Is there a Violence in the Bible

[gurrato_alaien]

Is there Violence in the Bible

I’ve often seen Christians, Jews, as well as other non-Muslims making statements about there being violence in the Quran but they tend to overlook the violence in the Bible. The prophet Muhammad did fight in wars as well as command his followers to fight, but so did many of the OT prophets like Joshua, Moses, and Samuel, who was considered the greatest Israelite prophet. There are also numerous examples in the Bible of grotesque and unwarranted violence against innocent people committed by the Israelites and their God.

Killing of Innocent Children Condoned in the Bible:

2 Kings 223
From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. “Go on up, you baldhead!” they said. “Go on up, you baldhead!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD . Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

Important Note: When Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him travelled from Mecca to the city of Al-Ta’if to preach Islam, the pagans there had their own children throw rocks on the Prophet until his face and body were swollen and bleeding. The Prophet peace be upon him prayed for the people of Al-Ta’if to be Guided to Islam. And ultimately they were Guided and they embraced Islam. While Prophet Muhammad loved and forgave children for throwing stones at him, the Bible shows ZERO tolerance to even innocent name-calling from children; let alone having them throwing stones!!

Numbers 31:17-18
"Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

Exodus 1314 “In days to come, when your son asks you, ‘What does this mean?’ say to him, ‘With a mighty hand the LORD brought us out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 15 When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to let us go, the LORD killed every firstborn in Egypt, both man and animal. This is why I sacrifice to the LORD the first male offspring of every womb and redeem each of my firstborn sons.’ 16 And it will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead that the LORD brought us out of Egypt with his mighty hand.”

By the way, NOT A SINGLE NOBLE VERSE in the Noble Quran does it Command for Muslims to kill innocent children!

Murders by Prophets in the Bible:
Exodus 213
The next day he went out and saw two Hebrews fighting. He asked the one in the wrong, “Why are you hitting your fellow Hebrew?” 14 The man said, “Who made you ruler and judge over us? Are you thinking of killing me as you killed the Egyptian?” Then Moses was afraid and thought, “What I did must have become known.”
15 When Pharaoh heard of this, he tried to kill Moses, but Moses fled from Pharaoh and went to live in Midian, where he sat down by a well.

Numbers 2517
“Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them,
18 because they treated you as enemies when they deceived you in the affair of Peor and their sister Cozbi, the daughter of a Midianite leader, the woman who was killed when the plague came as a result of Peor.”

1 Kings 21
20 Ahab said to Elijah, “So you have found me, my enemy!” “I have found you,” he answered, "because you have sold yourself to do evil in the eyes of the LORD. 21 'I am going to bring disaster on you. I will consume your descendants and cut off from Ahab every last male in Israel-slave or free.

22 I will make your house like that of Jeroboam son of Nebat and that of Baasha son of Ahijah, because you have provoked me to anger and have caused Israel to sin.’

2 Kings 9
7 You are to destroy the house of Ahab your master, and I will avenge the blood of my servants the prophets and the blood of all the LORD’s servants shed by Jezebel. 8 The whole house of Ahab will perish. I will cut off from Ahab every last male in Israel-slave or free.
9 I will make the house of Ahab like the house of Jeroboam son of Nebat and like the house of Baasha son of Ahijah.

This is only a small portion of the violence found within the Bible. Yet Christians and Jews alike accuse the Quran of promoting violence, when in fact the Qurans concept of war is far more humane and just than the Bibles.

Peace.

 

[Eden]

Is there Violence in the Bible

The Bible is “corrupted”, remember? You can’t have it both ways.

Of course, there is nowhere in the Quran that states that the Bible is corrupted but somehow you continue to push that as a teaching of Muhammed.

 

[inJESUS]

exactly…are you sure these are not corrupt?
furthermore, we follow the NT…we’d appreciate it if you quote from it. Finally, the Old Law is not an eternal law, it was specific to certain people at certain time…however, the violence in islam (as you admit) is eternal…to us, the eternal law is Jesus…if Jesus said NO to violence and killing, it is because He is THE TRUTH; neither Moses not any other prophet was sinless, including mohammad.

PS: saying “innocent children” means you don’t know what the passages you quote ( from famous sites) are about.

 

[inJESUS]

gurrato alaien:

Killing of Innocent Children Condoned in the Bible:

COLOR=DarkRed]Important Note:

When Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him travelled from Mecca to the city of Al-Ta’if to preach Islam, the pagans there had their own children throw rocks on the Prophet until his face and body were swollen and bleeding. The Prophet peace be upon him prayed for the people of Al-Ta’if to be Guided to Islam. And ultimately they were Guided and they embraced Islam. While Prophet Muhammad loved and forgave children for throwing stones at him, the Bible shows ZERO tolerance to even innocent name-calling from children; let alone having them throwing stones!!

First off, they were not innocent kids as you said…

It is reported on the authority of Sa’b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.

Saheeh Bukhari

Volumn 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 256.

Narated By As-Sab bin Jaththama : The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, “They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans).” I also heard the Prophet saying, “The institution of Hima is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle.”

