships across the diaspora and strategise to challenge the rise of the authoritarian right-wing across the world, from Brazil to Britain.

Oh look. They’re against right-wing governments. But this isn’t political, right?

We lift up the experiences of the most marginalised in our communities, including but not limited to working class queer, trans, undocumented, disabled, Muslim, sex workers, women/non-binary, HIV+ people.

What does fighting for gay rights, trans and non-binary people have to do with black lives?

Black people in the UK are more likely to be in prison than those in the US. This is racism.

Ok this one is just confusing. It looks like they’re complaining that black people in the UK have it worse than black people in the US.

Black workers are paid up to 20% less than their white counterparts.

If they mean for the exact same job, that’s just a straight up lie. If they mean generally, well yeah, possibly, but people have different jobs that pay different wages.

 

[buffalo]

 

[RuthAnne]

An offensive that is creating division, hatred and anarchy

I find it interesting that you lump anarchy with division and hatred. Anarchy is a very kind, loving peaceful way of living. No violence, no force, no aggression. Anarchy is based on the principle of non aggression. Relationships and contracts are voluntary. Freedom is respected. Anarchy is what we should all seek.

 

[StudentMI]

Unfortunately Catholic social teaching requires that there be a state. I came across a very clear quote on the matter from Leo XIII. That said I do read a lot of anarchist writers, including Dorothy Day.

 

[RuthAnne]

Unfortunately Catholic social teaching requires that there be a state.

Then maybe I just suck at Catholicism. But I’m about as close to an anarchist as one can get.

And just to be clear . . . rioting, looting, pillaging and all that, are not anarchy. Those are the opposite of anarchy.

 

[Welshrabbit]

maybe I just suck at Catholicism.

We all do RuthAnne, we all do.

 

[goout]

Racism is a manifestation of ignorance. If you can’t distinguish that others are just as human as you, you will be afraid of them or indifferent to their welfare, depending on your personality.

And if you lack virtues like prudence (self control) and wisdom, you will act on your stupidity to the detriment of those unlike you.

 

[PetraG]

And just to be clear . . . rioting, looting, pillaging and all that, are not anarchy. Those are the opposite of anarchy.

an·ar·chy /ˈanərkē/ noun
a) a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.
b) absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual, regarded as a political ideal.
c) the state of a society being freely constituted without authorities or a governing body. It may also refer to a society or group of people that totally rejects a set hierarchy.

It is a fantasy that a society can have (b) or (c ) without winding up with (a).

We are a fallen race, prone to indulge the impulses that come from concupiscence. Without laws, there is lawlessness, because even though we do have a law written on our hearts, we tend to rationalize why we are free to choose not to apply the limits of just behavior to ourselves. Unless someone is entrusted with the authority to enforce the laws and is held to account to enforce the law and only the law, there will also be lawlessness, because those who obtain the authority to presumably enforce the law will in actuality become a law unto themselves.

 

[PetraG]

With the recent murders of unarmed black men, like the incident in Minneapolis, is this proof that the police are unfairly targeting the black population in the United States?

No, these are crystallizing examples of a widely-experienced inequality in treatment based on accidental appearance. Those are not the sole incidents that have convinced so many people that we need to get real about establishing a just society. They are the incidents that crystallized the urgency of the problem.

 

[RuthAnne]

That’s an extremely poor definition of anarchy.

I realize it’s a fantasy. For that reason, I’ve satisfied myself with just following our Constitution, but if you’re a Republican or Democrat, you most likely are an enemy of the Constitution.

 

[PetraG]

That’s an extremely poor definition of anarchy.

I realize it’s a fantasy. For that reason, I’ve satisfied myself with just following our Constitution, but if you’re a Republican or Democrat, you most likely are an enemy of the Constitution.

If you mean in the sense of thinking either party is operating based on pursuit of a healthy form of self-governance intended by the framers of the Constitution, no, I’m not a Republican or a Democrat. I think both parties are bought and paid for, frankly. That’s why I really resent being told that refusing to vote for either of the candidates put forward by the two major parties is a “wasted vote.” It seems to me that there is no better way to guarantee this mess never changes than to insist on always voting for either the Republican or the Democrat.

Oregon does not have open primaries, though, so I do register with one party or the other in order to be able to vote for at least one set of candidates running in the primaries. That’s life.

