Is there hope for the Novus Ordo?

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Dear friends,

I know that very slowly, but surely, the Tridentine Latin Mass is making a come back. Some Dioceses are responding better than others, but that’s okay. Anyway, here’s my problem.

Is there any hope for the Novus Ordo? For example, like many traditional Catholics, my busy schedule many a time does not allow me to attend a Tridentine Latin Mass. Thus, I must attend the closest Novus Ordo. And a couple I’ve been to are just HORRIBLE. Now, in New York where I am, it’s not that bad. But I remember when I went to Hawaii not too long ago, and the Ordinary Form of the Mass was UNBELIEVABLE. Every single liturgical abuse you could think of, they were doing.

But there are reverent Novus Ordo Masses, right? I mean, just because several parishes are terrible, that doesn’t mean that they’re all like that?

Your response would be greatly appreciated.
 
There are reverent Novus Ordo masses. I guess you just have to keep looking, and pray for a reverent mass.

There is always hope.
 
They’re not all bad near me either. Thank the Lord. 🙂 And I’ll bet that having the competition of the Latin Mass around will help even more. Competition has many uses. 😉
 
BritishCatholic said:
Dear friends,

I know that very slowly, but surely, the Tridentine Latin Mass is making a come back. Some Dioceses are responding better than others, but that’s okay. Anyway, here’s my problem.

Is there any hope for the Novus Ordo? For example, like many traditional Catholics, my busy schedule many a time does not allow me to attend a Tridentine Latin Mass. Thus, I must attend the closest Novus Ordo. And a couple I’ve been to are just HORRIBLE. Now, in New York where I am, it’s not that bad. But I remember when I went to Hawaii not too long ago, and the Ordinary Form of the Mass was UNBELIEVABLE. Every single liturgical abuse you could think of, they were doing.

But there are reverent Novus Ordo Masses, right? I mean, just because several parishes are terrible, that doesn’t mean that they’re all like that?

Your response would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi British, If you rather not give the Hawaii Church, But can tell on what Island?
I live on Kauai & have attended Mass in 3 parishes and there were a couple of abuses, but I do pray our bishop will take steps to stop any abuse!
Mahalo!
 
I’ve been to some very irreverent NO Masses here in the Diocese that I live in. In fact, as I’ve been around these United States, this Diocese is the worst I’ve experienced for liturgical abuses.

Yet we discovered the newest parish here in our state that is about 15 minutes away. The priest is young (can’t be over 35) and he is on fire with the Faith. He is trying to get a real church built as we worship in an old office building. We even say the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei in Latin.

So just keep looking around.
 
BritishCatholic said:
Dear friends,

I know that very slowly, but surely, the Tridentine Latin Mass is making a come back. Some Dioceses are responding better than others, but that’s okay. Anyway, here’s my problem.

Is there any hope for the Novus Ordo? For example, like many traditional Catholics, my busy schedule many a time does not allow me to attend a Tridentine Latin Mass. Thus, I must attend the closest Novus Ordo. And a couple I’ve been to are just HORRIBLE. Now, in New York where I am, it’s not that bad. But I remember when I went to Hawaii not too long ago, and the Ordinary Form of the Mass was UNBELIEVABLE. Every single liturgical abuse you could think of, they were doing.

But there are reverent Novus Ordo Masses, right? I mean, just because several parishes are terrible, that doesn’t mean that they’re all like that?

Your response would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Yes there are reverent Pauline Rites Mases. I’m going to one in about five minutes. But they are not the norm and never have been. The problem with the Pauline Rite is that in many cases, not all by any means, but in many what you are going to see is basically a crapshoot. Sorry but i don’t know how else to word it. I mean no disrespect. But its hit or miss… You don’t know what you are going to get. It could be reverent or it could be clap happy anything goes affair. You might have Gregorian chant or you might have Hip Hop. You might have Christ referred to as the savior or as our homie. You may have a good reverent homily that actually teaches something or expands on a liturgical principle or you could have, as I did on Christmas Midnight Mass, a sermon that focused on Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. I kid you not.

Is there hope? sure there is. There is really nothing intrinsically wrong with the Rite itself. It is the way in which it is celebrated. Thats the main reason I think the Holy Father did what he did. He knows the offending Priests will have to change and change fast once people learn what they have truly been missing in the name of participation, unification, political correctness and inclusiveness.

If there was no need for the Traditional Mass, I truly believe the Holy father and John Paul II of blessed memory would have let it die. They didn’t, it didn’t and it is growing by leaps and bounds.
 
