Is There A Rapture?

[jjones]

Are we going to be lifted up to the clouds to meet the Lord? How do I respond to a protestant when I am told the scriptures say this?

 

[ziapueblo]

Are we going to be lifted up to the clouds to meet the Lord? How do I respond to a protestant when I am told the scriptures say this?

Not in the way your protestant friend thinks we are. Check out this article, Are We Living in the Last Days?, by Carl Olson. Hope it helps.

God bless,
ZP

 

[ziapueblo]

Here’s another one, Questioning the “Left Behind” Rapture, by David Bristow.

 

[elvisman]

Are we going to be lifted up to the clouds to meet the Lord? How do I respond to a protestant when I am told the scriptures say this?

Tell them that those who are in a state of grace will be lifted - at the end of the world.
Nowhere does scripture tell us that this is a pre-Tribulation event. Jesus will return only once more - not 2 or 3 times more.
Challenge them to furnish you with the scripture passages that indicate multiple returns.

 

[Mickey]

How do I respond to a protestant when I am told the scriptures say this?

You can say that it is an invented doctrine made popular by John Darby in the early 1800’s entering mainstream Chritianity when it was included in the Scofield reference Bible.

 

[PraRFLEsEkHm]

I say that Scripture explicitly says “At the Last Trumpet”, in the verse that they always quote :

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet: for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall rise again incorruptible. And we shall be changed.

Then I say go and read what Revelations says about the last trumpet:

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound the trumpet, the mystery of God shall be finished, as he hath declared by his servants the prophets.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded the trumpet: and there were great voices in heaven, saying: The kingdom of this world is become our Lord’s and his Christ’s, and he shall reign for ever and ever. Amen.

It is quite plain that the seventh trumpet is The End. There is no escape hatch. We are put here to witness, and that means we will all go through the “Tribulation”. Some to Martyrdom, and some alive to meet Him in the air. But go through it we will. This doesn’t mean will will be suffering as those who do not (yet) believe however:

(here are also verses they use to defend the rapture - but notice where thy are located)

Rev 7:3 Saying: Hurt not the earth nor the sea nor the trees, till we sign the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Rev 7:9 After this, (The signing of the faithful) I saw a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and in sight of the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.

Rev 7:14 And I said to him: My Lord, thou knowest. And he said to me: These are they who are come out of great tribulation and have washed their robes and have made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

BUT, later in Revelations, at the first Trumpet Blast we see:

Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth nor any green thing nor any tree: but only the men who have not the sign of God on their foreheads.

Since the Seals come far in advance of the Trumpets, both in Revelations itself, and in events upon the earth, those passages (concerning the sign) cannot be talking about the “Rapture”.

What the other verses are talking about (Rev 7:9, 14), I think, are those who are Martyred:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: How long, O Lord (Holy and True), dost thou not judge and revenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given to every one of them one; And it was said to them that they should rest for a little time till their fellow servants and their brethren, **who are to be slain even as they, should be filled up.

Rev 7:14 And I said to him: My Lord, thou knowest. And he said to me: These are they who are come out of great tribulation and have washed their robes and have made them white in the blood of the Lamb.**

They are only 20 verses apart, and they can’t be those who are sealed because those are mentioned much later in Scripture, they are most probably those who “are yet to come” added to the number of martyrs.

So, nothing they present as ‘evidence’ stands up under scrutiny. Even cursory scrutiny (which is referring to me). There is no rapture. There is a LOT of evidence in Scripture, however, for the martyrdom of the faithful.

Peace

John

 

[BRB]

What is the official Catholic version of what occurs with the living and the dead on Christ’s return ?

Does he come to claim his Church … or to deal with the Jewish nation issues ?

 

[Church_Militant]

I wrote this in response to just such a question.
The Rapture?

 

[ziapueblo]

What is the official Catholic version of what occurs with the living and the dead on Christ’s return ?

Here is how Carl Olson ends his article titled Are We Living in the Last Days?:

In conclusion, it can be seen that the Catholic Church says relatively little about future events leading up to Christ’s Second Coming. Many of her teachings are rejections (either implicit or explicit), not affirmations, of particular beliefs such as the dispensational dichotomy between the Church and Israel, the “secret” Rapture, and the earthly millennial kingdom. What she does teach is quite clear, as well as succinct: there will be a Second Coming, a time of trial which the Church must endure, an Antichrist, a conversion of Israel to Christ, a definitive judgment of all people, and the fulfillment of the Kingdom that has already begun in the Church. Within those parameters, Catholics may freely roam, search the Scriptures, and seek to better understand the Word of God.

 

[Holly3278]

The Bible says that Jesus will come back only once, not two or three times as the pre-tribulational, pre-millenial rapture types like to say. They believe in a heresy and unfortunately are thoroughly convinced that they are right. Thankfully, God will judge them based upon their hearts.

 

[BRB]

I wrote this in response to just such a question.
The Rapture?

Rapture = Second coming of Christ … when he comes in glory unexpectedly for Church.

Christ spoke of this event and for all to be ever ready.

But, how this all fits into John’s extensive account of endtimes seems something that Protestants claim to know … and Catholics won’t venture to try to explain.

Surely Catholics have some beliefs on the Millennium and where the Jewish Nation fits into John’s vision. Revelations can’t only be about the Eucharistic aspects of the Mass.

 

[BRB]

URL=“http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0087.html”]Are We Living in the Last Days?

:

Thanks … good article on what Church accepts regarding endtimes.

Basically we are free to believe whatever we wish.

Except … the RCC is not to be the organization that administers brutal world dominion and led by satan, etc.

It would seem that since Peter announced at Pentecost that we were in the end days … this restricts Churches ability to say much more on topic.

 

[Henning]

It’s interesting to note that Paul was temporarily raptured/enraptured in 2 Cor 12:2-4,
“I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago
whether in the body I do not know,
or out of the body I do not know, God knows
such a man was **caught-up **(αρπαγεντα / arpagenta) to the third heaven
3 And I know how such a man
whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows
4 was **caught-up **(ηρπαγη / hrpagh) into Paradise, and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak”

from Friberg:
3633 αρπαγεντα (from arpazw) (1) as forcibly taking someone or something snatch, seize, take away (2) as the action of thieves and wild beasts steal, carry off, drag away (3) of seed already sown carry off, snatch away (4) of an ecstatic vision or experience catch up or away

 

[Church_Militant]

It would seem that since Peter announced at Pentecost that we were in the end days … this restricts Churches ability to say much more on topic.

Exactly!