Is there ever a reason not to convert

[mercygate]

Beloved Mrs. Ryan – (Did I miss your own name?)

I hear ya about not wanting to have your conversion on the six o’clock news if you come into the Church! Maybe you can negotiate that but chances are they will try to make it as public as possible. I could not negotiate a quiet entree in my parish (although two other places offered me a private reception).

As for confession – It’s the second best thing about being Catholic! Honest! After the Eucharist, that is. REALLY. I know that may seem hard to swallow. But the scriptural foundation for this sacrament is impeccable and unassailable. The acutal experience trumps just about everything else in the practice of the faith.

Do not downplay the importance of being on the same page with your spouse. Ultimately, you are personally responsible for your own conscience, of course. But following the leadership of a godly husband is a good and holy thing.

God love ya!

 

[mercygate]

RyanL's Wife:

Baptists believe that sin separates you from God, so in order to regain that relationship, one confesses to God.

Catholics believe that also.

I was taught, confess as soon as you realize the sin, so you can get right with God immediately. Here’s the problem, we believe that once you ask for forgiveness, God forgives you and that sin is gone. “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

He also said we are to confess our sins “to one another” under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in the Epistle of James. And he gave the power – the specific, concrete power of actually forgiving sins through the apostles on Easter night. When we come to confession, we do confess directly to God (at least we have it on good authority that God does not leave the room ) but we avail ourselves of the specific provision Christ has given us in this beautiful sacrament.

1 John 1:9. However, if we confess our sin and then hold onto that sin, (continuously feeling guilty about it and asking again and again for forgiveness) then we are calling God a liar by not believing he forgave us when we first asked. (Does this make sense?) So the problem is, if I confess to God as soon as I sin and then confess that same sin to a priest later, I would feel like I didn’t trust God enough to forgive me the first time. In essence, I would feel like I was sinning by re-confessing my sins. Or the other option would be to save everything up until I could go make a confession, but then I would be separated from God until I could get there and that doesn’t sound like a wise choice either.

In light of the Catholic view of this sacrament, I believe these reservations dissolve. Catholics believe that if we are hit by a truck and die on the way to confession, that our perfect contrition and our intention to confess render us “good to go” to the pearly gates. A lot of this would sort itself out in a calm conversation with a good priest – privately, on your own terms.

 

[Orionthehunter]

You are in the process of discernment from the Holy Spirit. It is not always easy to hear the whisper (God somehow likes speaking quietly!) especially in the cacophony of this world and that Satan likes to yell.

Your posts display much of what is in your heart and it is good as God made you in His Image. He gave you the gift of free will and your capacity to freely choose to love Him.

A couple of things to keep in mind. Your husband’s primary obligation to you is to help you get to heaven. A spouse who denies this responsibility or worse opposes your efforts to get to heaven denies his very existence. Your hubby is obviously taking this promise quite seriously. Second, read the scriptural passage when Jesus tells the Apostles to cast their nets in deep water. Trust in Jesus. Finally, you don’t have to rush your conversion. Just always be receptive. The Holy Spirit will not steer you wrong. I think the advice of living a year as a Catholic (pray a devotion regularly, go up to the Priest at Communion to recieve the Blessing while you pray for a Spiritual Communion, take time to regularly examine your conscience and Pray an Act of Contrition, and immerse yourself in Scriptures) will clear the dissonance in your heart.

P.S. I’ll make a prediction. After you make your First Confession and First Communion, you’ll be singing from the rooftops.

 

[RyanL_s_Wife]

Fidelis:

I’m afraid you might have to rethink this one. Some things are, indeed, mutally exclusive to the point where if you believe one, you can’t hold the other view. A prime example is that of authority. Sola Scriptura/private interpretation cannot be sqared with the Church’s claim to have been given authority by Christ. It is something that needs to be worked through.

Let me rephrase what I said or meant, at least. At this point I think that while some of the beliefs the Baptists and Catholics hold are totally different, having one view or the other will not affect your relationship with God or your ultimate salvation.(I realize you guys don’t agree with this, but bare with me.) So with this viewpoint, it wouldn’t matter whether I was Catholic or Baptist, and since I find worshiping in a Baptist church (at this at this point) brings me closer to God, why would I leave. (and yes, I know this comment will bring a bombardment of receiving Christ through the Eucharist comments. )

Which leads to my other worries. I attend Mass with my husband every week, and while I can’t fully participate or even understand it in the way Catholics do, I really don’t get much out of it. I listen to the scripture and the homily and that is nice, but I can get that at my church…scripture and a 30 minute sermon. So yes, I learn something everytime I go to mass, but I don’t feel I am worshipping Him as fully as I do in my Church. I use to leave my church feeling unspeakable joy. Kind of like being on a high. But I have to admit, ever since I started investigating, considering the Catholic church, I have lost a lot of the joy. I almost feel like I am betraying/turning my back on God. (I know that is not the case…but why would the thought of leaving my church sadden me to the point of losing my joy in worship) What if I join the Catholic church but never find the joy again? I realize you will all say that won’t happen, but can you understand why that would be a huge concern for me. (“What ifs” are great, aren’t they?)