As for the Constitution, while it does not leave any states with a legal way to get out of the Union, in other respects it is, I think, admirably open to amendment. Not too easy, but not impossible. And, well, it is probably just as well that statehood is the Hotel California.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

So is the argument that because it happens rarely, it’s not an issue? Or is it that racism in the workplace only becomes an issue when it meets a certain threshold? As long as less than 100 black people are passed over because of race, we’ll let it go. That 101st one though - we’re going to really get serious!

I think the issue is that there many possibilities for why a person may have been passed over and whether it was based on race or not isn’t really possible to know for sure.

 

[PetraG]

Is whether it is based on religion impossible to know for sure, too?
Are you saying the only kind of unjust discrimination that can be stopped is the most brazen kind? (And do not get me wrong, because I do understand the pitfalls of automatically assuming that every action against the goals of someone who is more vulnerable to discrimination actually IS discrimination in every case. It is a thorny matter, without a doubt.)

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Is whether it is based on religion impossible to know for sure, too?
Are you saying the only kind of unjust discrimination that can be stopped is the most brazen kind?

Yes, all of that it impossible to know without proof.
There has to be evidence otherwise it is an unsupported presumption

 

[TULIPed]

Yes, all of that it impossible to know without proof.
There has to be evidence otherwise it is an unsupported presumption

Geez. That’s a tough one. No racism without proof. I mean these days, you’d probably need video for anyone to believe it right? Video proof - now that’s a hard one.

A video…Hmmmmm. I’m going to go out on a limb here, so give me some rope - but imagine we had a video of a black guy pinned to the ground for - oh, just to make it really crazy - say 8 minutes (I know - that’s silly and would never happen, but work with me here). And further imagine that he was begging for mercy the whole time, and then he died. Would that work?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

No racism without proof. I mean these days, you’d probably need video for anyone to believe it right? Video proof - now that’s a hard one.

The video only shows violence and the motives behind that violence could stem from many different sources, otherwise it is mindreading which makes for poor support and has a great margin of error.

 

[TULIPed]

The video only shows violence and the motives behind that violence could stem from many different sources, otherwise it is mindreading which makes for poor support and has a great margin of error.

Roger. Got it. Mindreading. So no proof, no racism. Video’s don’t count. Personal testimonies don’t count.

I’m guessing you don’t think there’s racism in this country. If you think there is, where is it?

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Roger. Got it. Mindreading. So no proof, no racism. Video’s don’t count. Personal testimonies don’t count.

The motives are unclear from the video and if a personal testimony can confirm that this police officer has a history of racism then it would be settled, but as of yet I haven’t seen any hard evidence.

I’m guessing you don’t think there’s racism in this country. If you think there is, where is it?

I don’t experience racism so I don’t know what forms it takes, but just to be clear I am not white.

 

[goout]

Racism is usually insidious rather than overt. You’d have to look into each heart to know what the fear factors and motivations are. Some people will harm other races only when alone, others will do it only when in groups.

Fear and agitation ratchet up the racism. If police are afraid, if they are abused by crowds, or suffer continual danger and abuse from a particular race, that allows racist predispositions to bubble up. If they are hanging around constantly with other racists and their behavior is protected by a union, you have a recipe for violence.

The black teenage I mentor was not legally violated by the police when he was sent off to DH for being with a white girl all night. He was simply charged and sent off to wait with no help. It was easy for the system to take the charges 100% seriously without verification, and send him away. When a nice white kid would have -maybe- had his parents called to pick him up.
But this was a large 16 year old black kid out all night with a white girl in a small town. And that makes some people very afraid.

The day of his hearing on these charges, the girl did not show up and no one had spoken to her. She wasn’t the one who called the police. His buddy was the one who accuse him and called the police, because he got in trouble with his parents. The girl never made a statement against my man.

This hearing was going forward and we were standing in the hall. I spoke up as his mentor and said: “it doesn’t sound like this girl takes these charges very seriously if she’s not even here and there’s no statement”. The probation officer evidently never thought of that.

He says’ “yea I guess you’re right. I will talk to the judge”. He was sent home after a quick hearing. He lost a summer of his life because someone accused him of something and no one in the system cared enough to find the truth and help him.

I would say racism is not usually overt and violent like ABC and CNN would have us believe, it is a stagnant pool of indifference to people who are different from us.

As JP2 said, the opposite of love is not hate, it’s use and indifference.

 

[RuthAnne]

I’m guessing you don’t think there’s racism in this country. If you think there is, where is it?

There’s racism in this country. But it doesn’t necessarily require violence. My husband for instance, would never hire a certain race of people to work for him. Not ever. And they aren’t black. My husband is as harmless as a kitten, but he just can’t work with them. And it’s for the best that they don’t get hired.