Is there anything [moral] that you disagree with the Pope on?

[OraLabora]

There’s a difference, I think, between having doubts or not understanding the reasoning behind a particular belief, and disagreeing with the Church. Disagreement entails taking a position contrary to that of another. I don’t see how a Catholic can justifiably take a stance in opposition to the Church’s, regarding an issue on which it claims to be authoritative. Now, I very much suspect none of us will come to understand each of the Church’s stances and can say that we have no doubts. But to take a stance in conflict with the Church–aka disagreeing–seems unjustifiable.

For example, I cannot see how someone can be Catholic and pro-choice, or pro-gay marriage, or pro-contraception. In essence, such a person is saying “I believe the Church is Christ, and has the authority to speak for Him. I realize the Church says that contraception is wrong. I think contraception is okay. Therefore, I believe Christ, God Himself, the Creator of the Universe, is wrong about contraception.” This is different from “I don’t see how or why contraception is wrong, but I accept the Church’s stance as the correct one.”

Such a person–a Catholic who is pro-choice or whatnot–either disagrees that the Church is really Christ, or isn’t really pro-choice.

I don’t wish to offend anyone, but I simply don’t see any other way of looking at this.

All I am willing to say is that in the areas you enumerated, I am 100% in agreement with the Church.

I may differ somewhat though in how those stands are implemented in practice. For instance in Canada, it is virtually impossible to vote for a pro-life candidate in an election. Does that mean that I must forfeit my right to vote on issues that may be vital to the community?

 

[Matt_707]

Name any of the great moral quandaries of our time; I’m probably on the other side of the fence.

That’s ashame. The Church has so much more to offer than what you have obviously seen. I pray that you will discover the Truth and will be free once again!

Peace of Christ!

-Matt

 

[camerong]

All I am willing to say is that in the areas you enumerated, I am 100% in agreement with the Church.

I may differ somewhat though in how those stands are implemented in practice. For instance in Canada, it is virtually impossible to vote for a pro-life candidate in an election. Does that mean that I must forfeit my right to vote on issues that may be vital to the community?

Certainly. Unless the ballot says “Are you pro-life or pro-choice,” you cannot directly disagree with the Church by voting a certain way (the Church does not take positions on politicians, only on their policies). And this is true more generally. When we talk about our actions, we are always discussing our responses to situations over which we have no control.

Our stances or positions, however, are entirely within our control. There is not a single stance I take that I would not change if the Church told me to do so. Now, as I said, I might have serious doubts, reservations, and difficulties–but these are not disagreements. In this way, positions are distinct from beliefs. I might wholeheartedly believe that abortion is okay, but if I try to believe otherwise, I am not at all in conflict with the Church–we cannot always change our beliefs at our will. A position, however, is more than a belief. It is a statement–“I am in favor or oppose X.” We can always make whatever statement we choose. Its natural for some such statements to be difficult for us–indeed, its difficult for me sometimes to say parts of the Apostle’s Creed, because the devil has my thoughts all muddled. But even if the devil managed to make me believe something in violation of the Creed, it would still be my position.

There is no reason for a Catholic to deliberately maintain a position that is in opposition to the Church.

(I mean to be speaking hypothetically here–I am certainly not intending to be discussing your particular situation, or to be saying that you are wrong in any way. That is obviously not my place)

 

[PrayHarder]

I probably fall on the wrong side of the Church when it comes to matters of war and self-defense. On one hand I know that war is wrong and should be avoided. I know that even with the doctrine of “just war” the Church still doesn’t condone military action. And in today’s world, the idea of what is a “just war” is so fuzzy.

At the same time, I believe countries have every right to defend themselves through military action. There are bad people and governments out there that want to do bad things and sometimes a country needs to stand up for itself. While I would like to have everyone get along, sometimes it just seems like military action is the only means of self-preservation.

I know that Jesus would say (and so would the Pope) that it shouldn’t matter what happens to your country, your home, and your possessions. The Church would say that even if we suffer at the hands of “bad people” we are following in the footsteps of Christ. And God’s way is to turn the other cheek even if that means great suffering. I know that eternally, it really doesn’t matter what is lost in this world since we are called to live for the next one. But in reality, when someone hits us I want our military to hit them back.

 

[Abu]

There are only “moral quandaries” for those who choose not to follow Christ’s teaching.

Christ gave us His Church, founded on Peter, infallible in teaching on faith and morals, with the spirituality of seven sacraments and the Holy Mass, so that we would not be orphans.

Why would anyone choose to live and obey only a part of what Christ requires of us, and reject what doesn’t suit their whims, and call themselves Christian?

 

[Theophorus]

I probably fall on the wrong side of the Church when it comes to matters of war and self-defense. On one hand I know that war is wrong and should be avoided. I know that even with the doctrine of “just war” the Church still doesn’t condone military action. And in today’s world, the idea of what is a “just war” is so fuzzy.

