Is there anyone else here who rarely receives consolations?

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I’ve noticed through my past few years of belief that I rarely feel “on fire for the Lord”, I rarely sense God’s presence, my prayers are dry, receive consolations, and so on. These periods can last several years with only short breaks in between — and we’re talking a few days max, except for a couple weeks once, and a straight up experience of infused contemplation on and off for a month or two. I rarely feel Christian. I can’t force these things either, it seems I’m called to a via negativa path. I know there are saints who have experienced these things, but I want to know if it’s more common than that. It’s not for a lack of zeal or desire, this I know. I consider myself pretty religiously obsessed. It’s just that all those sensible things that it’s up to God to grant are missing. I should probably add that I experience more suffering than the average person as well. I’m on the tail end of about a years worth of extreme and hellish depression. But even before the depression I still didn’t receive these things. Pre-baptism, post-baptism, confirmed, first communion, nothing except those few short breaks. God also seems to answer my prayers less as well. I figure this could be one of those Dark Nights, but that would mean that I’m already in the Night of the Soul, seeing as I experienced infused contemplation. But I don’t really think I’m holy enough for that. But what else would explain several mystical experiences punctuating these things?
 
Tovarisch: I have never felt this in my life. Most of us don’t.
The way I see it is: faith is an act of the will more than anything else, and God is better pleased with us when we exert our will without any “help”.
Blessed are those who have not seen, but still believe. 👍
I will pray for you 🙂
 
I know your experience well. The desert is always more painful after leaving the oasis. It seems even lonelier after you have experienced even a little sweetness because now you know what is missing.

The best advice I can give you is to accept everything. I wouldn’t get caught in the analysis paralysis which can result from this dryness, always trying to manipulate your behavior to win you some refreshment, Or always feeling if you could only be better that you might not feel this way. It is completely out of your control. Your soul is in God’s hands, everything, from what you feel to what you don’t feel.

I really do feel for you. I know how painful the desert can be, each moment feeling as though you can’t do this anymore. There is only this one moment to mourn, only this one moment to trust, only this one moment.

Fight the temptation to wonder how long this will last. Fight the temptation to wonder if you will ever feel consolation again. Just surrender. It is what it is, and God is in control, not you.
 
WoundedIcon said:
I’ve noticed through my past few years of belief that I rarely feel “on fire for the Lord”, I rarely sense God’s presence, my prayers are dry, receive consolations, and so on. These periods can last several years with only short breaks in between — and we’re talking a few days max, except for a couple weeks once, and a straight up experience of infused contemplation on and off for a month or two. I rarely feel Christian. I can’t force these things either, it seems I’m called to a via negativa path. I know there are saints who have experienced these things, but I want to know if it’s more common than that. It’s not for a lack of zeal or desire, this I know. I consider myself pretty religiously obsessed. It’s just that all those sensible things that it’s up to God to grant are missing. I should probably add that I experience more suffering than the average person as well. I’m on the tail end of about a years worth of extreme and hellish depression. But even before the depression I still didn’t receive these things. Pre-baptism, post-baptism, confirmed, first communion, nothing except those few short breaks. God also seems to answer my prayers less as well. I figure this could be one of those Dark Nights, but that would mean that I’m already in the Night of the Soul, seeing as I experienced infused contemplation. But I don’t really think I’m holy enough for that. But what else would explain several mystical experiences punctuating these things?
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Hi,

You know, I received a sermon on this subject a while back from my priest, and he gave a very, very interesting take on the soul.

Apparently, God gives us this “consolation” in times that we really need it to move forward; it is a form of actual grace; but eventually he takes it away and has us walk on our own feet.

It’s like riding a bike with training wheels: you learn how to pedal and steer, and it’s all fun and games with no danger, but as soon as you take those wheels off, it becomes slightly dangerous and you really need to focus on staying on top.

A lack of consolations doesn’t mean God isn’t there. It just means he is letting you walk on your own feet, and at this time you can obtain even greater graces by continuing to be a holy person.

God bless!
 
I used to cry every time I attended Mass, and that was a consolation of sorts, but I was often embarrassed by doing such. 🤷 Not seeing it for the gift it was?
Now, it is rare that I feel anything, but leaning toward a scrupulous nature, I am not sure that, for me, it is because I am not in a state of grace.
But ‘dry spells’ I know, are good. The analogy of the bike with training wheels is excellent.

I find it very difficult to stay on the right course if I am not getting consolations. Very difficult. I tend to do things to make me feel better temporarily, though those things often make me feel worse in the long run.
That you can stay the course based on reason, rather than the ‘warm fuzzy’ feeling that one can get from the consolations is very admirable, and something I am sure many of us would like to achieve.
I know I would.

littlechicken
 
You say you don’t “feel” Christian.

