Is There Biblical Evidence To Catholics Praying to Mary?

[Justin_Mary]

To me, this whole thing is about our understanding of heaven.

If we believe when we get to heaven we’ll be in a state of bliss, kick back & enjoy life with God for all eternity, then there’s no need for praying to anyone but Jesus.

If we believe when we get to heaven we will be working with God for all eternity serving creation then it becomes important to prepare ourselves.

We won’t become angels, but we will become like angels ministering to God in all we do, all we say, all we think.

Just like the angels minister to God performing various tasks in heaven & on earth, so too will we. That’s what the Saints are doing now in heaven. Not that God needs there help, but it is the way He decided to exercise His sovereignty over all creation.

Praying to the Saints is part of our preparation. Jesus is the head, Mary the neck. Jesus is the way, Mary the gate.

The Church, Mother Church gives us a glimpse of this. Our prayers are more affective when we pray together, in unison, in the order of the Mass. Praying “through” the Church is praying “through” Mary.

Disclaimer, I’m just thinking out loud trying to understand all this myself.

 

[Limoncello4021]

It doesn’t look like the OP ever came back to comment on this thread. I hope GrowinginFaith continues to learn and grow in faith.

 

[rightness]

I was listening to Edward Sri’s presentation on “Praying the Rosary like Never Before”, and it had one very enlightening truth.

Hail Mary isn’t a Mary prayer, it’s a Christ-centered prayer, a prayer for accepting Jesus. Let me just bold for emphasis.

“Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.”
“Bless art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.”

Then we ask Mary to intercede for us in the second half as it is written in scriptures in Revelations and the typology example of Bathsheba and Solomon.

We’re not praying about Mary herself, we’re praying on how Mary accepted God’s will to bear our Christ in her womb, and that’s what us as Catholics need to keep reminding ourselves, especially when we accept Jesus in the sacrament of the Eucherist.

 

[adamhovey1988]

We ask people on CAF to pray for us, no? Well, here’s the thing, people in Heaven aren’t dead, they are alive. Think of it as asking your friends for prayer. The Saints on in heaven, pray for the saints (a common word for Christians in the NT) on earth Revelation 5:8 DRA - And when he had opened the book, the - Bible Gateway

 

[Cathoholic]

GrowingInThe Faith . . .

. . . Please understand that I am NOT attacking you, I’m honestly just really curious about the Catholic faith . . .

Hey! I get that. Thanks for the heads up.

First question, I’ve heard that Catholics don’t pray to Mary like you would pray to God

That’s right so far. Since the Blessed Virgin Mary isn’t God, we do not address Mary that way.

Yet, in the Hail Mary prayer it sounds like you are speaking directly to Mary. How can you talk to directly to Mary or pray to her without committing idolatry?

Because I am not worshiping Mary.

It just doesn’t make sense to me in my Protestant Christian faith. Please don’t take offense.

I get that. I come from a mixed-bag religion family (Catholics, Lutherans, and Presbyterians) and to top it all off, went to Baptist services, Sunday school and Bible camp as a kid (while Catholic).

Catholics believe that dead saints hear prayers to them. That means they may receive millions of requests for prayer in one day. Are the saints to spend all their time praying that God helps us? Though the saints are blessed, they are not omnipotent or all-powerful.

No they are not “all powerful”. But they ARE out of the realm of creation. They do not dwell in created “time” the way you and I would. (Sorry. That’s the best I can do.)

Third, the Bible doesn’t say anything about praying to those who have died. (Which, again, confuses me because instead of asking God to ask those who have died who are now with him to pray for us, Catholics speak as if they are directly talking to them during prayer.)

First we DO go directly to God. Alright? (But we ALSO pray for one another and even when we are in Heaven, we cheer the earthly saints on.)

You mean “died” merely physically right. Because Jesus says they are not “dead”. Jesus says if you believe in Him, you too will never die.

Denying this is a Sadducee tradition that Jesus opposes.

JOHN 11:25-26 25 Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, 26 and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

MATTHEW 22:23, 29, 31-32 23 The same day Sadducees came to him, who say that there is no resurrection; and they asked him a question, . 29 But Jesus answered them, "You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God. . . . 31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, 32
'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
He is not God of the dead, but of the living."

In Catholic Christianity, there are no “prayers to the dead” (in this respect).

1/3 . . .

 

[Neotric27]

You need to remember that outside of Earth there is no time. It may seem like a million prayers to each saint every day for us, but in Heaven where time does not exist, it may seem like nothing.

