Is there justice in Hell?

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Charlemagne_II

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The 19th century writer Robert Ingersoll said:

“… what I really want to do is to destroy the idea of eternal punishment. That doctrine subverts all ideas of justice… I think of all doctrines it is the most infinitely infamous, and would disgrace the lowest savage, and any man who believes it, and has imagination enough to understand it: has the heart of a serpent and the conscience of a hyena.”

Agree or disagree?
 
In Biblical Basis for Purgatory it says:
To believe in Purgatory is to believe in the Catholic understanding of sin, redemption, grace, and judgement. This means that purgatory is a dogma of the Catholic Faith. Unfortunately, many Catholics don’t believe in or understand purgatory…God refines His children in the fire of His love so that they can fully attain to the joys of Heaven. God perfects us for our own benefit, not His. As they say, “No Pain, No Gain.” Thru the pain of Purgatory, we gain the bliss of Heaven.
Without purgatory, not only would those of us with unfinished spiritual business be unable to enjoy heaven, we wouldn’t make it there in the first place.

The word “Purgatory” comes from the Latin purgare which means to purge, purify, or make clean.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
The 19th century writer Robert Ingersoll said:

“… what I really want to do is to destroy the idea of eternal punishment. That doctrine subverts all ideas of justice… I think of all doctrines it is the most infinitely infamous, and would disgrace the lowest savage, and any man who believes it, and has imagination enough to understand it: has the heart of a serpent and the conscience of a hyena.”

Agree or disagree?
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Charley:

I don’t think of Hell as a “place for justice,” i.e., " eternal punishment." Rather, I think of it as God granting one’s wishes. If one wishes not to be with Him, to be separate from Him, then, so be it. Why - I was going to say, “on earth,” but that would be stupid - in heaven would God wish to look forever on a face that will never show contentment to be with Him?

God bless,
jd
 
in heaven would God wish to look forever on a face that will never show contentment to be with Him?

👍

Yes; if one chooses the eternity of hell, what right does one have to complain just because it is eternal?
 
While I don’t understand why God would have a hell rather than just having the person non-existing after death (like the jews believe), I guess if its justice for God then it is in my eyes.

It does sound rather harsh, but the thing is that, people are choosing to go there. Honestly they get a free ticket to heaven by accepting Jesus and living a moral lifestyle. It’s the best deal/gift that a person can ever receive.
 
Depends on the POV you look at it from. If you were treated with evil your whole life by people that choose to be immoral, and, or don’t care. Then it might be considered justice by that person that was tormented in this life to finally have the tables flipped and the weight lifted of the shoulders, and put on the tormentors for all eternity, then yes there is justice. but from another person who wasn’t tormented is that it is very saddening to see these people be lost. 😦
 
Charlemagne_II said:
in heaven would God wish to look forever on a face that will never show contentment to be with Him?

👍

Yes; if one chooses the eternity of hell, what right does one have to complain just because it is eternal?
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Exactly. None.

God bless,
jd
 
feed_me said:
Depends on the POV you look at it from. If you were treated with evil your whole life by people that choose to be immoral, and, or don’t care. Then it might be considered justice by that person that was tormented in this life to finally have the tables flipped and the weight lifted of the shoulders, and put on the tormentors for all eternity, then yes there is justice. but from another person who wasn’t tormented is that it is very saddening to see these people be lost. 😦
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FM:

Precisely. “Justice” is for those left behind. It’s a tough job to overcome feelings like that - if they ever could be overcome.

God bless,
jd
 
That’s a really odd question, because hell is the justice imposed usually when a soul is trying to avoid justice.

The mass murderer or evil tyrant who commits suicide to avoid confronting his accusers or victims is trying to avoid justice in this life, so it may be that eternal damnation is the sentence imposed in their next life.

Their hatred of God and all that is good, is what condemns them to eternal suffering. IF they love evil then they will have all eternity to embrace it. By hating the infinitely good, they are accepting the infinitely evil. By rejecting God’s infinte mercy, they are accepting their own fate.
 