Still trying to figure things out,

RyanL’s Wife

Of course, I fully admit this could be a total copout on my part.

 

[sententia]

attend Mass with my husband every week, and while I can’t fully participate or even understand it in the way Catholics do, I really don’t get much out of it.

I think that may be the root of your difficulty with mass- how does one worship in such a way when they have no understanding of what is going on, ya know? Whether you decide to convert or not, I think a reading of Scott Hahn’s “The Lambs Supper” would help in your understanding of the mass. Looking into why we do when and where we do things during the mass should really help your understanding.

 

[johnshelby]

so, do you think you’d feel this way if your husband
had been Lutheran, and you were considering
changing churchs?

or… could the loss of the joy you used to feel be
because of what you are beginning to feel in the
Catholic church??

 

[RyanL_s_Wife]

johnshelby:

so, do you think you’d feel this way if your husband
had been Lutheran, and you were considering
changing churchs?

or… could the loss of the joy you used to feel be
because of what you are beginning to feel in the
Catholic church??

I can’t answer this question because I don’t really know much about the Lutheran church, I have been to a methodist church and it wasn’t too bad. But seriously, I have considered your theory time and time again, and sadly, I don’t really think that is the case. Like I said, it feels more like a betrayal. I am really just so confused. maybe it is the confusion that is taking away the joy. I hate uncertainty. I think the uncertainty is making me insane.

RyanL’s Wife

ps johnshelby…I was raise East Texas Missionary Baptist, so you probably know where I am coming from.

 

[Madia]

Hello,

Have you tried getting into contact with the Coming Home Network?
chnetwork.org/

It might be helpful for you to talk to someone there on the phone who deals specifically with people interested in the Catholic faith and could discuss at length your situation.

 

[johnshelby]

RyanL's Wife:

I can’t answer this question because I don’t really know much about the Lutheran church, I have been to a methodist church and it wasn’t too bad. But seriously, I have considered your theory time and time again, and sadly, I don’t really think that is the case. Like I said, it feels more like a betrayal. I am really just so confused. maybe it is the confusion that is taking away the joy. I hate uncertainty. I think the uncertainty is making me insane.

RyanL’s Wife

ps johnshelby…I was raise East Texas Missionary Baptist, so you probably know where I am coming from.

i’m thinking you are right…

well, the bottom line is, you are saved… you are happy… you
have a wonderful family… you are blessed and are continuing
to be blessed… if in time, you feel the call to convert, i get the
feeling you will not let anything stand in your way…

 

[rwoehmke]

captaincoog:

your heavenly Father knows that. You are a person in time and space, who has all the same characteristics as every one else. (intellect, will and emotions).

I found that everything falls into place once one realises that the Church that Christ founded with Peter as visible head is still here today, still retaining all the authority which our Lord vested in her. The one and only Catholic Church. It would be impossible for Christ’s Church to lead anyone into anything but Truth.

The Captain’s communique contains some profound and excellent information. First of all you have intellect, will, and emotions. Second coming to a realization that the Catholic Church is the one true Church founded by Christ is very important because at that point one is required to come into that Church or risk losing ones soul. Faith as a virtue is defined as an act of the will in which one intellectually accepts all that Jesus teaches through his Church. It is not feeling good, although that is often a part of it for many.

I find as you do that Mass does not always leave me full of joy and warm feelings. I have been a Catholic all my life and have often wondered why having all that we have as Catholics that when we come together at Mass it is not a time of joy filled praise for our Lord. The prayers, scripture, and hymns there are sufficent unto the task, but so many in the pews participate like they are at a funeral instead of at the best thing that Jesus has left us. This is for me where intellect and will come into place as I realize I am at Mass because the Lord has called me there, teaches me there, heals me there, and feeds me there. I have shed tears of joy at Mass that the Lord has allowed me to share in His work and to be with his people, to have the wife and family and friends He has sent my way. It is different from the exuberant joy I have experienced at prayer and praise meetings or Mass being celebrated with a Catholic Charismatic gathering, but it is for sure a quiet and deep joy.