I’m interested in hearing you expand on that. Do you feel like you don’t produce fruit of the spirit? That you fall short of your own expectations for religious or charitable activities?

Tell me what you think it would “feel” like to have the heart and mind of Christ. What would it look like when you look on things. Would you be anxious and angry, or even though you are viewing things that are objectively evil you would be at perfect peace?

Or are you talking more about your prayer life? As far as Dark Night, I don’t think we should rule that out. But never make the mistake that you are “not holy enough” for the Dark Night. Saul was totally unholy, but He was good enough for God to give him a Dark Night that lasted three days in Acts 9. He was blinded for three days and had to be led around. If we are blinded to our own hope through depression, we must believe in the Holy Spirit to lead us through safely, and He works through all of us who are able to help – even online IMO. I think it has to do with our capacity to process human drama and passion. Passion of all types brings us closer in mind and heart, to Jesus, as we see him suffer with dignity knowing there was a greater glory to come. God wants us to be hot or cold. You can get warm from hot and cold, but you can’t get hot or cold from warm. God spits the lukewarm from his mouth … would that be people who are “average” in every way? 😃 j/k I know it’s not that. :rolleyes:

Alan
 
AlanFromWichita said:
You say you don’t “feel” Christian.

I’m interested in hearing you expand on that. Do you feel like you don’t produce fruit of the spirit? That you fall short of your own expectations for religious or charitable activities?

Tell me what you think it would “feel” like to have the heart and mind of Christ. What would it look like when you look on things. Would you be anxious and angry, or even though you are viewing things that are objectively evil you would be at perfect peace?

Or are you talking more about your prayer life? As far as Dark Night, I don’t think we should rule that out. But never make the mistake that you are “not holy enough” for the Dark Night. Saul was totally unholy, but He was good enough for God to give him a Dark Night that lasted three days in Acts 9. He was blinded for three days and had to be led around. If we are blinded to our own hope through depression, we must believe in the Holy Spirit to lead us through safely, and He works through all of us who are able to help – even online IMO. I think it has to do with our capacity to process human drama and passion. Passion of all types brings us closer in mind and heart, to Jesus, as we see him suffer with dignity knowing there was a greater glory to come. God wants us to be hot or cold. You can get warm from hot and cold, but you can’t get hot or cold from warm. God spits the lukewarm from his mouth … would that be people who are “average” in every way? 😃 j/k I know it’s not that. :rolleyes:

Alan
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Hi,

I assume you are talking about the “dark night of the senses” and “dark night of the spirit”; could you explain these to the OP? I’m not sure they understand.
 
dshix said:
Hi,

I assume you are talking about the “dark night of the senses” and “dark night of the spirit”; could you explain these to the OP? I’m not sure they understand.
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Maybe not. At least the OP has heard of it, but I’ve heard “Dark Night” used as a generic term for feeling distant from God. So I’ll comment a little more where I’m coming from using the term.

As far as the difference between “sense” and “spirit,” I’ve done them both but I’m not a scholar on it so I can’t separate out what was what. I don’t think you necessarily “do one” and then “move on.” I think it can be iterative or even concurrent, but like I said I’m not a scholar. Like most books, I read the first part of Dark Night of the Soul, then blew off the rest. So I speak from personal experience, which often matches what people quote from authoritative sources, but I don’t claim I’m “right” about any of my terminology; just the nature of my experiences and the conclusions I’ve drawn from them.
WoundedIcon said:
I figure this could be one of those Dark Nights, but that would mean that I’m already in the Night of the Soul, seeing as I experienced infused contemplation. But I don’t really think I’m holy enough for that. But what else would explain several mystical experiences punctuating these things?
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Can you talk about the infused contemplation? Did it change you or your outlook in some way?

When I think of Dark Night of the Soul, it has all sorts of flavors, from ones that are easy to ones that are scary and challenging, including a sensation of separation you are describing. For me, it was coupled with a psychosis that lasted about as long, but that’s just me. But my own experience is my starting point for trying to empathize with others’ experiences, which are always totally different. Dark Nights are as unique as snowflakes, I’d guess. Seems to me spiritual directors aren’t really interested in trying to “measure” where we are in the Dark Night process, because all they need to do is keep you pointed the right direction. Too much emphasis on where are we can lead to analysis paralysis. Once you start experiencing fruit of the spirit, tasting and seeing the goodness, and keep focused on the things of the kingdom, everything else will work out.

