Is there hope for me even though I am not Roman Catholic?

[J_C]

Thank you FCEGM, I almost said the same thing last night but thought maybe I am alone in my reaction to whatis, so did not say it. Many here have spent huge amounts of time trying to reason with him, yet he just goes on and on with these booring posts trying to “witness” his oversimplified brand of religion. It is clear to me that he is here only to scavenge for converts rather than to learn anything about Catholicism.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi jmcrae, I am so sorry that you had to see the past two posts by FCEGM and J_C reacting to the sincere prayer I offered you.

May I ask you to forgive them.

I do not believe they understand as to the reason as to why I am here.

Thank you and God bless you

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi all, the reason I am here is out of curiosity.
It is an opportunity for me to share beliefs with Catholics in order to seek and understand the core of the reason as to why there has always been a strife between Catholics and “protestants”.

As a former Catholic I never understood the reason why the misunderstanding especially in the area of salvation. I always believed if you were not Catholic, God would not accept you into heaven. However, I never was comfortable with it.

I would always wonder in the back of my mind…
Was there something I am missing?
A question that went unanswered for a long time.

It was not until I left the Catholic church of the first 30 years of my life that I found out not “what I am missing” but "who I am missing"

From being here, I found out there is still confusion within the Catholic community as to who and/or who can not be saved within and outside the Catholic church.

Sure enough I got one of the answers I was seeking when God led me to jmcrae in the beginning of January on another thread.

jmcrae responded to me to just about to the exact same question
I asked here.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3179518&postcount=105

Here was my two responses back.

I will always treasure her response because she said something that made me realize that my curiosity to come here was actually God’s calling.

I thank God for jmcrae.

Here were my two posts back to her.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3181711&postcount=106
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3182396&postcount=107

then take a look at the remainder of the thread.
Do you see a common problem?

I believe that thread and this one highlights the unfortunate misunderstanding of God’s wonderful gift of salvation between us Christians.

Let’s face a fact,

Nobody wants to go to hell for eternity

I know we can all agree on that.

But when it comes to heaven, I believe it is only the non Catholic Christians who claim to know how to get thier for sure.
i. e., we can know for sure, by faith, that if we die in our sleep tonight, we will wake up in heaven for eternity. Thank you Jesus.

That belief is solely based on the promise and overwelming grace of God who loved you and I and everyone else in the world so so so much, that he sacrificed His Son Jesus to take the punishment for our sin. And it is only by the blood of Jesus which forgives and washes our sins away.

And God said, when one sincerely repent and confess to Him and believe in, by faith according to HIS WORD, (not whatisthetruth’s word), and places thier trust in Jesus, and accept Him as Lord and Saviour of thier life thier sins are forgiven and are saved from the fires of hell.

A most generous gift from God.

When it comes to salvation we are so close in our beliefs as I found out from my conversation with CalmDownWisWins

whatisthetruth

BTW, I now believe that salvation can only be found through Jesus Christ.
No church, prayer, person or book can save a soul.
Even just believing Jesus does not save you.
I believe, believing in Jesus is evidence of the faithful and there is a big difference between believing and believing in Jesus Christ.

I believe, the resouces I listed, help in directing the “path” to salvation, but I believe the only way to be saved is first by faith in Jesus Christ and then act according to God’s word as evidence of that faith.

CalmDownWisWins replied,

WOW! That’s exactly what I believe too!

As wonderful a gift from God that eternal life is, unfortunately, thier seems to be a major misunderstanding that Christians may have a, “Once Saved Always Saved” mentality, meaning you can sin and not have to worry because God is merciful and will forgive you anyway.

If any Christian lives thier spiritual life this way, in NO way do I believe he/she is living according to the will of God.

I get the feeling, and I could be wrong, that misunderstandings about salvation between Christians have tainted the wonderful gift of eternal life, (John 3:16), God is offering us.

I believe, when salvation is accepted from God with the right sincere faithful heart, the promise of eternal life in heaven is a most valued gift anyone can have.

On behalf of the non Catholic Christian family, I want to say our heart bleeds for Catholics because they do not share in that same joy of salvation we do, again when accepted with the right sincere faithful heart which I have no doubt many Catholics do have, especially the ones I met here at CAF:thumbsup: .

That, my friends I believe, is one of the foundation of our passion of salvation and not that we are trying to convert you away from Catholism. Any doubts on my intent, please see my signature.