By the way are you an Ryan in South Bend at Notre Dame? There used to be a large Catholic Charismatic Community there and maybe still is. Check them out if they are. You will find a group that has the whole truth of the Catholic Church, but one that has a lot of the exuberant joy you find with praise and worship in the Baptist Church.

Bottom line. Do not convert until you are convinced that the Catholic Church is the one Church founded by Jesus Christ that has all the truth and not just some of it. Until that happens may the Lord hold you in the palm of his hand and love and protect you and your family. Dick

 

[Mickey]

Hi RL’s Wife!

As JP2 said, “Be not afraid”.

**My child, do you want to crush the head of the serpent? Openly reveal your thoughts in confession. The strength of the devil lies in cunning thoughts. Do you hold on to them? He remains hidden. Do you bring them to the light? He disappears. And then Christ rejoices, the prayer progresses, and the light of grace heals and brings peace to your heart. **
(Monastic Wisdom)

Peace and blessings to you,
Mickey

 

[Consecrated]

RyanL's Wife:

Let me rephrase what I said or meant, at least. At this point I think that while some of the beliefs the Baptists and Catholics hold are totally different, having one view or the other will not affect your relationship with God or your ultimate salvation.(I realize you guys don’t agree with this, but bare with me.) So with this viewpoint, it wouldn’t matter whether I was Catholic or Baptist, and since I find worshiping in a Baptist church (at this at this point) brings me closer to God, why would I leave. (and yes, I know this comment will bring a bombardment of receiving Christ through the Eucharist comments. )

Which leads to my other worries. I attend Mass with my husband every week, and while I can’t fully participate or even understand it in the way Catholics do, I really don’t get much out of it. I listen to the scripture and the homily and that is nice, but I can get that at my church…scripture and a 30 minute sermon. So yes, I learn something everytime I go to mass, but I don’t feel I am worshipping Him as fully as I do in my Church. I use to leave my church feeling unspeakable joy. Kind of like being on a high. But I have to admit, ever since I started investigating, considering the Catholic church, I have lost a lot of the joy. I almost feel like I am betraying/turning my back on God. (I know that is not the case…but why would the thought of leaving my church sadden me to the point of losing my joy in worship) What if I join the Catholic church but never find the joy again? I realize you will all say that won’t happen, but can you understand why that would be a huge concern for me. (“What ifs” are great, aren’t they?)

Still trying to figure things out,

RyanL’s Wife

Of course, I fully admit this could be a total copout on my part.

Do you believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist?

If you do, then your time at Mass is better spent than your time at a non-Catholic service, simply because you may bask in the Real Presence of Jesus and worship Him in the Eucharist. And this is totally aside from what you may or may not feel. You may never feel the joy you remember again, and yet despite that your faith may be growing and growing.

There have been many saints (St. Therese of Lisieux and St. John of the Cross come to mind) whom God allowed to suffer through feelings of despair and doubts. And yet, they did not allow those feelings to influence their faith that God, and His Church, and the sacraments, are REAL. They clung to their faith and love through the midst of apathy, doubt, and utter joylessness. And their faith grew exponentially. Jesus said, “Blessed are those who do not see [or feel, or completely understand], and yet believe.” :yup:

And ultimately, the whole goal of loving God (at Mass or otherwise) isn’t to see what you “get out of” it, but of giving that love because God is all-good, and all-worthy of our love. Period.

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi!
It’s so nice to finally meet you! Your hubby is one of my very favorite people on this form and a Catholic who knows his faith. You must be someone very special if he married you…not to mention making him a very lucky guy.

Like you, I wouldn’t convert just for drill, or without being fully convinced that that the Catholic Church is all that Ryan tells you she is. That is intellectual suicide and that is most definitely NOT a Catholic trait.

You sound like a very honest person and one who will look objectively at what evidence is offered and respond accordingly.

Let me suggest one thing that will probably be the very best thing that any of us can suggest for you.

The Catholic Home Study Service offers a series of excellent Catholic studies that are designed to help folks who want to get to know more about what the Catholic Church teaches and why. They are completely FREE of charge and I urge you to sign up for one and then maybe work your way through them all. You won’t be disappointed, I know, because I have completed them all and begged for more. They are all at your own pace, and you can send in your answers online and even ask questions, though Ryan can probably handle that for you as well.

I strongly recommend that you start with either the one called “We Believe…” or “We Worship…” The first is on what we believe (well duh, right? )and the second is on the Mass and might really help you better understand what is going on there and get more out of it.

As a Baptist you are used to studying to show thyself approved unto God, right? Well, here ya go again.