Also about these mystical experiences, are they like dreams you can witness but not control, or are they more like states of mind where you can try thinking things in that state of mind. For example, if you have a mystical experience you like, or if you remember one, what was it that you liked about it? Did it bring you peace? Faith assurance? If you have another one, can you think, on purpose, what it is that makes it better then, than when you’re not having one?

Seems to me when it comes to spiritual things, I think good questions can be at least as valuable as good answers.

Alan
 
When I first converted to Catholicism, God gave me many wonderful consolations. I had such an awesome fire for the faith. However as time passed, these grew less and less. Now I do rarely get them but when they come, I am immensely grateful. I guess my point is that sometimes God changes things a bit so that we can grow. He is like a Father who gives us gifts- but only when we need it.
 
latingirl said:
When I first converted to Catholicism, God gave me many wonderful consolations. I had such an awesome fire for the faith. However as time passed, these grew less and less. Now I do rarely get them but when they come, I am immensely grateful. I guess my point is that sometimes God changes things a bit so that we can grow. He is like a Father who gives us gifts- but only when we need it.
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Have you noticed, though, an overall better quality of life as you mature in your faith? To partially make up for the lack of consolations?
 
Once upon a time there were consolations which flooded my soul with His presence. Now they are but a distant memory, though the memory of them says that without reservation the divine love of God is more real, and more true and more good and far beyond anything of this world and far beyond what any words could ever describe.

In a few years the valley of the shadow of death was before me, and the learning of this painful journey of faith and of trust. So this is the way it is for children who are weaned and must learn to walk through this vale of sorrow and tears.

After a very, very, long and wayward journey, He visited me with His peace that ever abides, except when I look the other way. Never for too long, for it surely would be the death of me all over. Yet, there is this longing to be closer to the One who once nursed me with such divine love, but my own selfish, stubborn, obstinate will after all these years is still like a wall between my soul and my Beloved.

Wait on the Lord: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the Lord. (Psalm 27:14 KJV)

God’s peace be with you

micah
 
The infused contemplation? It was like everything was more real, I was much more perceptive and tuned into the beauty and order all around me. It was almost like everything was suffused with light, but not of a visible sort. I was full of joy and peace, my every action became a prayer, I could find God in anything, my mind was able to tie some theological threads together before even learning about them in a text book. Infused knowledge is what they would call that, I guess. I figured out the fact that God lives in an eternal present, and that he is absolutely simple, before I even studied it.

Also, when I was confirmed I felt power come from the priest’s hand as he held it above me. After I took communion I could sense Jesus’ face intellectually, as though he was watching me. I had a vision once that told me I’d make it to Heaven, and be a Franciscan, before I even considered becoming Catholic. I had a few other experiences where some joy would well up within me and a former head knowledge belief would suddenly strike me intuitively. And then there’s my current infirmity, which struck me shortly after praying to be a victim soul. That was about the time I went dry again and my prayers got answered less and such.

From the descriptions I’ve read of the night of faith (the night of the soul, not senses) this seems to match. I don’t think I could have experienced the contemplative prayer without having somehow already gone through a sense night. That’s generally the outline in Latin mystical theology.
 
WoundedIcon said:
The infused contemplation? It was like everything was more real, I was much more perceptive and tuned into the beauty and order all around me. It was almost like everything was suffused with light, but not of a visible sort. I was full of joy and peace, my every action became a prayer, I could find God in anything, my mind was able to tie some theological threads together before even learning about them in a text book. Infused knowledge is what they would call that, I guess. I figured out the fact that God lives in an eternal present, and that he is absolutely simple, before I even studied it.

Also, when I was confirmed I felt power come from the priest’s hand as he held it above me. After I took communion I could sense Jesus’ face intellectually, as though he was watching me. I had a vision once that told me I’d make it to Heaven, and be a Franciscan, before I even considered becoming Catholic. I had a few other experiences where some joy would well up within me and a former head knowledge belief would suddenly strike me intuitively. And then there’s my current infirmity, which struck me shortly after praying to be a victim soul. That was about the time I went dry again and my prayers got answered less and such.