May God bless you all

truth

 

[jmcrae]

We’ve always been under Grace. You’ve always had free will. It’s by Grace that we have Jesus. Grace has existed since Jesus died on the cross. I think you’re a little younger than that.

No, Christ’s grace didn’t begin to apply to me until after I was baptized; before that, we are creatures made in the image of God, but not related to God as sons and daughters, yet.

We are all born into Original Sin; it is only through the Sacrametns of the Church that we are brought into a relationship with God.

So are you telling me the only time you sin then is unintentionally?? You commit no intentional sins?? If you answer yes to that, I’d say you were lying. No judgement intended. But you would in fact be lying which of course is a sin.

Actually I quite often sin on purpose, out of convenience, and for other unworthy reasons.

Brother you don’t even know your own doctrines. The Roman Catholic Church does not hold the belief that non-Roman Catholics have no salvation. Read your catechisms. We are separated bretheren in an “imperfect” I believe the word is communion with Rome.

this means that you are partially in the Church - which means that you are not outside the Church, where there is no salvation to be had. Everyone who has any kind of a relationship with Jesus is at least partially in the Church.

I made the point that a non-believer potentially after reading the Bible may decide to get saved.

On what basis? The phrase “get saved” does not appear in the Bible anywhere, nor is there any kind of lone-ranger style of “sinner’s prayer” listed there - the means of salvation indicated by the Scriptures is to be baptized and become a member of the Church.

Let’s say an atheist comes to you and says “Excuse me Mr. JMCRAE, I’ve never read the Bible and I’m an atheist. I see you have a copy. I’m really interested in meeting this GOD of the Bible and Jesus his son. May I please read your copy and then ask for your help in the areas I don’t understand.??”

No, I would not make him read the Bible all by himself, to begin with. Instead, I would bring him to an Inquiry Group, and introduce him to the principles of the Gospel in an orderly fashion, building concept upon concept in a logical way that can easily be understood, in the context of a faith community whose mission is to help him with anything and everything that he might need in his journey to Christ. He would use a Bible, but he would be directed in his use of the Bible at the beginning, so that he would be able to find things that he is interested in knowing about right away, instead of trying to read the whole thing all in one go.

And also, I would not spend “all night” with him - I would spend two years with him, or as long as he needed to take. I would not expect him to be able to understand the whole Bible or the whole Gospel in just one night.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

…
Maybe its because my Mama was an English teacher, and I grew up around the need to define terms. Maybe its because my great-grandmother & I used to speak only [Holland] Dutch to each other when I was a little girl, and I never knew that, until I was grown up, & told my grandmother that “I wish I had learned some Dutch from Granma while she was still here with us”, and she looked at e, and said, “But you** did**!!”…

My Granzilla was a one-room-scoolhouse teacher back in the “long ago and far far away”, and so english was rather important to get right. Though I was the only one in the family that actually developed a “seeming-psychosis” about my language use!

Not quite sure why that is, but that’s not relevant right a the moment.

The way that people can be divided by a common language is pretty amazing. Sometimes I think we’d be better off if having a religion different from others made us speak entirely different languages, so that we’d not make so many unconscious assumptions.

Then again, that “cure” might be worse than the “disease”, so it’s probably best that things are as they are. Heh he he he…

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Now consider this,

you go to confession.
you say an act of contrition and repent and confess your sin/s through your priest before God
your priest give you penance
you pray your penance
you say “Amen”

Right there after saying “Amen”,
don’t you feel prepared should God call you right there at the altar?
(you do not even have a chance to get up off your knees)

I do feel prepared in that I’ve done what needs doing to get absolution from Jesus in persona Christi presbytera (OK my latin sucks!) for my sins, but my actual “preparation” of myself so as to want Jesus more than I want that which would soothe my panic at being separated from my mortal body is questionable, in my mind, which I admit I need badly to work on. I can only leave it to God to have mercy on me that I’ve “prepared” myself enough to allow myself to receive His help to fight my panic and do what I do know is best for me, which is to choose Him.

I am waiting for the first Catholic to tell me something I never felt as a Catholic. I never thought about dying because I was young.
So I never fully absorbed the grace He wanted to give me.