God bless and if I can be of any help at al please feel free to PM me here.
Pax tecum,

 

[RyanL_s_Wife]

Consecrated:

Do you believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist?

And ultimately, the whole goal of loving God (at Mass or otherwise) isn’t to see what you “get out of” it, but of giving that love because God is all-good, and all-worthy of our love. Period.

It is funny that you mentioned this…I was just re-reading my posts and noticed there were an awful lot of "I"s and "Me"s in there. I recalled a sermon where our pastor preached exactly on what you just reminded me. Worship isn’t about me. So I will continue to try and keep this in mind while I work things out.

As far as the Eucharist… well, as I told me husband, If it is the real presence of Christ that would be pretty neat!
Right now, I am at the point where I can acknowledge that it is possible and that the scripture really do say pretty much just that. But it is one thing saying it. However, it is a totally different thing to Act on that. In other words, saying it’s Christ’s body and blood is easy, but worshipping and consuming the Eucharists (as Catholics believe it) is a very scary thing. (going back to the "what if"s. What if it isn’t?I would be worshipping something other than Christ, SCARY!)

I realize I still have a long way to go and a lot of things to figure out, but thank you everyone for your advice and comments.

RyanL’s Wife

 

[mercygate]

All I can say, following this thread is that if and when Mrs. RyanL comes into the Catholic Church, the Church is going to be a big winner! I am deeply impressed by your integrity, your sincerity and your ability to take one step at a time.

Awesome, as my kids would say!

 

[TinaK]

RyanL's Wife:

Like I said, it feels more like a betrayal. I am really just so confused. maybe it is the confusion that is taking away the joy. I hate uncertainty. I think the uncertainty is making me insane.

I know how you feel. I’m Lutheran and the one of the hardest things for me has been the feeling of betrayal towards my church, my beloved pastor, and my family. Sometimes I think I could convert; the next minute I think “Never”. Most of the time I find I’m not really Lutheran and not really Catholic but some sort of weird hybrid in the middle. When things get really bad (confusion+uncertainty= :whacky: ) I read “Story of a Soul.” I’ve learned a lot about patience from St. Therese. Then I sit back and watch my synod self-destruct and everything I’m familiar with start to disappear. (I just realized, maybe God wants me to witness this so I know that there is a visible church

You are blessed to have the husband you do. Mine was baptized Catholic but never brought up in the Church, so we have different views of church membership. My dh is Lutheran (joined my church when we got married) but he is very content to stick his head in the sand and pew-sit, whereas I watch everything that goes on in our church and synod. (It’s being of German-Lutheran descent, that’s what’s wrong with me.) Appreciate the fact that you even have someone to go to Mass with. I’m on my own or with two kids (a 3 year old and 4 month old).

Ever read “Rome Sweet Home”? It is excellent. As for me, I’ve been reading a lot of carmelites lately. I think conversion takes a lot of patience and the saints of Carmel seem to have a lot of that. I just finally got brave enough to mention to my pastor my leanings toward Rome, so I’ll see where that goes. More waiting :whacky:

TinaK

 

[Orionthehunter]

RyanL's Wife:

It is funny that you mentioned this…I was just re-reading my posts and noticed there were an awful lot of "I"s and "Me"s in there. I recalled a sermon where our pastor preached exactly on what you just reminded me. Worship isn’t about me. So I will continue to try and keep this in mind while I work things out.

As far as the Eucharist… well, as I told me husband, If it is the real presence of Christ that would be pretty neat!
Right now, I am at the point where I can acknowledge that it is possible and that the scripture really do say pretty much just that. But it is one thing saying it. However, it is a totally different thing to Act on that. In other words, saying it’s Christ’s body and blood is easy, but worshipping and consuming the Eucharists (as Catholics believe it) is a very scary thing. (going back to the "what if"s. What if it isn’t?I would be worshipping something other than Christ, SCARY!)

I realize I still have a long way to go and a lot of things to figure out, but thank you everyone for your advice and comments.

RyanL’s Wife

Regarding worshipping something other than Christ, keep in mind that the heirarchy of the Church (Christ’s ordination of Peter and the fact the Apostles continued to submit to Peter and his successor, Linus despite other Apostles still being alive when Peter was crucified) and the Mass both came before the Bible.

 

[LSK]

RyanL's Wife:

It is funny that you mentioned this…I was just re-reading my posts and noticed there were an awful lot of "I"s and "Me"s in there. I recalled a sermon where our pastor preached exactly on what you just reminded me. Worship isn’t about me. So I will continue to try and keep this in mind while I work things out.