BritishCatholic said:
Dear friends,

I know that very slowly, but surely, the Tridentine Latin Mass is making a come back. Some Dioceses are responding better than others, but that’s okay. Anyway, here’s my problem.

Is there any hope for the Novus Ordo? For example, like many traditional Catholics, my busy schedule many a time does not allow me to attend a Tridentine Latin Mass. Thus, I must attend the closest Novus Ordo. And a couple I’ve been to are just HORRIBLE. Now, in New York where I am, it’s not that bad. But I remember when I went to Hawaii not too long ago, and the Ordinary Form of the Mass was UNBELIEVABLE. Every single liturgical abuse you could think of, they were doing.

But there are reverent Novus Ordo Masses, right? I mean, just because several parishes are terrible, that doesn’t mean that they’re all like that?

Your response would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...
Actually, there is nothing wrong with the NO masses. It is all a matter of personal perspective. No two masses are the same due to local differences worldwide. You are missing the point if you only go there to point out “liturgical abuse” after “liturgical abuse”. People receive spirituality in different ways. Some prefer the older ways, some connected better with more modern interpretations. Neither way is wrong. You can get just as much grace from a modern NO as any TLM.
 
NewUlm1976_2000 said:
Actually, there is nothing wrong with the NO masses. It is all a matter of personal perspective. No two masses are the same due to local differences worldwide. You are missing the point if you only go there to point out “liturgical abuse” after “liturgical abuse”. People receive spirituality in different ways. Some prefer the older ways, some connected better with more modern interpretations. Neither way is wrong. You can get just as much grace from a modern NO as any TLM.
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Not quite. There are some really abusive NO masses out there among them are the clown mass, the Barney mass and there are others to be pointed out. I went to a Diocese NO that was very bad, now yes some can be good. TLM is better, imho.
 
palmas85 said:
Yes there are reverent Pauline Rites Mases. I’m going to one in about five minutes. But they are not the norm and never have been.

.
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I think that must depend on where you are. In my diocese there have been some strange things, particularly in suburban areas. Some priests are nutty and politicize Masses. Some think they need to have “childrens’ Masses” that are like something out of Sesame Street. But by and large, the Masses around here are reverent, and pretty much have been these 40 years.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I think that must depend on where you are. In my diocese there have been some strange things, particularly in suburban areas. Some priests are nutty and politicize Masses. Some think they need to have “childrens’ Masses” that are like something out of Sesame Street. But by and large, the Masses around here are reverent, and pretty much have been these 40 years.
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It may very well depend on where you are. I will not dispute that. However. I have travelled quite extensively since the mid to late 60’s and have heard Mass in a lot of places, more than most here would probably imagine.

Believe me the truly reverent ones are few and far between. Now that being said, the situation has gotten immeasurably better than it was in the 70’s and early to mid 80’s when things overall were truly horrendous.

I have seen in the past several years more of an eye towards the rubrics and the proper way of doing things rather than making the Priest the center of attention or as happens in not a few places merely an observer while the laity carries out his duties.

As I said, you really never know what you are going to get, and that my friend is a big big problem
 
I think you’ll find the New York area to be abit more on the traditional side than say Hawaii is, so in that respect, geographically your in the right place.

But I do think that paishoners should take the bull by the horns so to speak, and join your local parish council if their are things you don’t like about mass or abuses. Make your voice heard, and get others that feel the same way to get involved to. I think sometimes parish priests try things or do things with good intentions, because their parishoners seem to like it, and attendence is good, but in reality they may not like it, but they keep their mouths shut.

We now have a Pope with traditional leanings. Put your voice with his and try to change your Churchs ways. Point out to your Church what the Pope is saying these days, and try to use what he says as the impetus for change.

We shouldn’t have to shop around for the right church…
 
In my hometown (Worms, Germany), you can have on one saturday evening/sunday morning no less than nine reverent NO masses without liturgical abuses and very reverently said (unless you count “no headcovering anywhere” or “female servers/lectors” as abuses :rolleyes: ) .

Not counted are those churches that would take more than 15 minutes per pedes from the city center 😉

But we consider ourselves happy here. I spent a weekend in Berlin recently and oh no… can’t talk about that mass! Fulfilled every presentiment about liturgical abuses anybody might have (ok, no liturgical dances).
 
If you have to go to a NO Mass in a place you’ve never been, do yourself a favor–leave your GIRM in the narthex. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Period. If you’re too annoyed still, don’t go back.