CalmDownWisWins I know you do not believe this, but I believe if a sinner says a sincere confession before God and repents, and again ONLY God knows ones heart, He will honor His word and forgive and forget the sin just as if the sin was never commit.
This is why I believe His grace is so AMAZING

Some people believe that we needn’t establish a habit of being “good” throughout life because by one simple sincere reconcilitation (confession) we HAVE chosen God, and will be saved.

Some people believe that we need to establish the habit of being “good” thoughout life because the trauma of our death is such that our habits will be fallen-back-on at that time, and unless we are in the habit of letting-go of our self-condemnation, due to holding onto our sins, and falling-into God’s mercy regardless of our commited, even if technically forgiven, sins, we will panic and habitually cling to our “comforts” (that which made us comfortable in life) and be dragged with them to hell.

The first belief is that confession IS the choice of God over self-comfort, which God will honor. The second belief is that well formed habit disposes one to choose wisely, which when our time comes panic does not upset.

I personally am of the latter opinion, where no one confession is necessarily sufficient to save us. It MAY be sufficient, but to persume it is is to take a monumental risk.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

However, I am confused

If I were to come back to Catholic church, If there was anytime
I would feel completely forgiven by the grace of God is at that point immediately following my confession, repentance and penance.

If I did not feel that or be able to take joy in my salvation at that point, then there must be a unconfessed sin I am trying to hide from God.

You are completely forgiven your sins by absolution. At least as much as you are sincere about wanting forgiveness from. You are forgiven.

But you are NOT there saved, at that point, because salvation DOES NOT HAPPEN until your end!

You SHOULD take joy in your being forgiven, but you can’t take joy in something that you haven’t gotten yet. Namely salvation.

We are promised salvation if we endure to the end in faith. We have the hope of salvation if we try to do as are told by God. We don’t HAVE salvation until we HAVE salvation which we don’t HAVE until we HAVE it at our end, and not before.

We can revel in our joy of having a promise and having a means and having the increasing likelyhood of salvation, but the joy of having salvation, of being saved, is for the saints, being mercifully cleansed of their minor, and other, imperfections at heaven’s gate and in heaven’s perfection itself, alone.

That is what differentiates the joy of the heavenly from the joy of the heaven bound.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
You realize, though, that it does not, right? It is a love letter to His Bride the Church; not to random individuals. Jesus is not “your personal” (or anybody’s “personal”) Saviour - He is the Saviour of the Church. If you are in the Church, whether visibly, by being a member in good standing, or invisibly by being ignorant of the fact that you must be a member of the Church (which is what is being saved) but would want to be if you had only known of it, then you are saved; if not, then no.

This really is confusing. You’re saying if I’m a visible member or an invisible member, I’m saved.

• Visibly a member: by being a member in good standing.
• Invisibly a member: by being ignorant of the fact that you must be a member of the Church (which is what is being saved) but would want to be if you had only known of it.

“Invincible Ignorance”

How can I be an invisible member of the church if I’m ignorant to it’s existence. Let alone be saved.

All men are in some way members of the Body of Christ (the Church [Catholic]), and they vary in their degree of communion with her.

Invisible members are those who are not visible members. Non-members are those who know that they could be visible members and consciously choose not to be.

Also when did Jesus not become our personal savior?? I would agree that HE’s not just MY personal Savior.

Jesus is the savior of that portion of mankind who chooses Him, which we know as the Church (the Body of Christ). If one chooses NOT to be a member of that portion of mankind, then one has chosen Jesus to not be one’s savior.

Jesus is your personal savior only if you choose to be a member of His people, the Body of Christ His Church (Catholic).

What does “personal” mean in the phrase “personal savior”? How can our savior NOT be personal, as what is SAVED is our PERSON?

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

One last point. The Bible is not a love letter from GOD to the church. The Bible is a love letter (using the terminology from the thread) from GOD to whoever picks it up and reads it.

Once again, you confuse “a mass of individuals as individuals” with “the Church which is the Body of Christ”.

One writes a love letter to someone/some-group beloved who returns that love.

If you write a love letter to your beloved family with whom you have an ongoing relationship of reciprocated love, does that mean that you’ve also written it to one who doesn’t love you?

They may, upon reading it, decide that they’d like to be a member of your family, but you didn’t write it to them assuming that they already loved you.

An atheist can pick up the Bible and read it. Are you suggesting that GOD only wants the church to read it?

Firstly, only the Church CAN read it and interpret that reading correctly. If one is not a member of the Church, one has no way to figure out what it means in any depth!