 

[Justin_Mary]

No they are not “all powerful”. But they ARE out of the realm of creation. They do not dwell in created “time” the way you and I would. (Sorry. That’s the best I can do.)

May be better to say they exist outside of the physical world. Outside of time is also true, I believe.

But the spiritual world is part of creation. All things visible & invisible, remember?

 

[Cathoholic]

Justin_Mary . . .

May be better to say they exist outside of the physical world. Outside of time is also true, I believe.

Yes. I am referring to the physical cosmos (X, Y, and Z axis) and time available to our senses and mind now in this world. (Time is a creation of God.)

Thanks.

 

[Cathoholic]

Third, the Bible doesn’t say anything about praying to those who have died.

I am going to change your question to Heavenly beings (as I have explained from the words of Jesus why these beings are not “dead”).

Third, the Bible doesn’t say anything about praying to Heavenly beings.

If you mean WORSHIPING them, the Bible WARNS us against that.

But if you mean asking them for their intercession, the Bible matter of factly assumes it.

TOBIT 12:15-21 15 I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels
who present the prayers of the saints
and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One."
16 They were both alarmed; and they fell upon their faces, for they were afraid. 17 But he said to them, “Do not be afraid; you will be safe. But praise God for ever. 18 For I did not come as a favor on my part, but by the will of our God. Therefore praise him for ever. 19 All these days I merely appeared to you and did not eat or drink, but you were seeing a vision. 20 And now give thanks to God, for I am ascending to him who sent me. Write in a book everything that has happened.” 21 Then they stood up; but they saw him no more. 22 So they confessed the great and wonderful works of God, and acknowledged that the angel of the Lord had appeared to them.

Now consider Revelation 5:8 and Revelation 8:5.

REVELATION 5:8 8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb,
each holding a harp, and
with golden bowls full of incense,
which are the prayers of the saints;

REVELATION 8:2-7 2 Then I saw the seven angels who stand before God,
and seven trumpets were given to them.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer;
and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne;
4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God. 5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar and threw it on the earth; and there were peals of thunder, voices, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake. 6 Now the seven angels who had the seven trumpets made ready to blow them. 7 The first angel blew his trumpet, and there followed hail and fire, mixed with blood, which fell on the earth; and a third of the earth was burnt up, and a third of the trees were burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

2/3 . . .

 

[Cathoholic]

3/3 . . . .

We see Heavenly beings presenting prayers of the saints to God.
Since they are already in Heaven, this is presumably the saints on earth.

We also see God utilizing the angels in Heaven to carry out His commands too!
(Can’t God get the job done Himself?)

Of course God can get the job done!

God does this to allow us participation IN Him. To grace his created beings with a PARTICIPATION or a koinonia IN Him flows from God’s gratuitous love for us. Not His “need”.

ACTS 9:32-42 32 Now as Peter went here and there among them all, he came down also to the saints that lived at Lydda. 33 There he found a man named Aeneas, who had been bedridden for eight years and was paralyzed. 34 And Peter said to him, “Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; rise and make your bed.” And immediately he rose. 35 And all the residents of Lydda and Sharon saw him, and they turned to the Lord. 36 Now there was at Joppa a disciple named Tabitha, which means Dorcas. She was full of good works and acts of charity. 37 In those days she fell sick and died; and when they had washed her, they laid her in an upper room. 38 Since Lydda was near Joppa, the disciples, hearing that Peter was there, sent two men to him entreating him, “Please come to us without delay.” 39 So Peter rose and went with them. And when he had come, they took him to the upper room. All the widows stood beside him weeping, and showing tunics and other garments which Dorcas made while she was with them. 40 But Peter put them all outside and knelt down and prayed; then turning to the body he said, “Tabitha, rise.” And she opened her eyes, and when she saw Peter she sat up. 41 And he gave her his hand and lifted her up. Then calling the saints and widows he presented her alive. 42 And it became known throughout all Joppa, and many believed in the Lord.

.

NOT ACTS 9:32-42 32 Tabitha fell sick and died. So Peter rose and went with them to the home where Tabitha’s dead body was. And when he had come, they took him to the upper room. All the widows stood beside him weeping, and showing tunics and other garments which Dorcas made while she was with them. 40 But Peter put them all outside and knelt down and prayed;
then turning to the body Peter said, "Tabitha, rise."
And God immediately rebuked Peter for daring to talk to a dead person.
42 And it became known throughout all Joppa,
and because of Peter’s “necromancy”
that wasn’t really necromancy
(but still was unacceptable “worship”
merely because he was talking to a dead person),
many refused to believe in the Lord.

