Is there any possible position higher than Queen of Heaven?

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TheNeutral said:
Mary is a created, mortal human. I could understand if she was “God the Mother” (which doesn’t exist and is blasphemous btw), but she is simply the physical mother of Jesus Christ; Mary was an instrument to birth Jesus via the conventional means established by him (or his Father).
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Really? You think God is that crass? You think God used Mary and then discarded her?
To somehow pivot that and hype her as “The Mother of God” as though she has now somehow ascended beyond her created, human status is preposterous…
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Are you denying that Jesus is God?

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Or do you simply reject the Bible?
 
Okay, I accept that, but stand by the rest of what I said.

As Jesus wasn’t impressed regarding the apostles asking who would have highest place, and blocked their discussion, why are we worrying about it?
Any truly holy, humble person wouldn’t care less at their status in heaven, each place has it’s own completeness and fullness. There will be total acceptance and gratitude to be in heaven in the place prepared for each. Well, I may be the only one who sees the discussion as astonishing and disturbing. The title of the discussion disturbs me, let alone discussing who might have higher status than the most beautiful humble-hearted Mother.
If the highest will be the most truly humble, as Jesus said, they themselves would have no concern regarding ‘high status’. How does it matter? Anyway this makes me the ugly fly in the middle of the discussion
I really don’t care if this draws anyone down on my head like a ton of bricks. I only wish I had the words to convey the response to this question as should be, I’ve been trying but haven’t been able to put into words clearly enough.
 
JoshuaIsLord said:
…Most versions do not use the feminine. …
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Haydock Commentary Gen 3:15
Ver. 15. She shall crush. Ipsa, the woman: so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz. the seed. The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent’s head. (Challoner)

- The Hebrew text, as Bellarmine observes, is ambiguous: He mentions one copy which had ipsa instead of ipsum; and so it is even printed in the Hebrew interlineary edition, 1572, by Plantin, under the inspection of Boderianus. Whether the Jewish editions ought to have more weight with Christians, or whether all the other manuscripts conspire against this reading, let others inquire. The fathers who have cited the old Italic version, taken from the Septuagint agree with the Vulgate, which is followed by almost all the Latins; and hence we may argue with probability, that the Septuagint and the Hebrew formerly acknowledged ipsa, which now moves the indignation of Protestants so much, as if we intended by it to give any divine honour to the blessed Virgin Mary. We believe, however, with St. Epiphanius, that “it is no less criminal to vilify the holy Virgin, than to glorify her above measure.” We know that all the power of the mother of God is derived from the merits of her Son. We are no otherwise concerned about the retaining of ipsa, she, in this place, than in as much as we have yet no certain reason to suspect its being genuine. As some words have been corrected in the Vulgate since the Council of Trent by Pope Sixtus V. and others, by Pope Clement VIII. so, if, upon stricter search, it be found that it, and not she, is the true reading, we shall not hesitate to admit the correction: but we must wait in the mean time respectfully, till our superiors determine. (Haydock) Kemnitzius certainly advanced a step too far, when he said that all the ancient fathers read ipsum. Victor, Avitus, St. Augustine, St. Gregory, &c. mentioned in the Douay Bible, will convict him of falsehood. Christ crushed the serpent’s head by his death, suffering himself to be wounded in the heel. His blessed mother crushed him likewise, by her co-operation in the mystery of the Incarnation; and by rejecting, with horror, the very first suggestions of the enemy, to commit even the smallest sin. (St. Bernard, ser. 2, on Missus est.) “We crush,” says St. Gregory, Mor. 1. 38, “the serpent’s head, when we extirpate from our heart the beginnings of temptation, and then he lays snares for our heel, because he opposes the end of a good action with greater craft and power.” The serpent may hiss and threaten; he cannot hurt, if we resist him. (Haydock)
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JoshuaIsLord said:
Most versions do not use the feminine.

Jewish Publication Society : Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; they shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise their heel.’

YLT : Gen 3:15 and enmity I put between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; he doth bruise thee—the head, and thou dost bruise him—the heel.’

KJV+ : Gen 3:15 And I will putH7896 enmityH342 betweenH996 thee and the woman,H802 and betweenH996 thy seedH2233 and her seed;H2233 itH1931 shall bruiseH7779 thy head,H7218 and thouH859 shalt bruiseH7779 his heel.H6119

Now if you take out the extra words? Word for Word translation. As you can see their is a lot of liberty taken.
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AD DIEM ILLUM LAETISSIMUM

ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS X
ON THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION
TO THE PATRIARCHS, PRIMATES, ARCHBISHOPS,
BISHOPS, AND OTHER ORDINARIES
IN PEACE AND COMMUNION WITH THE APOSTOLIC SEE

But neither will the Virgin ever cease to succor us in our trials, however grave they be, and to carry on the fight fought by her since her conception, so that every day we may repeat: “To-day the head of the serpent of old was crushed by her” (Office Immac. Con., 11. Vespers, Magnif.).
 
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Trishie said:
. Well, I may be the only one who sees the discussion as astonishing and disturbing.
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It’s an important teaching of the Church.

Council of Florence (1439) declared the souls of the perfectly just clearly behold the Triune and One God as he is, but corresponding to the difference of their merits, the one more perfectly than the other. The Council of Trent defined that the justified person merits an increase of the heavenly glory by good works. (Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, 479)
 
They are still stained with Original Sin, from their conception. There is no doctrine revealed by God about their fate as all we know is that Baptism is required for salvation. For the unbaptized, born or unborn, we entrust them to the Mercy and Justice of God.
 