Anyone CAN read it, but those who are outside the Church are capable of only guessing at it’s true meanings, and at being curious enough of what they have to seek out the Church for correct interpretation, which hopefully draws them into the family that is the Church.

How ridiculous is that Brother?? If an Atheist or anyone (believer/non-believer) picks up the Bible, reads it, and then truly finds GOD and Jesus or, becomes closer to GOD and Jesus, then it might as well say

To: (insert name of reader)
Love GOD. I’m glad you found ME or got closer to ME.

They can’t truly find God without the Church, as they can make no sense of the bible without the Church and without understanding what the Church knows of God they can’t understand, aka “find”, God.

The correct lost/found-label should be:

To: Whomever found this.
Please take to my Church for interpretation of this beauty. It’d be great to have you in my family. Love, God.

 

[rinnie]

If i can break in here what i beleive the point she they are trying to get across to you, and correct me if im wrong is this. Another way of seeing it. There were 2 man beside Jesus when he died. The one said hey buddy help me out. If you are who you say you are save me and yourself. Get me out of this. See that guy was never sorry and could Jesus have done that heck yea. But see Jesus wouldnt that guy kept taunting him. Like the bible says dont test Jesus. It wont work dont threaten him and ask for signs. Forget it. Now the other guy said hey leave the poor guy alone. He said, he didnt do anything, All he ever did was try to help people. We deserve to die. We are guilty, see that man repented him said ill take this death. I deserve it. But then he said Jesus Remember me when you go into your Kingdom. See the difference he believed anyone who could do what Jesus did and then be willing to die for others sins had to be good. Had to be God. He saw the truth. Because he was Good. And thats why he was forgiven. The other guy even on his death bed did not accept Jesus. He was still evil. But see thats the difference. Not all people are going to see the truth. Now if you were brought up Catholic and turned your back on the faith, thats your choice. But in the same token you were taught the truth. God showed you the truth from the beginning (i dont know how long you were catholic) But you know right from wrong. Other people who have never really learned the faith, dont understand it and dont see it. So if they condem the Catholic Faith they dont realize what they are doing. But for us who do know it and were Blessed with the Grace to see it, Well thats when we will pay for our sins. Thats when Jesus will say I showed you the truth you refused to lisen. Read it its in the bible. find it. Thats when you will realize it. But see to say a person who is Catholic is the only ones who can go to heaven thats not what the bible says. If a person is protestant and just cant see the faith the way we do, God understands that. Some people just dont see it. But we do. But if a protestant lives his faith the best of his ability thats the best he can do. Then in GOds eyes he also lived hes faith the way we are. All we can do is show him what we see. Its Gods grace after that. Not ours. Do you see what i mean. But the bottom line is live the ten commandments. Thats it. But remember we know what our religion tells us thats what counts. We will pay for our sins no one elses. thats all we have to worry about.

 

[rinnie]

Okay one last point here is why I believe that we cannot interpret the bible. Black and White which i say i need to see it that way. Go to acts 8 28-40. Especially 31. Read it reread it read it again. In king James the only difference I see between it and the Catholic version is the word guide one says guide one says instruct. But same thing. Again every I was ever taught in the Catholic Faith is in there. You just have to ask God to help you find it. It may take a minute it may take years. Now to me if that doesnt say we cant do it ourselves nothing ever will. There are many answers out there we dont know yet. We just have to find them. But keep reading the bible Yes. and teach what we know Yes. But we must have to know it before we can teach it… THats why i dont know it all. BUt what i do i try to share. Thats all i can do.

 

[Philthy]

Hi all, the reason I am here is out of curiosity.

This is not entirely true - certainly not under the alleged topic of the thread “Is there hope for me?” - as you dont question your own salvation. You never got around to responding to my last post on this topic…

As a former Catholic I never understood the reason why the misunderstanding especially in the area of salvation. I always believed if you were not Catholic, God would not accept you into heaven. However, I never was comfortable with it.

In all fairness, you need to start admitting that when you “were Catholic” that you didnt know your faith particularly well and that you never bothered to consult what the Church actually teaches on these subjects.

I would always wonder in the back of my mind…
Was there something I am missing?
A question that went unanswered for a long time.

Yes - it went unanswered because you did nothing to answer it - be honest.