I’ll await your (name removed by moderator)ut and post more later.

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[BoomerangToo]

Besides everyone else’s excellent posts…

Protestants have conflated the word “pray” with “worship”. Pray does not mean worship. It means “to ask, to entreat, to plead, to request, to petition” You can pray to anyone, living or dead, mortal or divine. You are simply asking for something. Prayer can be worshipful, but it doesn’t have to be. The word “pray” is even used on legal documents to this day. “I pray the court for a change of venue” “We pray for a speedy settlement” etc, etc, etc. It has nothing to do with worship. Protestants did not invent the word.

Secondly, Jews have a practice of going to the tombs of the righteous dead (someone a Catholic would call a Saint) and praying there at the tomb. The intention is that the dead person will pass your prayers on to God. They have been doing this for thousands of years.

The Catholic faith was started directly by Jews. Jesus, Peter and Paul. All Jews. They prayed at the tombs of the righteous dead. They prayed for the intercession of the saints. Catholics have continued this practice. This is what Tradition is all about. Protestants have cut themselves off from Tradition, to their loss, in addition to removing seven books from their Bible. Protestants don’t understand Catholic practices because they have no Tradition and they have the world’s smallest Bible.

 

[Annie]

If I asked a person who seemed to me to be especially holy to pray for someone who had a large problem, you would think that was normal, wouldn’t you? I hear about “prayer warriors” who are considered especially good people to ask to pray for us because they are close to Jesus, right?

Now, who was the closest human being to Jesus–wouldn’t that person be Mary His Mother? (Who am I that the mother of our Lord should come to me? asks Elizabeth)

So we ask Mary to pray for us because she is the TOP prayer warrior of all time!

 

[cathjuche]

Hey, thanks for taking the time to ask this. Keep in mind, I’m not the most experienced on the Catholic faith either. I converted recently, so I fully understand everything you think about this, this theological question was on my mind the entire time I was protestant, as well as hearing this claim against Catholics several times from my protty friends.

It’s a theological concept called the “Communion of Saints”, and it is found in the Apostles Creed. The idea is that by our Baptism we are made one body in Christ, and because of that, we can help each other by praying for each other. It doesn’t end on Earth, nothing including death can separate us from God’s love. The saints in Heaven are alive and they can and will pray for us members of their body. This doesn’t even need to be canonised saints, just anybody in Heaven you can ask for intercession.

Yet , in the Hail Mary prayer it sounds like you are speaking directly to Mary. How can you talk to directly to Mary or pray to her without committing idolatry?

The rosary very clearly states “pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death,” The prayer is only worded to treat her with veneration and respect, not worship.

Hell, here’s some history for you. During tensions with East and West (pre-schism), there was this issue with determining orthodox doctrines and translating it into other languages, which led to mistranslations.
One really famous issue was the one with Icons. The 2nd Council of Nicaea of 787 declared that veneration of icons (icons would include either saints or Christ in it) is permittable and not idolatrous. However, when translated to King Charlemagne’s court, the word “venerate” was translated to “adore”, which would mean to worship, something of course only God deserves. Due to that, a local council was called to condemn the council, angering the East. Even if Charlemagne wasn’t the Pope or anything, I think it goes against the Protestant claim that the Church has been trying to get Christians to be idolatrous for centuries, it’s very easy to see they were very against idolatry. I kinda got sidetracked there, just wanted to point that out.

Catholics believe that dead saints hear prayers to them. That means they may receive millions of requests for prayer in one day. Are the saints to spend all their time praying that God helps us? Though the saints are blessed, they are not omnipotent or all-powerful.

You’re right that they aren’t omnipotent, but I’m sure even you as a Protestant can agree that God is outside of time. If he’s outside of time and views all of history as some sort of timeline, he can fetch a prayer made later than the actual event and apply it to a past event. She doesn’t keep up with millions of prayer requests as it happens.
Heaven’s also eternal worship of God, she and us will be spending all our time praying to God. Nothing wrong with that, it sounds great

 

[cathjuche]

Third, the Bible doesn’t say anything about praying to those who have died. (Which, again, confuses me because instead of asking God to ask those who have died who are now with him to pray for us, Catholics speak as if they are directly talking to them during prayer.)