At the same time, I believe countries have every right to defend themselves through military action. There are bad people and governments out there that want to do bad things and sometimes a country needs to stand up for itself. While I would like to have everyone get along, sometimes it just seems like military action is the only means of self-preservation.

I know that Jesus would say (and so would the Pope) that it shouldn’t matter what happens to your country, your home, and your possessions. The Church would say that even if we suffer at the hands of “bad people” we are following in the footsteps of Christ. And God’s way is to turn the other cheek even if that means great suffering. I know that eternally, it really doesn’t matter what is lost in this world since we are called to live for the next one. But in reality, when someone hits us I want our military to hit them back.

Actually the position on self defence or legitimate defence as the catechism calls it is not quite as you suggest here. paragraphs 2263-2267 of the catechism deal with legitimate defence for example:

Legitimate defence can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defence of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.(66) (1997 Catechism of the Catholic Church 2265)

I would recommend the whole article on the 5th commandment from the catechism to get a better idea of the churches position.
God bless

 

[mark_a]

Name any of the great moral quandaries of our time;

abortion

 

[manualman]

I did once. I convinced myself that the pope made an incorrect individual prudential judgement about the morality of the US invading Iraq and toppling Saddam by force (the pope pretty publicly opposed it). In hindsight, I blew it. Next time he makes an opinion like that publicly known I’ll give it a heck of a lot more weight. (It WAS a prudential judgement, but just maybe I didn’t adequately recognize his greater spiritual maturity and impartial view on the conflict…).

I am not aware of any other conflicts.

 

[PrayHarder]

Actually the position on self defence or legitimate defence as the catechism calls it is not quite as you suggest here. paragraphs 2263-2267 of the catechism deal with legitimate defence for example:

I would recommend the whole article on the 5th commandment from the catechism to get a better idea of the churches position.
God bless

I’m aware of the “just war” and “legitimate defence” positions of the Church (thanks for the specific reference though). However, I also know that JPII and Benedict are personally not 100% supportive of the military efforts going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. JPII wasn’t on board with the US’s first involvement with Iraq in Kuwait. So while the Church does have doctrines condoning the use of military action, the pope has never come out and said, “this war is just” or “this war was necessary.”

So yeah, maybe I’m not on the wrong side technically, but I’m sure the pope and I would have some disagreements if we sat face-to-face and discussed this topic.

 

[Newbie2]

I was pulling for hockey team USA in the gold medal round in the Olympics. I heard Benedict was for team Canada.

 

[OraLabora]

Why would anyone choose to live and obey only a part of what Christ requires of us, and reject what doesn’t suit their whims, and call themselves Christian?

Because we are a fallen species and can never get it 100% right due to… stubbornness, lack of proper instruction, inadequate ability to understand, malformed consciences that we only think are properly formed, doubt, invincible ignorance, or plain stupidity.

And it will always be that way on this Earth.

Which is precisely why we needed a Redeemer.

 

[Think_About_It]

Not here either. Well…I have a problem with CCC841. But that is my problem.

Of all the bulletpoints in the catechism you chose not to become completely indoctrinated with, it’s extending an olive branch to other faithful, God-fearing believers. That’s whacky.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Yes, a few things, but you don’t have to agree with everything to be Catholic. In fact, the CC considers you a Catholic (whether you want to be or not) by default.

I agree with most of that. I’d make the following change in the above statement for me though: “…than just blindly accepting everything as if the Church were master and you were dog”.

The other change is that IRL I mostly keep my doubts or opinions to myself. I do discuss my differing opinions here because we’re all Catholic and if there’s any place to discuss, I thought it would be here

Frankly I don’t know anyone IRL that agrees with everything the Pope says.

Well, even though this is ‘virtual’ (i.e. computer) life, I’m a real person. . .and I agree with e**verything the Pope says regarding Catholic teaching. ** Yep, even though when I was younger I went through a few stages of rebellion and misunderstanding. . .when I got a little more maturity and a little more humility drummed into me I started to understand what I thought I could NEVER understand and what I had great difficulty accepting ‘back then.’ Thank goodness that God never ‘gives up’ when we are so sure that ‘we know better.’

Now I never had the problem with one area we’ve had discussions on, Rence (for some reason I never, ever questioned that truth) but never fear, I had plenty of questions and hesitations in OTHER areas, probably in some cases where YOU have never had a doubt or misunderstanding and where you might be surprised that I could have had a difficulty. We’re all different and we’re all at different ‘stages’. The person who is full of doubt right now might in a year or two be completely free of doubt (on a given issue); thing is, the way he/she resolves the doubt can be either good/appropriate (accepting the Church teaching) or bad/inappropriate (rejecting the Church teaching). I’m glad my resolution of doubt came about in a ‘good way’ and that’s why I try to emphasize that it is the right way, so that (God willing) my words of support might help others. Even if it’s just planting a seed way, way, way down somewhere. . .