It was not until I left the Catholic church of the first 30 years of my life that I found out not “what I am missing” but **“who I am missing” **

Here you seem to imply that it was only through leaving the Catholic Church that you could discover it’s not a “what” but a “whom” that you were missing. Are you saying that the Catholic Church PREVENTED you from finding this out? If so, you remain in denial about your own personal failing with regard to learning your Catholic faith and bear false witness against the Church rather than confronting your own failings.
Do you really think the topic of “who” vs “what” has not been reflected on by the Church? Here is a quote from this weeks lesson of a Catholic course I lead for fathers.
The question is, “What is the most important truth about the Catholic moral life?” And the answer given is…“The moral life is following - walking with - a person, Jesus Christ.” My point? Your judgements of Catholicism and its limitations are blurred by your inability to recognize that you were not a very Catholic. Certainly other Catholics bear some of the responsibility for that, but so do you. Knowing that, you need to stop judging Catholicism through the lens of “yourself” because it only leads you to false conclusions about the Catholic faith and individual Catholics.

From being here, I found out there is still confusion within the Catholic community as to who and/or who can not be saved within and outside the Catholic church.

Tell me one article of faith that does not have some level of confusion in any Christian community and perhaps your comment above would then be meaningful. Otherwise it is pretty meaningless. One thing we all agree on: our personal opinions do not constitute infallible proclamations.

But when it comes to heaven, I believe it is only the non Catholic Christians who claim to know how to get thier for sure.
i. e., we can know for sure, by faith, that if we die in our sleep tonight, we will wake up in heaven for eternity. Thank you Jesus.

Two things:
First: These “non-Catholic Christians” who know FOR SURE that they would go to heaven if they die “right now” ; Does anyone actually know whether those that have died have actually gone to heaven, FOR SURE? The answer is no, know one knows. Interestingly, only the Catholic Church proclaims Saints.
Secondly, the term to know “for sure by faith” is, in fact, a contridiction of terms.

That belief is solely based on the promise…

And here again you contradict yourself: is it a BELIEF or is it an ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY??? Its impossible to BELIEVE in something that you KNOW. Belief is the inclination to regard as true those things which you do NOT know for certain - you dont seem to recognize the difference.

As wonderful a gift from God that eternal life is, unfortunately, thier seems to be a major misunderstanding that Christians may have a, “Once Saved Always Saved” mentality, meaning you can sin and not have to worry because God is merciful and will forgive you anyway.

Well you yourself said that if you “confess to Him and believe in HIS WORD by faith that you will be saved from the fires of hell” -
do you believe that even after confessing and believing that it is possible to be condemned to the fires of Hell? Yes or No, first please - then you may elaborate.

On behalf of the non Catholic Christian family, I want to say our heart bleeds for Catholics because they do not share in that same joy of salvation we do…

Wow - I will have to trust that you didnt mean to say all of what you actually said…are you now judging the level of joy of the entire Catholic Church? Perhaps a little presumptious wouldnt you say?

May God bless you all
truth

Thanks truth - and may God bless you and your loved ones also. I am not trying to be overly critical of you in my posting. Im remaining true to my promise to be honest in understanding one another and that honesty involves pointing out the many inconsistencies of your posts. It does not speak to the purity of heart which prompted your writing them. :yup:

 

[whatisthetruth]

bump

Hi all, I have some bad news.
Then again it might be good news for some.

Just to let you know CalmDownWisWins stated on another thread after quoting one of my statements,

I would not accept anything this person has to say as meaningful.

And here is how I responded. thank you all for your time we had.

Why CalmDownWisWins, is attacking easier than trying to understand.

Lets attack and start a false rumor about another one of those “Protestants” than try to understand him.

Oops I am sorry CalmDownWisWins, please forgive me. I just called you, a Christian, a liar and falsely accused you.

CalmDownWisWins it is totally against my nature to judge anyone as a liar and I did just that.

Please forgive me.

So let me comment on what you said because you always tell the truth especially about “protestants”

Hi all, since CalmDownWisWins has suggested from his heart

"not to

accept anything I have to say as meaningful" I have regretably made a decision that I wish I did not have to make.

Since, I can not be sure CalmDownWisWins has you second guessing anything I post from this point forward, I have decided to post anything more on any thread at CAF.

I will not waste my time expressing my heart, if you are not going to believe what I write anyway.

**So, why should I post? **

Congratulations, CalmDownWisWins, you have you wish.

**I AM DONE.

PERIOD!!!**

Are you happy CalmDownWisWins?
How are you feeling right now?