From the descriptions I’ve read of the night of faith (the night of the soul, not senses) this seems to match. I don’t think I could have experienced the contemplative prayer without having somehow already gone through a sense night. That’s generally the outline in Latin mystical theology.
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Wow. What you describe sounds like some of what I got, too. It is too true, too obvious, even laughably simple, that not even the world’s best lawyer can explain to me how this is anything but Truth and Love flowing in, purifying with non-destructive testing even. You get into that state and you have to wonder, “all that I’ve been trying to do to get to this?” and even feeling silly, at how simple the Goodness of the Lord really is. :heaven:

Felt like that to me, anyway. 😉

Thank you for describing all that; it was most enjoyable. :tiphat:

Alan
 
I’m a very, very slow learner. I’m too selfish to pray to become a victim soul. Once I prayed to bear some of the burden of someone who had been abused as a child…sometimes I wonder if I prayed amiss considering the choices that came with this prayer. I have learned that the pain and the suffering that neglected and abused children carry into their adulthood is like a purgatory on earth.

They are often misunderstood, socially labeled as the ‘wounded one’ and not very employable. They have difficulty in establishing healthy relationships, or else they are very guarded. They have ambivalent feelings of whether to share their experiences, or to hide them. They live in shame and a hatred of themselves, and the enemy makes them further victims. They are always looking for that father or mother figure they never had, yet not knowing what to expect. If they find such a person, that person better have the patience to listen and travail with them.

My heart really goes out to those children who have been abused, they have a very difficult life journey to walk. May our loving God and Father console, guard and keep these precious souls.

God’s peace be with you

micah
 
mercytruth said:
I’m a very, very slow learner. I’m too selfish to pray to become a victim soul. Once I prayed to bear some of the burden of someone who had been abused as a child…sometimes I wonder if I prayed amiss considering the choices that came with this prayer. I have learned that the pain and the suffering that neglected and abused children carry into their adulthood is like a purgatory on earth.
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Your not kidding. I once prayed to suffer for someone. This someone had been abandoned by his Father and emotionally abused by his mother. I never knew such pain was even possible.

I don’t mind being a victim soul but I DEFINITELY need breaks. That last prayer lasted almost three years and I thought I wouldn’t survive.
 
Lady_Love said:
Your not kidding. I once prayed to suffer for someone. This someone had been abandoned by his Father and emotionally abused by his mother. I never knew such pain was even possible.

I don’t mind being a victim soul but I DEFINITELY need breaks. That last prayer lasted almost three years and I thought I wouldn’t survive.
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I really want to thank you for your witness to the sufferings of those who as children have been abused, or neglected. It is something that is not easy to get across to those who are not personally aware of the lasting magnitude of such sin against God’s children.

Once I became involved with one such person, who is beloved of God, I then became a magnet for three or four of these suffering adults at the same time. I can say that thankfully they all had some foundation of faith at the time, and all they needed was a listening prayerful ear while God gradually healed some of their wounds. Eventually, God gave them the courage to forgive their abusers. Finances have always been a problem for all of them.

Two such precious souls never really became employable, and the other two are marginally employable despite their college educations. Putting on a ‘good face’ is near impossible, apart from the fact that it often reminded them of the duplicity of their abused parent. Then of course there is always the underlying mistrust of the parent to authority transference.

Surely He has born our griefs, and carried our sorrows, yet we did esteem Him smitten, stricken of God and afflicted.

May God’s peace be with you

(It helps me to share this, and I apologize for being off topic, but I do find that those who have suffered as abused children often desire a ‘real’ spiritual relationship with God.)

micah
 
I’m similar to you, WoundedIcon. Had a period where I was on fire for the Lord, full of consolations. Now completely dry, can’t pray, can’t attend Mass, don’t feel anything.

I met with my spiritual director on Thursday and said that I’d read about Dark Nights but didn’t think it was happening to me. I said I felt my faith was leaving me and that I was scared. He said that from other things I was saying to him, it was clear to him that I am a person of a deep and strong faith, and that it’s just my depression that is causing this current state.

I will pray for you, and for all those on this thread! :signofcross:
 
Often contemplative prayer is the entering into the sufferings of our fellow man which enables us to unite more fully with them. Thomas Merton once said (paraphrase), Do not expect that contemplation is a perpetual high rather a wound that never stops bleeding.
 
Lady_Love said:
Often contemplative prayer is the entering into the sufferings of our fellow man which enables us to unite more fully with them. Thomas Merton once said (paraphrase), Do not expect that contemplation is a perpetual high rather a wound that never stops bleeding.
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That is a very interesting quote. Where can I learn more about this? I read somewhere that it was dangerous to offer *to *suffer. Something about the devil being more than willing to inflict suffering?
It really confused me as to what suffering is a gift, and what is a curse.
Can you help?
 
I think consolations if sought for or longed for (even if as secondary motives) can mean that we are not motivated enough of pure love of God.

God may withhold feelings from us for various reasons, perhaps because we are putting more weight in them than faith in God.
 
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