Is there an Eastern 'baptism of desire' doctrine?

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Do the Eastern Catholics / Eastern Orthodox have the doctrine of ‘baptism of desire’?

I was debating with an Eastern Orthodox a few days ago about salvation and he assured me that only those baptised in the church could be saved, and those martyred for Christ (‘baptism of blood’), but when I mentioned ‘baptism of desire’, he said it was a Western concept, developed much later.

Is it just Western? Do the Eastern folks believe that those who were not baptised cannot be saved, even catechumens dying of natural causes while awaiting baptism?

What is the earliest mention of ‘baptism of desire’ and is it Western? Are there any Church Fathers before the Schism that would mention something like this as possible?

Links, please!

Thank you so much! 🙂
 
Eastern Catholics are required to give at least nominal assent to catechumens being joined to the church already by their desire to join.

It’s in magisterially promulgated catechisms, which while not dogma, elucidate the doctrine.
 
Here is a quote from a book entitled Orthodox Spirituality published by St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press:

"Baptismal grace is not limited to the external ministration of the sacrament of Baptism. Our Lord invisibly grants that grace to souls of good will who, consciously or even unconsciously, are longing for the Water of Life. This has been called “baptism of desire.” A heathen or an atheist may receive it. He may long for, and indeed possess, the reality of God without having a name for it, or even while rejecting the name which he does not feel able to associate with the reality. A man who, without being baptized with water, sacrifices his life as a witness to the Lord receives “baptism of blood.” (pg. 43)
 
BTW, the book was published in 1978, so I guess that teaching of “Baptism of desire” has been around for a while in Eastern Orthodoxy.

Blessings
 
Litcrit said:
Do the Eastern Catholics / Eastern Orthodox have the doctrine of ‘baptism of desire’?

I was debating with an Eastern Orthodox a few days ago about salvation and he assured me that only those baptised in the church could be saved, and those martyred for Christ (‘baptism of blood’), but when I mentioned ‘baptism of desire’, he said it was a Western concept, developed much later.

Is it just Western? Do the Eastern folks believe that those who were not baptised cannot be saved, even catechumens dying of natural causes while awaiting baptism?

What is the earliest mention of ‘baptism of desire’ and is it Western? Are there any Church Fathers before the Schism that would mention something like this as possible?

Links, please!

Thank you so much! 🙂
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Wow good topic! This is a point of terminology I’ve never heard before (I had to google it) You know this is something I’ve always believed. But I chalked it up to some of my leftover Evangelical sentiments. I’m glad Catholics have a doctrine of it. Although the idea that God being Omniscient and just, judges the person by the intention of the heart should not be controversial.
 
Litcrit said:
Do the Eastern Catholics / Eastern Orthodox have the doctrine of ‘baptism of desire’?

I was debating with an Eastern Orthodox a few days ago about salvation and he assured me that only those baptised in the church could be saved, and those martyred for Christ (‘baptism of blood’), but when I mentioned ‘baptism of desire’, he said it was a Western concept, developed much later.

Is it just Western? Do the Eastern folks believe that those who were not baptised cannot be saved, even catechumens dying of natural causes while awaiting baptism?

What is the earliest mention of ‘baptism of desire’ and is it Western? Are there any Church Fathers before the Schism that would mention something like this as possible?

Links, please!

Thank you so much! 🙂
Click to expand...
Wiki says that EO believes in it

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_of_desire

While I know folks will say “Wiki isn’t an official source etc”. I have found they are usually accurate (given a few occasions when pranksters write crank entries or idealogues write obviously biased articles).
 
mardukm said:
Here is a quote from a book entitled Orthodox Spirituality published by St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press:

"Baptismal grace is not limited to the external ministration of the sacrament of Baptism. Our Lord invisibly grants that grace to souls of good will who, consciously or even unconsciously, are longing for the Water of Life. This has been called “baptism of desire.” A heathen or an atheist may receive it. He may long for, and indeed possess, the reality of God without having a name for it, or even while rejecting the name which he does not feel able to associate with the reality. A man who, without being baptized with water, sacrifices his life as a witness to the Lord receives “baptism of blood.” (pg. 43)
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There are more than on books called Orthodox Spirituality in the SVS Press catalogue. Do you happen to remember who authored to one you are quoting?
 
Zabdi_Premjit said:
There are more than on books called Orthodox Spirituality in the SVS Press catalogue. Do you happen to remember who authored to one you are quoting?
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The author is given as “A monk of the Eastern Church” or “Le moine de l’Eglise Orientale.” Remember also the publishing date I gave earlier, which might help you locate it. I believe it is on its second edition, published in 1998 or 1996.

I just think it is fascinating (more - a blessing) how one is able to find a lot more similarities between the Eastern and Western Church if one really looks, despite the claims of the naysayers.

This topic is being discussed right now in the OrthodoxChristianity.net website in the Orthodox-Catholic Forum, and it is interesting that what is being said there is a lot different from what was stated by several EO here when this Forum was still called the “Eastern Christianity Forum” way back when.

Blessings,
Marduk
 
My patron saint is St. Adrian. St. Adrian & Natalia are big saints in the Orthodox Church. But read their lives, St. Adrian was never baptized! He was a Roman soldier who was ordered to kill Christians. He disobeyed the order and said that he’d rather die with Christians. And die he did. He never had a chance to get baptized.
 
JohnVIII said:
My patron saint is St. Adrian. St. Adrian & Natalia are big saints in the Orthodox Church. But read their lives, St. Adrian was never baptized! He was a Roman soldier who was ordered to kill Christians. He disobeyed the order and said that he’d rather die with Christians. And die he did. He never had a chance to get baptized.
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Thankfully for the development of doctrine that is baptism by blood.
 
JohnVIII said:
My patron saint is St. Adrian. St. Adrian & Natalia are big saints in the Orthodox Church. But read their lives, St. Adrian was never baptized! He was a Roman soldier who was ordered to kill Christians. He disobeyed the order and said that he’d rather die with Christians. And die he did. He never had a chance to get baptized.
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The person I debated with accepts ‘baptism by blood’ as an exception to the rule, but not ‘baptism of desire’.

When I mentioned the murderer on the cross, he stated that was also baptism by blood - although the guy was executed for his crime, and not a martyr for Christ.
 
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