** ?

?

?

?

:clapping: ?

:banghead: ? **

If I sound a little hurt, you dang right I am.
I am so sorry it came down to this.

BTW CalmDownWisWins, no need to apologize to me, I forgive you for hurting me.

But I got bad news, I can not clear the pain you caused against God by hurting me. I pray that He accepts your sincere confession.

I really **do not care **at this point if you believe I mean it.

I am so wrong in venting but maybe this is what it will take to get my message across.

Then again,

I am just a “protestant”
Why should you care?.

Maybe by seeing the hurt first hand, might be cause for some to start caring about this nonsense between the Catholics and the “protestants”.

As some are welcoming me home to Christ’s one true church,
others are like CalmDownWisWins.

Why should I come back if what I say has no meaning to you?
Is that thaught about me going to change overnight should I walk through your door tomorrow?

Who believes in thier heart of hearts I feel God’s love right now?

Oh God, please forgive me. Of all I said above,
I am so sorry God, but you know my hurt.
I ask forgiveness of you all at CAF for lashing out.
I am sorry. For any pain I just caused by anything I said here or anywhere else.
In no way do I set out to hurt anyone.

I feel guilty in asking this but,

If by chance you are one who valued our conversation and you have any question of me or thaught you like to share I invite you to PM.

I will gladly communicate with you in PM if you are sincere.

If you do nothing else, may I ask you to read the following.
“My Signature Letter”

Even though CalmDownWisWins does not believe it, it would mean a lot to me if just one of you believes anything I wrote and let me know, please…thank you.

I ask of you as a Christian brother/sister just that one small favor.

To most of you, thank you again for sharing your thaughts, beliefs and most important love with me while I was here on the threads.

For the most part It has been a wonderful visit.
I may come back to the threads, but for now,
thanks to CalmDownWisWins, (BTW may God bless you too),
it is not a good idea to post again for a while.

One day I might understand, why you were compelled to do that CalmDownWisWins, God only knows.

God bless you all

truth

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

…

Same reply to this “cut and paste” nonsense as in that other thread.

Best to you, mon frere.

 

[jmcrae]

Whatis;

You have been hurt, and a relationship has been destroyed.

Do you really think (getting back to our previous conversation) that praying a prayer like the one that you gave me to pray for the friend that I hurt when I was young, could cause this hurt in you to go away?

Now that you are on the other side of the fence, are you now seeing why a little wishful thinking is not enough?

Do you now understand why I will have to go to Purgatory, to cleanse the hurt that I did to my friend, before I can go to Heaven?

Because I hurt my friend a great deal more than Wiswins did to you. He made a thoughtless remark; I did more than that to my friend.

 

[Rocky]

I find it interesting that Whatisthetruth chooses to reply to Calmdownwiswin’s statement on another thread and then *posts it here, *instead of replying to Philthy, who respectfully challenged Whatisthetruth. I guess it is easier to run away. Whatisthetruth is and has been in my prayers.

 

[jmcrae]

I find it interesting that Whatisthetruth chooses to reply to Calmdownwiswin’s statement on another thread and then *posts it here, *instead of replying to Philthy, who respectfully challenged Whatisthetruth. I guess it is easier to run away. Whatisthetruth is and has been in my prayers.

Yes, I just realized that he posted the same thing on several threads.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

As some are welcoming me home to Christ’s one true church,
others are like CalmDownWisWins.

I have been doing nothing BUT trying to infom you of the benefits for you more fully being within the Church than you are now, and am very much welcoming you into that state!

I’m also accepting no more of your purposeful “non-understanding” which you use simply to self-agrandize yourself as a “unifying prophet” who has a “special knowledge”, a gnosis, with which we NEED to fully accept on your word, as the “church of Whatis” is the one true church which shall unify the world and you are it’s prophet.

Pointing out error to some people is very painful to the recipient, and is very “interpersonally dangerous” to those who bear that news. I choose to be rather blunt, much of the time, as getting to the base “problem” is more important in this particular venue (a forum!) than the chance of people losing interest before the point has been gotten to, and wandering off without edification.

Sometimes, quite often in fact, that is seen as rude, especially by protestants who are in the survival-based habit of glossing over differences by choosing “niceness” to “truth” because of the derth of truth in their various traditions.