Violence in the OT? yes, because it is a book that narrates history of people thousands of years ago, with all their sins and misunderstandings…but as i said , it was TEMPORAL, for CERTAIN people.

 

[inJESUS]

i could explain the passages you quoted but am being interrupted every now and then cuz am a bit busy…but let me conclude with this : to compare or justify Islam’s violence cuz the Old Testament is also violent is a false analogy and baseless for many reasons :

First, the wars and violence found within the OT are descriptive, not prescriptive… they are describing events as they occurred, with specific people for a specific purpose & time… these instructions are not prescriptions for followers today, which is unlike the quran which is biding on all muslims for all times, making it mandatory that all the faithful wage war against the kuffar till the end of the age. So what happened happened, it was not eternal or a commandmant : kill non believers…no…this was the history of events .

2nd, none of the OT wars were fought with the aim of forcibly converting the pagans to the religion of Israel…these wars had a specific purpose of punishment &judgment, that the time had come for God to punish specific peoples for all of their atrocious acts and abominations.

But most importantly is that the New fulfills the Old…we follow the King of Peace who gave the True, eternal law.

 

[cestusdei]

Sure. God might say go and fight the Amelikites. That would be bad for them. But you don’t find God saying go out and kill everyone who doesn’t agree with you. That’s what you find in Islam.

 

[onesimplemind]

gurrato alaien:

This is only a small portion of the violence found within the Bible. Yet Christians and Jews alike accuse the Quran of promoting violence, when in fact the Qurans concept of war is far more humane and just than the Bibles.

Peace.

Yea you don’t want to kill innocent civilians until they had the choice to submit or reject Islam. I wonder what happens to innocents when they decide Islam is not the way? I wonder what happens to those innocents if they are not “people of the Book”?

 

[gurrato_alaien]

The Bible the only Holy Book in the world that orders the killing the children!!

JOSH 6:21 And killed all that were in it, man and woman, young and old. The oxen also and the sheep, and the asses, they slew with the edge of the sword.

1SAM 15:3 Now therefore go, and smite Amalec, and utterly destroy all that he hath: spare him not, nor covet any thing that is his: but slay both man and woman, child and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.

1SAM 15:8 And he took Agag the king of Amalec alive: but all the common people he slew with the edge of the sword.

JER 45:4 Thus saith the Lord: Thus shalt thou say to him: Behold, them whom I have built, I do destroy: and them whom I have planted, I do pluck up, and all this land.

This is the true terrorism

---

Allah Almighty Said regarding innocent souls in the Noble Quran:

“But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)”

“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)”

“On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)”

Allah Almighty also Commanded UNCOMPROMISED Justice:

“O ye who believe! Stand out firmly For justice, as witnesses To Allah, even as against Yourselves, or your parents, Or your kin, and whether It be (against) rich or poor: For Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (Of your hearts), lest ye Swerve, and if ye Distort (justice) or decline To do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted With all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:135)”

“And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. (The Noble Quran, 2:193)”

“But if at the time of division other relatives, or orphans or poor, are present, feed them out of the (property), and speak to them words of kindness and justice. (The Noble Quran, 4:8)”

“If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God. (The Noble Quran, 4:30)”

“God doth command you to render back your Trusts to those to whom they are due; And when ye judge between man and man, that ye judge with justice: Verily how excellent is the teaching which He giveth you! For God is He Who heareth and seeth all things. (The Noble Quran, 4:58)”

Peace.

 

[jimmy]

The difference is that in the bible it is recording history but in the koran it says that you should kill all infidels and those who don’t accept the muslim faith.

 

[MugenOne]

You are quoting from the OT. Life during the OT time was brutal and the Israelites were also hard headed. People believed in polytheistic gods. The True God wanted to show them Who was really in charge. That’s why were all kind of harsh laws and regulations.

 

[onesimplemind]

gurrato alaien:

Allah Almighty Said regarding innocent souls in the Noble Quran:

“But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)”

“Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)”

“On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)”

Allah Almighty also Commanded UNCOMPROMISED Justice:

“O ye who believe! Stand out firmly For justice, as witnesses To Allah, even as against Yourselves, or your parents, Or your kin, and whether It be (against) rich or poor: For Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (Of your hearts), lest ye Swerve, and if ye Distort (justice) or decline To do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted With all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:135)”

“And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. (The Noble Quran, 2:193)”

“But if at the time of division other relatives, or orphans or poor, are present, feed them out of the (property), and speak to them words of kindness and justice. (The Noble Quran, 4:8)”

“If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God. (The Noble Quran, 4:30)”

“God doth command you to render back your Trusts to those to whom they are due; And when ye judge between man and man, that ye judge with justice: Verily how excellent is the teaching which He giveth you! For God is He Who heareth and seeth all things. (The Noble Quran, 4:58)”

Peace.

For all the high and nobel things that Allah seems to say you forgot one very important qualifier.

In order to recieve any bit of justice, honor, mercy, respect, you have to convert to Islam.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

jimmy:

The difference is that in the bible it is recording history

when you see the truth you try to find justifications, aren’t you beleive in tha bible OT and NT,

jimmy:

but in the koran it says that you should kill all infidels and those who don’t accept the muslim faith.

that is not true I have showed many verses in quran prove that Islam is dealing with other kindly and peacefuly unless in case off selfdefence.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

onesimplemind:

For all the high and nobel things that Allah seems to say you forgot one very important qualifier.