John
 
As usual, there is a great disdain for the Ordinary Form of the Mass by some here. It would not matter if it celebrated properly, they will still see it as a “clown” Mass. It is because of this I have only been to one EF Mass and that was by mistake (I should of gone to Noon Mass instead of 9:30 Mass)

My parish is an excellent example of the Ordinary Form being celebrated properly:

  1. *]Said Ad Orientum.
    *]Chant is often used for the Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei (priest dependent)
    *]Latin is used (again priest dependent) for the Eucharistic Prayers.
    *]Only organ music except for the occasional “Orchestral Mass” which uses symphonic instruments.
    *]Communion on the tongue at the altar rail.
    *]Exclusive use of Altar Boys.
    The parish also has an Extraordinary Form Mass on weekdays and Sundays.
 
Wander you are the lucky one of the group. The church near me is usually pretty good on celebrating the mass correctly, though they are still bent on throwing in the Folk group that you want to scream. With the unofficial songwriters of the Pauline rite, Haugen and Haas. I have also had a priest go up and talk at length about Global warming and try to link the Pope with Al Gore and mentioned the Bush administration. In all respects to the Priest, Who Cares! The Homily should stick with The Readings and a few notes on something similar, not Kumbayah. There are so many widespread abuses in the NO that people have grown very dissatisfied. There are too many options and loopholes.
 
WanderAimlessly said:
As usual, there is a great disdain for the Ordinary Form of the Mass by some here. It would not matter if it celebrated properly, they will still see it as a “clown” Mass. It is because of this I have only been to one EF Mass and that was by mistake (I should of gone to Noon Mass instead of 9:30 Mass)

My parish is an excellent example of the Ordinary Form being celebrated properly:


  1. *]Said Ad Orientum.
    *]Chant is often used for the Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei (priest dependent)
    *]Latin is used (again priest dependent) for the Eucharistic Prayers.
    *]Only organ music except for the occasional “Orchestral Mass” which uses symphonic instruments.
    *]Communion on the tongue at the altar rail.
    *]Exclusive use of Altar Boys.
    The parish also has an Extraordinary Form Mass on weekdays and Sundays.
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  1. How much disdain do you think there would be for the OF of the mass if the vast majority of Catholics had OF masses like the ones celebrated at Assumption Grotto???!!! :confused:

    Really, for many of us, we are not fleeing to the EF but away from our horrible, abusive OF masses.

    If I had an OF mass like you have,*** trust me,*** I would not be looking elsewhere.
 
tcraig said:
Really, for many of us, we are not fleeing to the EF but away from our horrible, abusive OF masses.
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And here the MP was issued because folks claimed an ‘affection’ and ‘attachment’ to TLM when it appears it is really just a port in the storm to run to.
 
WanderAimlessly said:
As usual, there is a great disdain for the Ordinary Form of the Mass by some here. It would not matter if it celebrated properly, they will still see it as a “clown” Mass. It is because of this I have only been to one EF Mass and that was by mistake (I should of gone to Noon Mass instead of 9:30 Mass)
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“Some” being the word that needs to be stressed.
Most have no problem with the OF when celebrated according to the Rubrics.
WanderAimlessly said:
My parish is an excellent example of the Ordinary Form being celebrated properly:

  1. *]Said Ad Orientum.
    *]Chant is often used for the Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei (priest dependent)
    *]Latin is used (again priest dependent) for the Eucharistic Prayers.
    *]Only organ music except for the occasional “Orchestral Mass” which uses symphonic instruments.
    *]Communion on the tongue at the altar rail.
    *]Exclusive use of Altar Boys.
    The parish also has an Extraordinary Form Mass on weekdays and Sundays.
Click to expand...

  1. Parishes like Grotto are few and far between. And therefore it would be a bit unfair to compare it to lets say the large suburban parish in central Ohio that I belong to now wouldn’t it?

    At Mass I have to deal with a small army of EMHCs (of course they are referred to as “Eucharistic Ministers”) receiving before or at the same time as the priest. And glass chalices are used because “Cardinal Arinze specifically says in Redemptionis Sacramentum that glass is supposed to be used”.

    The prayers are often ad-libbed and reworded. There have been lay people giving what amount to homilies on how St. Paul was sexist and therefore Ephesians 5 can be disregarded.

    And things like this are so common that they seem to be the norm. I am not even asking for any sense of reverence at Mass anymore. It doesn’t matter that Gregorian chant should be the norm and that “Latin” and “incense” should not be dirty words. I am not even asking for these things. I just want a Mass according to the rubrics.

    It is not fair to compare Grotto to the typical parish and then complain when people complain about the abuses in their parish.
 
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