Is There No End To These People?

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No I am not Catholic. But does that matter? Are we all not trying to attain the same thing, eternal life with our Father in heaven? Will God seperate us from what denomination we are in this world? Will God seperate us from Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, etc? I think not! No, I believe not! I believe in God my Father, Jesus His son and the Spirit all 3 in one. I refuse to believe that being a Catholic or Lutheran or Baptist is the only way to heaven. It is only through Jesus Christ. I refuse to believe Catholic rituals, Lutheran seperation, Baptist spiritualism or Pentecostal mind blowing routines are the way to heaven.

What does it matter if I am Catholic or not? Is the Catholic religion the benchmark of Christianity? Is this how I rate myself and my faith? Is this what decides my eternal life in heaven, hell or purgatory or where else people believe souls may go?

I have been wrestling with my faith for a long time. Not believing in Jesus but what a building does for it. I am not sure where me being a Catholic made a difference.

I know what the first poster’s words were. I was at the first service. There was pizza, wings and bull riding. The night ended with a 7 minute sermon taking all that we saw that night and put it in perspective. How is life not like riding a mechanical bull? Are you perfect? Have you never been bucked off?

Why has no one responded my question about one of your own priests defending what a Methodist church is doing?
 
If you are saying that they are doing things like the TOT, at a bar, then there is nothing wrong with that as far as I am concerned.
However, if you are saying that this is their Church and that is their Church service, well hey, I do see somthing wrong with that.
I am Catholic and I believe that Jesus only founded one Church and I don’t think it had anything to do with going to bars for a Church service.
As a Catholic, I don’t even call it a service, it is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
That is why I asked if you were Catholic, why not go to a Catholic Mass sometime and see what difference you see and hear and notice? Because if you don’t see the difference between TOT and a Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, then there is something seriously wrong. That is why I said any faithful Catholic would know the difference.
 
ddp,
The Catholic Mass is not like a Baptist or non-denom service where the preacher just talks for an hour and people praise Jesus or whatever. The mass is a liturgically-based re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice at Calvary which culminates with Holy Communion. We do have something analogous to the Protestant sermon, called the “homily,” but it is not the point or the focus of the mass. This is why you have been asked if you are Catholic, since you seem confused as to why Catholics see a difference between a church “service” and a simple discussion group. The reason is that the two are nothing alike. A bar is an inappropriate setting for the mass, to say the least. But a bar is a fine place for an informal discussion about theology.
 
I have been to a Catholic Mass. Many of them in fact. My mom’s side of the family is mostly all Catholic. There are many things in Catholicism that I do not agree with as with many other denominations but I will not say that my denomination is perfect either. I am sorry if I misread you.

What you may see as a “holy” service may not be so “holy” to someone else. That is a whole other topic though.

I understand the meaning of holy to different denominations. I also understand that Jesus meets us where we are at. He does not wait for us to attain a certain level of maturity to love us. He loves us even in our darkest, dirtiest hours. I have seen Him in my own. Does that mean He cannot meet or won’t meet us in a bar? He turned water in wine at a wedding and made that a most holy of a story in the Bible. I mean, His first miracle! Don’t you think there was so much more to it than just producing wine. They were having some rowdy fun I suspect.

See, this is what confuses me so much. There is so much bickering going on in the world on who is wrong and right than who will just “Go”. Jesus did some pretty radical things that were against modern beliefs and practices in His time. The disciples were pretty radical about things too. They went into places knowing they were going to be persecuted.

As should all of us. Whether it is in a bar, at a ballgame, feeding homeless (wow, if you have never served a drunk or high person while talking Jesus, give it a shot sometime. Nothing like the Pub) or hanging at Walmart.

Where 2 or more gather… that just keeps ringing in my head.
 
ddp said:
I have been to a Catholic Mass. Many of them in fact. My mom’s side of the family is mostly all Catholic. There are many things in Catholicism that I do not agree with as with many other denominations but I will not say that my denomination is perfect either. I am sorry if I misread you.

That’s alright, perhaps I wasn’t real clear either. We also don’t call ourselves a denomination but The Church. I am sorry you don’t agree with a lot of things, but perhaps hanging around here will help clarify some of those things for you too.🙂

What you may see as a “holy” service may not be so “holy” to someone else. That is a whole other topic though.

I’m sure that is true for some also.

I understand the meaning of holy to different denominations. I also understand that Jesus meets us where we are at. He does not wait for us to attain a certain level of maturity to love us. He loves us even in our darkest, dirtiest hours. I have seen Him in my own. Does that mean He cannot meet or won’t meet us in a bar? He turned water in wine at a wedding and made that a most holy of a story in the Bible. I mean, His first miracle! Don’t you think there was so much more to it than just producing wine. They were having some rowdy fun I suspect.

I understand a lot about different denominations also. Definately agree with what you say about Jesus loving us right where we are, however, I believe He doesn’t want us to stay right where we are, in a bar or otherwise, spiritually speaking.
I am also sure that His first miracle was so much more than just producing wine.

See, this is what confuses me so much. There is so much bickering going on in the world on who is wrong and right than who will just “Go”. Jesus did some pretty radical things that were against modern beliefs and practices in His time. The disciples were pretty radical about things too. They went into places knowing they were going to be persecuted.

I also agree with you on this point.
At the end of the Mass we are sent out. (As you say, to just “go”).

