Is there actually a productive way to tactfully suggest improvements to matters surrounding the celebration of the Mass without being attacked/judged?

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Exegete

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Is there actually a productive way to tactfully suggest improvements to matters surrounding the celebration of the Mass without being attacked/judged as ironically being “judgemental” or ignorant by one’s pastor or bishop?

I suspect it ultimately boils down to the local pastor and bishop, but almost all attempts I have witnessed (be they from me or others) have been met with abject hostility and utter dismissal no matter how tactful and factful the approach taken.

The single exception I have seen is for large benefactors. They are listened to quite seriously.
 
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Are you looking for ways to bring things up to your pastor, or looking for ways to talk about it here on CAF?
 
Is it possible instead to simply locate another parish where you feel more aligned with the pastor?
 
Exegete said:
Is there actually a productive way to tactfully suggest improvements
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Are you confident that most people in your parish would agree with you that the changes you would like to see are “improvements”? You didn’t tell us what your proposed “improvements” are.
 
Bring your proposed changes to the Parish Council. That is what they are there for, to represent the parishioners.
 
BartholomewB said:
Are you confident that most people in your parish would agree with you that the changes you would like to see are “improvements”? You didn’t tell us what your proposed “improvements” are.
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That is a good question. “Most”? Absolutely – almost all. Very confident. “All”, no way.

I’m not going to mention any specifics. If I do, the specific will become the focus of this thread and my actual question won’t be addressed. If that causes some to then claim “we can’t answer your question because you gave no specifics”, so be it.
 
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TheLittleLady said:
Bring your proposed changes to the Parish Council. That is what they are there for, to represent the parishioners.
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My parish has not had a parish council since ~2005. We have a finance council that focuses strictly on budgets. That’s it. Very common in my diocese.
 
Exegete said:
I’m not going to mention any specifics. If I do, the specific will become the focus of this thread and my actual question won’t be addressed. If that causes some to then claim “we can’t answer your question because you gave no specifics”, so be it.
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I can certainly understand that as the thread most assuredly would get derailed. However, your approach is likely to differ depending on how many changes you are suggesting, how substantial they are, and how optional they are. Much also depends on your relationship with your pastor. Are you friends? Does he avoid you when he sees you approaching? 😜 (You don’t have to answer that here, just questions to ask yourself.)

For me, I would probably start in a conversational way. Maybe something like “I’ve heard of parishes that do X in their liturgies, and it seems like a great way to encourage Y. What do you think?”

Basically, I would avoid creating laundry lists that make it seem like you’ve got an axe to grind with the pastor.

I’d also start out very small. Just pick one or two things and see how it goes. Again, a laundry list is going to be overwhelming and pretty much ensure that it will be ignored. Much as with a thread here, people tend to be drawn to the most controversial bullet point and ignore the rest.

All this said, it’s still ultimately the pastor’s call as to what he will do in the liturgy. You can make suggestions—and those suggestions might even be good suggestions—but that doesn’t mean every suggestion you make will be enacted. You’ll have to be prepared for that.
 
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I should point out the experience that triggered my query was something that surrounds the celebration of the Mass – something to do with common courtesy, and not an actual liturgical change.

I honestly don’t know if he would avoid me if he saw me approaching? I can say for certain that I would avoid him if I saw him approaching, if I could do so without creating a scene.
 
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Don’t know how it is where you live. In my parish the pastors have weddings, funerals, Masses, hospital visits, calls and visits in the middle of the night from suicidal persons, meetings to run.
AND, they get opinions from everyone about tastes and preferences. In our parish the director of liturgy has the same problem. He gets compliments and complaints from all corners.

It is really irritating to pastors when they have truly pressing needs in the flock and someone complains about —youfillintheblank— that has nothing to do with the validity of the Mass but rather has to do with tastes or scrupulosity over details, music, and clothing.
So I don’t know what happens in you parish, but in ours the pastor will cordially invite you to join the choir, become an adult altar server, etc…
 
goout said:
It is really irritating to pastors when they have truly pressing needs in the flock and someone complains about —youfillintheblank— that has nothing to do with the validity of the Mass but rather has to do with tastes or scrupulosity over details, music, and clothing.
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I didn’t complain about anything. I asked if a change could be considered in the spirit of common courtesy? I’ve witnessed many others ask similar questions over a series of pastors and they have all been treated either rudely or their concerns dismissed – except for the large benefactors.

There is a helluva lot more to the Mass then if it has been validly celebrated! I have attended a number of Mass over the years that truly unfortunate displays, even though they were indeed valid.

I would never bring up a matter based on my personal preference. Not ever.

If any pastor or bishops finds a legitimate, tactfully asked question or suggestion from their flock to be “really irritating”, then they need to step down. They really do.

The “I’m too busy” excuse for not listening, not taking any action, and most of all not treating others with a modicum of respect is a non-starter. Sad it’s so often offered.
 
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My suggestion: make the suggestion in a way that doesn’t insult people in the other camp. Too often we say, “I prefer the traditional route because the more modern people aren’t reverent” or “I prefer the more modern look because traditional people are too rigid.” Don’t do that. Just say, “Personally, I like x or way. Could we maybe consider incorporating that into one of the Masses and see if other people feel the same way?” You can express your own tastes without insulting anyone else.

Not saying you personally did or do this, OP, I just see lots of people falling into that trap.
 
Good points…

I would never use words like “modern/traditional” (or particularly “modernist”, “traditionalist”, “liberal”, “conservative”) in a parish setting.
 
You mention “big benefactors” having influence. Well, I think the best way to have influence then is to be a big benefactor–not financially, but with your time. You’ll be listened to and valued more if you help out a lot at the parish.

That’s just how humans work. Helping out lets the pastor know you’re committed to the parish to some degree, not just a rogue complainer.

There’s also the practical reality that if you’re the one who does a certain job, you get a lot of say in how that job gets done.
 
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chessnerd321 said:
but with your time. You’ll be listened to and valued more if you help out a lot at the parish.
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Not really around here. From the ambo, we are told we must be involved in our parish! Actually getting involved is something quite different. The number of “turf protectors” is obscene at my parish. People try to get involved, most as discouraged from doing so or they are otherwise treated poorly and they just fade away.
 
Exegete said:
Actually getting involved is something quite different. The number of “turf protectors” is obscene at my parish.
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Well if that’s the case I have a couple comments.
  1. I suspect those people are getting what they want, so I still stand behind my original statement.
  2. That’s actually a very difficult issue for the priest. He might have some things we would like to change himself. It’s not an easy situation.
  3. Have you tried personally, or you just heard about it? People have a tendency to justify why they quit doing something, sometimes coming up with the reason they did after they’ve done it.
 
To be fair, a lot of people make suggestions in a less than tactful manner. And I think we see an over-representation on the forum from people whose encounters go poorly.

But certainly all of us, including priests, should be open to suggestions.
 
chessnerd321 said:
Well if that’s the case I have a couple comments.
  1. I suspect those people are getting what they want, so I still stand behind my original statement.
  2. That’s actually a very difficult issue for the priest. He might have some things we would like to change himself. It’s not an easy situation.
  3. Have you tried personally, or you just heard about it? People have a tendency to justify why they quit doing something, sometimes coming up with the reason they did after they’ve done it.
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  1. Not really – other than their #1 (by far) goal – they do hang on and they do continue to influence their tiny patch of turf.
  2. I would agree there. It largely comes down to having the resolve to do the right thing and then making the hands-on effort.
  3. I have been deeply involved in my parish in the past. The effort the actual ministries required was dwarfed by the time wasted in dealing with parish politics that surrounded each one.
 
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