TheNeutral said:
How can Mary still be the Mother of God
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Mary is the Mother of God. That is a fact and cannot be changed because some ‘roles pass away.’
TheNeutral said:
if we’re “like the angels” in Heaven though? I thought those roles passed away.
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Being an angel and being a human are not roles we take on. They are what we are created to be.

We may be “like” angels while in Heaven in some ways, most especially in that most of us there are/will be only spirits, for a time. This state is permanent for angels but that is not so for us. As spirits-only in Heaven we will be incomplete - we will be reunited with our resurrected physical bodies at the Last Coming - only then will we return to our intended state of being: body and spirit. Mary is already united with her body in Heaven…so is Jesus.
 
De_Maria said:
You think God used Mary and then discarded her?
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(I’m not disagreeing with de-maria)
God doesn’t use any of us and then discard us. Our place in Heaven will be where we will be, according to the awesome Will of God.

By the time we get to Heaven, thanks to God, we will all have been purified of petty things like spiritual envy.
 
An important teaching of the Church that we need to know if there is someone higher than Mary?
We know that God is above all, higher than any created person or thing, and we know the teachings of the Church regarding Mary, but this thread seems to be seeking whether there is someone between Mary and God, but why we are asking, If the Bible has nothing to say about who is or that anyone has status between god and our holy Mother?
If God saw any need or benefit for us to know if such being did exist, He would have told us. If He hasn’t, why is it our concern, if God didn’t need us to know, are we just wasting our time and distractiing ourselves from questions that do matter and do bring us and others closer to God?
 
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What benefit did God have for us to put someone impossibly above us? How does it benefit me that I am “inferior” to Mary?

Also: To those saying “So you’re saying Jesus isn’t God…” Nice way to dismiss my statements. Honestly, the question is silly; Of course I believe that Jesus is God. I believe all three of them are, however he’s almost always referred to as “Jesus (Christ”, not “God”. The title “God” is often used to refer to his Father. With this in mind, when one says Mary is the “Mother of God”, yes, it could, in a sense, be technically correct, but what it sounds like in light of current associations for these words is that Mary is, in fact, being exalted as the “Mother of the Father”. The name is very deceitful in nature and is quite prone to misleading those who have anything less than a full knowledge of it’s “true” meaning. Why not just call her the “Mother of the Son”, or the “Mother of Jesus”? Does that not sound powerful enough for your liking? That is my problem with the name; Through misconception, it exalts Mary to a position (even if unintentionally) which she shouldn’t (and couldn’t) ever be in.
 
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TheNeutral said:
Also: To those saying “So you’re saying Jesus isn’t God…” Nice way to dismiss my statements. Honestly, the question is silly; Of course I believe that Jesus is God. I believe all three of them are, however he’s almost always referred to as “Jesus (Christ”, not “God”. The title “God” is often used to refer to his Father. With this in mind, when one says Mary is the “Mother of God”, yes, it could, in a sense, be technically correct, but what it sounds like in light of current associations for these words is that Mary is, in fact, being exalted as the “Mother of the Father”. The name is very deceitful in nature and is quite prone to misleading those who have anything less than a full knowledge of it’s “true” meaning. Why not just call her the “Mother of the Son”, or the “Mother of Jesus”? Does that not sound powerful enough for your liking? That is my problem with the name; Through misconception, it exalts Mary to a position (even if unintentionally) which she shouldn’t (and couldn’t) ever be in.
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Because we don’t separate Jesus humanity and His Divinity. Jesus is one Person. God and man.

For example, do you say, “My mother gave birth to my body, not my spirit. Therefore, she is only the mother of my body.” Of course not. Even though God put the spirit in your body while you were still in the womb, she is still your mother, body and soul.
 
TheNeutral said:
What benefit did God have for us to put someone impossibly above us? How does it benefit me that I am “inferior” to Mary?
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If the fact that it is unattainable makes it a bad thing to strive for, why did Jesus say:

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

And elsewhere, why does Scripture say:

1 Peter 1:16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
 
Mary is higher than them.

Unlike Paul, Enoch, and Elijah, Marry had an immaculate conception. She was born without original sin, and went through her entire time on Earth without ever committing a sin. She gave birth to the Son of God while a celibate virgin, and had to watch her son get tortured to death. And unlike Michael the Archangel, Mary managed to do all these things despite being a human being and facing all the temptations of Earth - as far as we can tell Michael was only tempted a single time in his life (when Satan rebelled against God and tried to rally the angels to join).

Having said all this, there is one person who is higher even than her: the King of Heaven. Mary is still lower than God.
 
Seems like a trick question of sorts. The Blessed Virgin Mary was the mother of Jesus Christ and her selection was by Christians believed to be divine. Therefore, The Lord set her apart on Earth, with the riches of who he made her to be, whom all love her for. Her strength of letting her son go and do what he must have done is agonizing. We know that she was chosen and The Lord foresaw her abilities before they were recorded in the Gospel. Her love to many is beyond recognizing a title.
 
Not quite. We are only souls until the Second Coming. Once that has occurred, we are souls and bodies both for eternity
 
Yes, but (correct me if I’m wrong) you forgot the ‘body’ part.
 
stpurl said:
Yes, but (correct me if I’m wrong) you forgot the ‘body’ part.
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They have spirit bodies in the spirit world.

In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. 24He called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.
 
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