As should all of us. Whether it is in a bar, at a ballgame, feeding homeless (wow, if you have never served a drunk or high person while talking Jesus, give it a shot sometime. Nothing like the Pub) or hanging at Walmart.

Agree with this also, although I don’t know if they were drunk or high though, I suppose some of them could have been though, I never really thought about that before.

Where 2 or more gather… that just keeps ringing in my head.
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There is love. God is love.👍
 
This is the most insightful conversation I have ever had on this with anyone. Thank you allhers for taking the time to chat with me on this. This what I think everyone should do instead of beating each other’s heads against each other.

None of may ever agree on CRC as a church but I think we can all agree that it is a place where Jesus can be discussed and taught (eventually a discussion teaches us all). I think if we all learned to live outside of our own boxes and not conform to the world we will do more good than harm in the world. I think we can learn from each other.

Maybe it all comes down to our calling in life. My call? I am a dad who works in an IT department that volunteers time to the youth our church and have my own mission called Hands of Hope. I always thought mine would be “more” in the sense of a pastoral avenue. Nope. God wants me where I am to do what He wants me to now. Maybe that changes later in life. I think He wants us to live for today because we may be gone tomorrow. Learning how to die is probably a better phrase.

Maybe CRC and TOT is His way of getting Him out of the church steeples more. Neither of them is probably perfectly doing His plan but don’t you think they are inevitably His plan none the less?

Once again, thanks for your thoughts and patience with someone who does not do a lot of message boards and kind of went outside my own box by doing so.

PS. I believe CRC’s hope is not for people to stay at a bar to worship but eventually get them to start attending service without pushing them over a cliff to do so. That is how I came back to Christ… not by someone pushing or scarring me into it but leading me to meet Jesus in a way I have not before. By myself.
 
I would like to know who ‘these people’ the OP is referring to. Is it protestants in general or is it a certain type?

Just curious…
 
I think the OP is referring to anyone who turns what should be sacred (i.e. worship) into something profane (i.e. worship at a “branch of the church”, a bar).
 
allhers said:
There is a world of difference between TOT and Mass. It is not a bad thing, TOT, what is ridiclous is to think that it is a Mass, let no one get the two confused. I think any good, faithful Catholic would know the difference.
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I’d imagine a C&E Catholic would manage to figure it out with little trouble:)
 
DDP, Here is the problem IMO and i could be wrong. But this is how I feel, yes talking about Jesus is wonderful but, when you mix beer, women and men, i think Jesus is gong to fade out. Here is why give a man a few beers, loosen him up and then let one of us women walk by, now I could be wrong but i think no matter how good the sermon is when we walk by he is going to be quite distracted. Like i said i see nothing wrong with going into a bar, my husband and I go in, have a drink and get dinner quite often, But I always make him walk in first, I hate to walk in first the way guys stare at you. Now if i was in the walmart they would not stare quite as bad. See what I mean, a few beers can really loosen up some people. Now i could see them obeying the commandment Love thy neighbor quite well, but breaking thy shall not hit on thy neighbors wife if you know what i mean. Now this is just what I have seen in the past, give a man a beer, set a women beside him you have trouble. Trust me ive had men tell me all my life you are beautiful, and i tell them oh keep drinking i get even more beautiful with every beer. See what i mean! Trust me, again i have no trouble with a bar for married couples but only if they go together and can control themselves. But lets face it a man or women going to a bar is how most couples get in trouble. IMO you put a man beer, and a women you got a better chance of the Devil winning than God. Again Just my Opinion.
 
rinnie, your post reminded me of something that a man I know use to say:
“Put a beer on my right and a woman on my left and I’ll go the right way every time.”😃 He liked his beer and loved his wife.
 
If you mean to tell me that it takes a few beers to notice a nice looking woman then you must have been sheltered. I remember being single and going to church to find a good looking God fearing woman. Those are just natural feelings that in certain times in life you just cannot control. I think that is reaching far, far out on why not to have something in a bar.

But discussing Jesus with beer (not a service or mass) and having the temptation is ok? Like with TOT? I cannot buy it.

Still waiting on comments from the article I published. No one seems to want to comment about that…
 
ddp said:
So talking about Jesus over a beer and having someone do a 5-7 minute sermonette is different? This is where I get confused. How does this differ? Here is how we have fun… get on a bull (sometimes), karaoke, little games that you can win prizes. I have seen all of this in a church before.
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Not during Mass, though - I hope!
So the beer flows differently when just talking about theology than listening to it?
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Forgive me for maybe being naive but this is a double standard to me. This is what KEEPS people from going to a “church”.
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There would be no children allowed to go to this “bar church” I would think, right? So, right there, it couldn’t take the place of a Catholic Mass, because children have to go to Mass just like adults do. If they made Mass into a bar, the children wouldn’t be allowed to go, because they are under 21.

Theology on Tap is for people from ages 21 to 35, and usually takes place on a weekday evening. Theology on Tap is optional, but Mass is required for everyone who has been baptized.
 
I guess what my point really is alchol can change alot of peoples disposition. It will weaken your senses. How many people will say if i wasnt drinking I would have never done that. I just feel that when you go to mass, you should be 100% in a state of mind to give total respect to our Lord. He deserves it. And IMO to drink and carry on in a bar just isnt paying true respect to our Lord. And also the most important part of mass is the Eucharist and I cant see getting that in any bar. But hey just my opinion, for what its worth, (thats way its free).
 
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