As far as the Eucharist… well, as I told me husband, If it is the real presence of Christ that would be pretty neat!
Right now, I am at the point where I can acknowledge that it is possible and that the scripture really do say pretty much just that. But it is one thing saying it. However, it is a totally different thing to Act on that. In other words, saying it’s Christ’s body and blood is easy, but worshipping and consuming the Eucharists (as Catholics believe it) is a very scary thing. (going back to the "what if"s. What if it isn’t?I would be worshipping something other than Christ, SCARY!)

I realize I still have a long way to go and a lot of things to figure out, but thank you everyone for your advice and comments.

RyanL’s Wife

You have brought up something that troubled Kimberly Hahn. I heard her speak to it on Catholic Radio. I had never thought about what this issue must be like for someone considering coming into the fullness of the Christian faith, and it gave me pause.

She was at Mass with her husband, Scott. She was watching us (Catholics) hit our knees as the priest walked by holding the Host. It dawned on her, “All these people really do believe that this is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ”.

She was faced with the idea that it was either or:

either this WAS the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ

OR

She was witnessing a great evil, one that had ensnared her husband Scott, because all these people were WORSHIPING THAT HOST…they were not merely kneeling to it in symbolic supplication…they were WORSHIPING it.

You are faced with that same dilemna, Ryan L. Wife (and my dear sister in Christ). For 2 thousand years, Catholic Christians have been WORSHIPING that Host. We have been accused of cannibalism. We have been stoned. We have been beaten. We have been dragged through the streets. We have been raped. We have been murdered and we have literally thrown our bodies in front of that Host in attempts to protect it. So we have been either practicing a GREAT EVIL for 2 thousand years OR

That is the Body, Blood Soul and Divinity of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

[mercygate]

TinaK:

I know how you feel. I’m Lutheran and the one of the hardest things for me has been the feeling of betrayal towards my church, my beloved pastor, and my family. Sometimes I think I could convert; the next minute I think “Never”. Most of the time I find I’m not really Lutheran and not really Catholic but some sort of weird hybrid in the middle. When things get really bad (confusion+uncertainty= :whacky: ) I read “Story of a Soul.” I’ve learned a lot about patience from St. Therese. Then I sit back and watch my synod self-destruct and everything I’m familiar with start to disappear. (I just realized, maybe God wants me to witness this so I know that there is a visible church

You are blessed to have the husband you do. Mine was baptized Catholic but never brought up in the Church, so we have different views of church membership. My dh is Lutheran (joined my church when we got married) but he is very content to stick his head in the sand and pew-sit, whereas I watch everything that goes on in our church and synod. (It’s being of German-Lutheran descent, that’s what’s wrong with me.) Appreciate the fact that you even have someone to go to Mass with. I’m on my own or with two kids (a 3 year old and 4 month old).

Ever read “Rome Sweet Home”? It is excellent. As for me, I’ve been reading a lot of carmelites lately. I think conversion takes a lot of patience and the saints of Carmel seem to have a lot of that. I just finally got brave enough to mention to my pastor my leanings toward Rome, so I’ll see where that goes. More waiting :whacky:

TinaK

Tina – I can’t tell you how this touched me. I LOVED my Church; I was educated to be a priest in the Episcopal Church . . . nothing has been more painful to me than watching the Anglican Communion self-destruct. That is not why I became Catholic, but realizing that my “house” had burned down, and realizing that I could not rebuild it gave me the ability to leave.

I believe Mrs. Ryan is in a different position. But your story stopped me in my tracks.

Many of us converts have nothing but beautiful feelings and memories of the churches in which we first came to know Christ. It is a greater conviction which brings us to Rome; a broader truth; a deeper commitment to things greater than our selves and our own personal preferences. But that doesn’t make it easy!

 

[RyanL_s_Wife]

Church Militant:

Hi!
It’s so nice to finally meet you! Your hubby is one of my very favorite people on this form and a Catholic who knows his faith. You must be someone very special if he married you…not to mention making him a very lucky guy.

The Catholic Home Study Service offers a series of excellent Catholic studies that are designed to help folks who want to get to know more about what the Catholic Church teaches and why.
I strongly recommend that you start with either the one called “We Believe…” or “We Worship…”

Church Militant,
Hi, nice to meet you too. Ryan speaks very highly of you as well. And, yes, we are both very luck to have found one another. Totally a God thing…neither of us can take credit for that one. But I am definitely thankful it happened.

As for the Catholic Home study, Ryan has already ordered “We Worship” But just between you and me…I don’t think it is sitting in the bathroom for HIS reading pleasure…if you know what I mean. So maybe I will pick it up next time I am in there.

Thanks again for your kind words,

RyanL’s Wife