In order to recieve any bit of justice, honor, mercy, respect, you have to convert to Islam.

Its rather in order to get the eternal life and salvation and avoid hell fire, you have to convert to Islam.

 

[onesimplemind]

gurrato alaien:

Its rather in order to get the eternal life and salvation and avoid hell fire, you have to convert to Islam.

And because those that don’t wish to turn to Islam are going to hell, might as well persecute them or outright kill them, they are just worthless hellbound creatures anyways, right?

Or maybe just give them some hell on earth so they can get used to eternal hell, right?

Thats what it sure seems like.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

onesimplemind:

And because those that don’t wish to turn to Islam are going to hell, might as well persecute them or outright kill them, they are just worthless hellbound creatures anyways, right?

Or maybe just give them some hell on earth so they can get used to eternal hell, right?

Thats what it sure seems like.

No according to quran there is no compulsion in religion, that is your choice nobody force you.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

gurrato alaien:

No according to quran there is no compulsion in religion, that is your choice nobody force you.

“No compulsion in religion” is a sham that Muhammad used to justify killing people who supposedly apostized after conquering them.

 

[udral]

jimmy:

The difference is that in the bible it is recording history but in the koran it says that you should kill all infidels and those who don’t accept the muslim faith.

What do you make of these:

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other:** do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.** Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. **If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. ** (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

And here’s another thing usually attributed to Muslims:

But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there **her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. ** Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Those are “commandments” in the alleged word of God telling people how to live and what to do, not just a recording of history.

If anything, this should encourage Christians to be more tolerant toward what’s in the Quran, because many of the same things are in their own Bible.

The difference is that Christians no longer take them seriously, while many Muslims still do.

 

[LilyM]

Yes but it’s a commandment of God telling the ISRAELITES how to live, we Christians follow the New Testament story where Christ saves the adulterous woman from stoning precisely to show the harshness of the old Law and that he was doing away with it.

Heck, even the Jews don’t stone non-virgins to death these days - least not any that I’ve heard of.

 

[udral]

LilyM:

Yes but it’s a commandment of God telling the ISRAELITES how to live, we Christians follow the New Testament story where Christ saves the adulterous woman from stoning precisely to show the harshness of the old Law and that he was doing away with it.
Heck, even the Jews don’t stone non-virgins to death these days - least not any that I’ve heard of.

It’s not as simple as that, Jesus does prevent the mob from stoning the woman, but he also says this:

Mark 7: 7 In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines human precepts.’ 8 You disregard God’s commandment but cling to human tradition."
9 He went on to say, "How well you have set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and 'Whoever curses father or mother shall die.’ 11 Yet you say, ‘If a person says to father or mother, “Any support you might have had from me is qorban”’ 4 (meaning, dedicated to God), 12 you allow him to do nothing more for his father or mother.

All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Matthew 5 17 "**Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. **
18 Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law,

In my opinion there are apparently contradictory views in the Bible becuase it was written by different authors with different opinions/beliefs.

And you are absolutely right, even the Jews for whom the OT is the Word don’t stone non-virgins. For this reasons we should not see Islam any differently. Muslims are behind us in cultural development, many are uneducated, illiterate, don’t have a whole lot to look forward to in terms of “wordly” comforts and are easily manipulated by people with an agenda. Do you really think those young men would have been burning embassies and killing people over cartoons if they had interesting jobs, prosperity etc. to look forward to and if they had not been indoctrinated into violence?

There are good Muslims who read the Quran the way you and the Jews read the Old Testament: they focus on the positive parts and ignore the violent parts. Most Westerners, regardless of their religion, tend to hold very humanist values of freedom of belief and conscience, tolerance, compassion, love, helping others, avoiding things that harm others, rebelling against authorities that harm people. Since we live in a very tolerant humanist society, it would be unthinkable for people to stone someone for not being a virgin on their wedding night. Most Western societies don’t even have the death penatly for serial killers and the like.

Maybe if our social situation was what it is in many Muslim nations now, we would have preachers with an agenda focusing on those quotes I posted above and justifying all sorts of evil and violence. You get a little bit of that with people like Pat Robertson, and who knows what goes on in little cults.

In the end good old human compassion beats any injustice in a religious text and leads to it either being ignored or interpreted away. I think if we help Muslims get rid of their despotic authorities, fix the economic situation in those countries, and give everyone there access to education you’ll find that those people will ignore the violence in the Quran, focus on the good parts, and in general be no different from Jews or Christians or other folk.

 

[George_Waters]

You know gurrato alaien, I was thinking yesterday about Islam and relations with other religions and everything kept coming back to one major problem; Islam wishes to dominate the world and are willing to use violence and force to do so.

Sure you believe it is because that is the will of God and I am sure that Christians several centuries ago would have had the same belief, however it is not right to kill people who believe differently than you. We should recognize that almighty God is the arbiter of justice, not man.

God Bless you all.