Does the bible need to? It’s just asking a member of the Communion of Saints to pray for us. I’m sure you’ve asked somebody to pray for you before, I mean even Paul quite clearly sends prayer requests to the church at Thessaloniki. Communion of Saints considered, it’s pretty much the same. The other folks tried to use scripture, so you should give that a read. Also, I don’t understand what you mean “they speak directly to them.” Yeah… to pray for us. They’re treated with respect, but prayers to saints tend to have a consistent theme of asking for something.

To get back to my point, God says we should approach His throne with confidence. (Hebrews 4:16)

I don’t understand this either. Which part of this verse means we can’t ask for the prayers of members of the Body of Christ?

In fact, Scripture talks about not showing favoritism multiple times.

When referencing partiality (favouritism), it’s usually referring to things like treating people differently based on social class, or other things like that. When reading James, I remember an entire subsection of a chapter being about not showing partiality to rich and poor. Or with Leviticus, I remember it condemning injustice in courts and partiality to different social statuses. When 1 Tim. mentions it, it’s mentioning certain types of people and their role in their church, and saying to keep these instructions without partiality. These are all standards I’m sure we can agree on, but there’s nothing condemnable there about having a favourite saint to pray to. Like in real life, I have a friend who I ask for prayers from the most. It’s not that I think she’s “better” than any other Christian friend I have, but I feel most comfortable asking it from her because we know each other enough and we’ve been in depth about our struggles. That doesn’t mean I show partiality to her over others, she’s just a really great friend. Works the same here, and even those who pray to Mary most tend to ask other Saints for help too.

Why are our personal prayers to Yahweh not enough?

Here’s something I never understood honestly, why I send prayer requests to my friends when God can hear my request alone. This is probably something another Catholic (or just Christian in general, because I’m sure most people ask for prayer requests) more experienced can answer. But it’s pretty biblical, again Paul does it. I don’t know why, but it’s something we can do.

I spent a while writing this, had to divide it into two posts lol. I hope you took the time to read it. God bless!

 

[Justin_Mary]

Here’s something I never understood honestly, why I send prayer requests to my friends when God can hear my request alone. This is probably something another Catholic (or just Christian in general, because I’m sure most people ask for prayer requests) more experienced can answer.

All prayers are answered. Unfortunately many times the answer is no. However, the prayers of a righteous man is powerful & effective.

I’m not a righteous man. I’m one of the sinners we ask the BVM to pray for.

I also believe after receiving communion, God treats me as if I am righteous. Just as the angel of death passed over the first born in Egypt, my sins are passed over (we thank God for holding us worthy to be in His presence & minister to Him).

& after confession I believe my prayers are particularly effective.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You’ve gotten some good responses on here already, GrowingintheFaith.

Have you also considered using the search function on the forum to find past threads addressing your questions?

It’s okay to ask questions here, but everything you have asked has been discussed on here in past threads dozens of times. Honestly, we probably get one of these questions about once a week. If you’re really interested then you might want to go back and read the past responses, as some people have left the forum or get tired of addressing the same question over and over so might not respond to your thread.

You may also wish to search the overall Catholic Answers website, as apologists have written entire essays discussing the topics of asking for help from Mary and the saints, and on the Hail Mary, etc.

Also, I’m not quite sure why you’d say “In conclusion, please pay special attention to each question.”
I presume people will pay the same attention to each of your questions that they pay to every other question on here, and every other incidence of people asking the same question over and over. There’s nothing particularly special about these questions. They’re like CAF’s Greatest Hits.

I would suggest that when you are asking a number of questions in the future, it might be good for you to split them up into one thread per question. There is a length limit on posts here and it’s a bit hard for people to respond when somebody puts four or five big questions into one post and expects a detailed answer to each one. We run up against the character limits or the warnings about too many posts in a thread, when we try to answer.

 

[Francis]

Where is the OP ? no response yet ?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It seems like OPs who ask these kinds of questions often don’t respond back.

 

[Gorgias]

It seems like OPs who ask these kinds of questions often don’t respond back.

Give her a chance. She’s only been registered for nine days now.

Besides, if she’s not looking to argue the point, then she just wanted to hear what Catholics think on the subject. She was wildly successful!

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Hannah Prayer is the most beautiful prayer in giving all …Glory, Worship, Praise Thanksgiving, Hannah fully knowing that nothing is impossible with God.

What does this have to do with anything?