PumpkinSeed said:
While I don’t understand why God would have a hell rather than just having the person non-existing after death (like the jews believe), I guess if its justice for God then it is in my eyes.

It does sound rather harsh, but the thing is that, people are choosing to go there. Honestly they get a free ticket to heaven by accepting Jesus and living a moral lifestyle. It’s the best deal/gift that a person can ever receive.
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Because God is bound by logic and reason. He is perfect, and thus can not be illogical.

He chose to grant us an immortal soul. Once we have an immortal soul, He can’t make it “un-immortal” for those that reject him.

If He were to do so, He would be violating our free will, just as if He only created those souls he knew would accept him. That would be akin to Calvinistic Pre-Detestination.

I’d also like to add that not all the damned experience the torments of Hell to the same degree. Punishment varies depending on the sins of the damned. The logical extension of this is the theological hypothesis of Limbo Infantum, where those with only original sin, but no actual sin, suffer no torments at all, but are naturally happy, but deprived of the Beatific Vision.

God Bless
 
the question sounds like asking if there is justice in prison… maybe the question should ask, is Hell a fair sentence (or just sentence) ?

It is hard to imagine anything that warrants eternal punishment, but some folks have done some very horrific things. Jesus tells us the merciful will receive mercy. Folks who treat others harsely will receive like judgement. It seems every day somewhere in the news people are pretty brutal and mans inhumanity to others knows no bounds.

The horrors perpetrated in Ruanda, and more recently in Somalia, makes you think, yes, there are souls in Hell and they deserve to be there, otherwise there would be no justice in the universe.
 
PumpkinSeed said:
While I don’t understand why God would have a hell rather than just having the person non-existing after death (like the jews believe), I guess if its justice for God then it is in my eyes.
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God is the Creator not the Destroyer. If we are made in His image we cannot become non-existent!

And even if we could we would never have the opportunity to repent…
 
PumpkinSeed said:
While I don’t understand why God would have a hell rather than just having the person non-existing after death (like the jews believe), I guess if its justice for God then it is in my eyes.
Click to expand...
That’s also the kind of point that I was talking about when I said about unfair treatment in this life. Letting the abusers become non existent in the next life is like letting a criminal get away with horrible crimes. Yes, s/he may be non existent, but it’s like they “got” away with what horror they did. It would be unfair to you, wouldn’t it?
 
feed_me said:
That’s also the kind of point that I was talking about when I said about unfair treatment in this life. Letting the abusers become non existent in the next life is like letting a criminal get away with horrible crimes. Yes, s/he may be non existent, but it’s like they “got” away with what horror they did. It would be unfair to you, wouldn’t it?
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Yet if that same abuser repented of his sins and found salvation a split second before he died and before he faced any justice on Earth then he would still not be fair to us. Just the same is if he was non existant, but worse, because he’s in Heaven. Something being unfair doesn’t change how true, or not true, it is.
 
Evi

**Yet if that same abuser repented of his sins and found salvation a split second before he died and before he faced any justice on Earth then he would still not be fair to us. Just the same is if he was non existant, but worse, because he’s in Heaven. Something being unfair doesn’t change how true, or not true, it is. **

You need to study Catholic theology more carefully. Even the sinner who repents of horrible crimes can be saved. But then there’s purgatory to suffer for those crimes. So it’s not as if he gets a free pass.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Evi

**Yet if that same abuser repented of his sins and found salvation a split second before he died and before he faced any justice on Earth then he would still not be fair to us. Just the same is if he was non existant, but worse, because he’s in Heaven. Something being unfair doesn’t change how true, or not true, it is. **

You need to study Catholic theology more carefully. Even the sinner who repents of horrible crimes can be saved. But then there’s purgatory to suffer for those crimes. So it’s not as if he gets a free pass.
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My apologies for the mistake, I take back what I said. Spent too much time around Baptists lately.
 
Evi

**My apologies for the mistake, I take back what I said. Spent too much time around Baptists lately. **

It’s common for Protestants not to underestimate how complex Catholic theology is. It must seem very “ornate” compared to the simplicity of just reading the Bible.
 
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