Is there any difference between a Protestant and a dissident Catholic who obstinately rejects Church authority?

[Dakota_Roberts]

Is there any difference between a Protestant and a dissident Catholic who obstinately rejects key doctrines of faith and morals of the Church such as on abortion and marriage and who obstinately rejects the authority of the Pope and the Magisterium?

I don’t mean to offend any Protestants with this comparison.

Yes, one is definitively a heretic and the other isn’t necessarily a heretic.

 

[RyanBlack]

True. I was imprecise; I was referring to the dissident, obstinate Catholic referred to in the original post.

I thought that was the case. I made the clarification for the sake of those who might not know the difference.

 

[JohnVIII]

Is there any difference between a Protestant and a dissident Catholic who obstinately rejects key doctrines of faith and morals of the Church such as on abortion and marriage and who obstinately rejects the authority of the Pope and the Magisterium?

I don’t mean to offend any Protestants with this comparison.

Assumption #1: The universal authority of the Pope and the Magisterium is never the less restricted to only matters of faith and morals.

If assumption #1 is true than how is this authority any different in essence from the authority of the law of Moses for those under that law in the Old Covenant? The answer becomes …

Assumption #2: The authority of the Pope and the Magisterium (in the New Covenant) is the same in essence to the authority of Moses (in the Old Covenant).

If assumption #2 is true then what was the purpose of the Cross which freed us from the power of the law so that we could be reconciled to God, but then only re-established a new law that is no different in essence from the old law excepting only that the authority is taken from Moses and transferred to the Pope and the Magisterium? Wouldn’t that put us right back under the curse of the law and sin and separation from God? Did the Cross free us from sin or reaffirm our sin only under a different administrative authority?

If the authority to administer (spiritual) life or death via the law (aka matters of faith and morals) is universal held by the Pope and the Magisterium meaning that not even the power of the Cross can free us from the power of the law that comes from this universal authority, then there is no difference between a Protestant and a Catholic or anyone or anything that falls under this universal authority; all alike are at the mercy of this authority.

Is this what you believe to be true?

 

[Monergistic]

Is there any difference between a Protestant and a dissident Catholic who obstinately rejects key doctrines of faith and morals of the Church such as on abortion and marriage and who obstinately rejects the authority of the Pope and the Magisterium?

I don’t mean to offend any Protestants with this comparison.

Well, if you want to go with Any difference- this sort of Catholic can generally continue to participate in the sacramental life of the Church. Unless such a person has been excommunicated, in which case you might as well call him another Martin Luther, know what I’m saying? Seriously though, if they haven’t been excommunicated (yet?), participation in the sacramental life is no small thing.

Also. Theoretically. If there were enough of these people, they could maybe serve as a reminder that orthodoxy is sometimes more than a top-down thing, and Church teaching really only becomes Church teaching if it is widely confirmed by the belief and assent of the laity as a whole. This is a slightly more Eastern way of thinking about orthodoxy, but in theory the laity as a whole could sort of force the Magisterium to play a development card of some kind.

But mostly the sacramental grace thing. Surely no one is going to suggest that access to the Church’s primary instruments of grace is of no real consequence? Again with Luther- what if he’d never been excommunicated? What if he and Calvin and Zwingli all continued to participate in the sacramental life of the Church? It’s hard to say exactly what would have resulted, but we would all remember them differently, that’s for sure.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Is there any difference between a Protestant and a dissident Catholic who obstinately rejects key doctrines of faith and morals of the Church such as on abortion and marriage and who obstinately rejects the authority of the Pope and the Magisterium?

I don’t mean to offend any Protestants with this comparison.

Well a Catholic who rejects the teachings of the Magisterium is acting in total defiance of his faith. A Protestant is a person who (for the most part) was born outside Catholicism, and therefore is not in defiance of the Catholic faith, but separated from it.

 

[EIF5A]

I’m not Catholic, but I read somewhere about personal conscience. What if your personal conscience tells you something different about a particular subject that’s not explicitly stated in Scripture?

Is the Magisterium also deemed to be infallible?

 

[livingwordunity]

Well a Catholic who rejects the teachings of the Magisterium is acting in total defiance of his faith. A Protestant is a person who (for the most part) was born outside Catholicism, and therefore is not in defiance of the Catholic faith, but separated from it.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I’m not Catholic, but I read somewhere about personal conscience. What if your personal conscience tells you something different about a particular subject that’s not explicitly stated in Scripture?

Is the Magisterium also deemed to be infallible?

The key words are “well-formed conscience.” That means that if we find ourselves disagreeing with the infallible teachings of the Church, we must carefully examine our consciences to find out OUR mistakes, not that the Church is mistaken. Chances are, that we do not correctly understand or cannot acquiesce to the authority of the Church. We as Catholic Christians are not to operate under our own very fallible “personal conscience.” We are too prone to error.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The key words are “well-formed conscience.” That means that if we find ourselves disagreeing with the infallible teachings of the Church, we must carefully examine our consciences to find out OUR mistakes, not that the Church is mistaken. Chances are, that we do not correctly understand or cannot acquiesce to the authority of the Church. We as Catholic Christians are not to operate under our own very fallible “personal conscience.” We are too prone to error.

Two well formed consciences may not align with each other, due to differences of intellect, knowledge, wisdom, guidance, piety, strength of faith, or fear of the Lord. I believe that’s the reason for judge not, lest you be judged.

We are obligated to act on our faith formed consciences. We even have authority to submit to, for instruction. Remember the formula of fraternal correction? One on one, then take two witnesses, and finally take them to the CHURCH.