You may believe what you wish about me, as I’ve a very thick skin, and I hope that the truths which you’ve learned here will one day blossom into a need to further look into the Church as your best source of truth and means of final salvation.

I also hope that others here have learned something from our interaction, as I have.

Will I be less “rude”? Most probably not.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi jmcrae, after seeing your post, I was led to answer in respect of you and of your question to me.

Whatis;

You have been hurt, and a relationship has been destroyed.

Thank you for your sensitivity

Do you really think (getting back to our previous conversation) that praying a prayer like the one that you gave me to pray for the friend that I hurt when I was young, could cause this hurt in you to go away?

I hope you believe me in what I am going to answer.

First, I offer you my apology. Even though I sensed a hurt from that previous conversation, it was wrong for me to post the prayer on the thread without FIRST asking you permission on the thread or in PM. I realize that there is a good chance that the way I said the prayer may not have been the way you pray as a Catholic. I fell short of being sensitive to that, I ask you to forgive me.

to answer your question, the prayer itself did not make the hurt in me go away.
However, while saying a prayer like the one I gave you, I opened up my heart to God and through the sincerity of the words of the prayer plus the fact I opened my heart and trust in God to receive HIs forgiving grace that the hurt I felt last night is water under the bridge, all forgotten.

I kinda relate the prayer to a wedding vow.

“to honor and to cherish”

Just words that is all they are.

But when the words are exchanged between an engaged couple on thier wedding day, they are not just words anymore.

the bride and groom open up thier heart and trust to each other and now those same words “to honor and to cherish” are quite powerful in meaning.

I hope that helped.

Now that you are on the other side of the fence, are you now seeing why a little wishful thinking is not enough?

In all due respect jmcrae, I trust God in His word, I am not doing any wishful thinking, I have already said the prayer and opened my heart to God, and He released me from any pain I felt last night, thank you Jesus. all is forgiven and forgotten.
I even let Calm know in the thread I forgave him, I just needed to take a stand and let Him know I was not going to be his “punching bag”

So here we are and the incident never happened as far as I am concerned.

Do you now understand why I will have to go to Purgatory, to cleanse the hurt that I did to my friend, before I can go to Heaven?

jmcrae, I do not know the nature of that pain, it is not for me to know.

however i want to let you know of my own pain I had as a kid. When I was young I did terrible harm to my brother 6 years younger. I was very jealous and today at 50 yrs old, if we say Hi to each other we said a lot. Yea, I beat him terrribly when I was young.

but today, I am free of all that hurt thanks be to God.
My brother is an adult, if he does not want to get together so be it.
My door is always open to him. I am patiently waiting.

Getting back to you, I understand that you believe in purgatory and why you do and the purpose for purgatory. I went to Catholic church too

If you sense a but coming thier is,

I also believe when the good thief died on that cross next to Jesus, all his sins of the past, all the pain he caused people from stealing from them all that was forgiven and forgotten by Jesus.

That thief went to “sleep” with an absolute clean white as fresh fallen snow soul.

Could you imagine for a second the feeling the thief had knowing for sue he would wake up in eternity in heaven.

Why?? Because he trusted in Jesus and made a faith commitment to Him right there on the cross, believed and trusted in Him, repented and confessed. and Jesus gave the thief His word of eternal life

What Jesus did in Person on the cross, He most certainly can do spiritually. That is what I believe.

By the Grace of God I was freed from all the pain I caused my brother and yes I had apologized to him too,

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy.

I(Jesus) have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. John 10:10

jmcrae, the enemy wants to rob you of the freedom of that pain of your past.

Jesus released me of the pain of my past, I believe He will do the same for you.

Please do not trust me what I say,

**trust God in what He said. **

Because I hurt my friend a great deal more than Wiswins did to you. He made a thoughtless remark; I did more than that to my friend.

I have no doubt the hurt you caused your friend is greater than the pain caused by a remark

Do you believe it is a great deal more than Jesus can free you of right now if you ask him?

How awesome would it be if, by His devine Grace and healing power, release you from that pain of the past?

I do not believe anything is too great for Jesus.

But what matters is what you believe.

God blessyou,

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi all,

My apologies all about the other night.

After prayer and reflection and by the good grace of God, as far as I am concerned the other night did not happen.

I do have some catching up to do, however.

I ask your patience.
If you posted to me and I have not answered it,
May you do me a favor and PM the post # so I do not overlook it,
thank you

truth