Is there no evidence that the Pope did any wrong doing?

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On a previous thread, I asked if there was proof the Pope was innocent. I’m sorry for mixing up the legal system and yes, I do know it’s innocent until proven guilty. All I’m going to say is;:o

Now I’m going to segue into my question; is there no evidence that the Pope is guilty of covering sex abuse cases? Dawkins wants to have him arrested and I have been really angry about that. If there is no evidence or proof, the courts can’t do anything. Now then, has there been any evidence that would suggest he covered it up? If there is none, we have huge malpractice in the media.
 
Gift_from_God said:
If there is none, we have huge malpractice in the media.
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😃 I think it’s safe to say we have had “huge malpractice in the media” for quite some time.

And no, there has of yet been no evidence presented that the Pope knowingly covered anything up. Amazing, isn’t it, how the Leftist media will take a story and run, with no foundation, just because it serves an anti-Christian, anti-Catholic agenda. And they wonder why people have lost faith in journalism. :rolleyes:
 
What about the letter that the BBC was talking about the other day?

Something that Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger signed in 1985.

I think that someone on another thread posted a link to an article explaining what the letter was about, but I wish that Catholic websites weren’t the only sites that explained this side of things.

Is there a counter-argument against that link? I don’t have it on me right now but maybe some of you know what I’m talking about.
 
Sarah_Angel said:
What about the letter that the BBC was talking about the other day?

Something that Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger signed in 1985.

I think that someone on another thread posted a link to an article explaining what the letter was about, but I wish that Catholic websites weren’t the only sites that explained this side of things.

Is there a counter-argument against that link? I don’t have it on me right now but maybe some of you know what I’m talking about.
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Listen to Jimmy Akin explain how the letter was translated. Search the archives, I think it was the Thursday before Easter that Jimmy was talking about how it was improperly translated by the NYT.
 
I believe that il Papa did not knowingly cover up any cases of abuse. The charge isn’t about covering up, it has to do with delaying, being indecisive, and minimizing the potential risk to other children from just moving a questionable priest to another role or parish. In other words, there was no urgency, little concern for the children, and no real consequences to an abuser, whose access to children remained. In a delay of years, many children were affected. There was no haste, presumably because it wasn’t seen as a serious issue. Or because to Rome the timespan of one child’s life is so small, why hurry?

Technically “delay” isn’t a crime, but the delays allowed harm to flourish where it otherwise wouldn’t have in an environment of stricter rules and clear consequences.

In the meantime, I just read that, to date:

The Vatican has now reportedly spent between two and three billion dollars – that’s with a b – in legal fees and quiet reparations to the thousands of molested and abused. That’s just the current number. It will be growing exponentially, because the cases are nowhere near complete.

We should be aware that our offering money is going toward this, which means not as much to the poor and needy.

Even if we pray for the sinning priests, I think it’s outrageous that they should be allowed to keep their livelihoods at our expense.
 
vinessa said:
We should be aware that our offering money is going toward this, which means not as much to the poor and needy.

Even if we pray for the sinning priests, I think it’s outrageous that they should be allowed to keep their livelihoods at our expense.
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This is the part that drives me nuts! I stopped giving to the offering about 12 years ago, and decided instead to give it directly to charity. I didn’t want one cent going to protecting or defending this priests. The defense should come out of their own pockets, not that of the community they were supposed to be protecting in the first place! :mad:

I can’t believe I just admitted this out loud, about the offering money. But I can’t get past this part of it.

And furthermore, as someone who came to the Catholic Church not from birth, but out of love for it - I really really resent the carelessness by which these men who are assigned BY GOD to protect the sheep, have handled it. It is an affront to victims to be sure, but worse it has put the Church - a two thousand year old institution! - which was given us by Christ - in serious jeopardy. The audacity!!!

Sorry to rant, but I just am mind-boggled by the arrogance! 🤷

That being said, I still don’t believe the Pope did anything intentionally wrong. An attitude adjustment is in order, and it looks to be slowly happening at the Vatican. Not a moment too soon, if you ask me.
 
Apparently, my rant is not over. :eek: 😃

The thing that gets me, and I hope I can articulate it, is that supposedly all the covering up was to protect the Church (although I suspect it was more to protect someone’s buddies), and the very act of covering up has put the Church in enormous danger. Ironic - or maybe not. Just idiotic. :confused:
 
If this had happened in a Government department with a Western Nation, there’d be a full public inquiry.

I would hope the Vatican orders a full public inquiry into the affairs of the Church in relation to these matters. The inquiry would of course be monitored by outside parties to assure transparency, truth and fairness.
 
Portier said the church’s understanding of sex abuse moved through phases - from a moral issue that was a matter of confession, to a mental illness that required counseling, to a crime. He said the cases that have become public so far show Benedict acting according to the protocol at the time.
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Yes indeed. The church has always been a big proponent of moral relativism.
 
vinessa said:
In the meantime, I just read that, to date:
The Vatican has now reportedly spent between two and three billion dollars – that’s with a b – in legal fees and quiet reparations to the thousands of molested and abused. That’s just the current number. It will be growing exponentially, because the cases are nowhere near complete.
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Can you provide an attribution for that quote? Seems rather highly dubious to me. As I recall the entire annual Vatican budget is well under 1 billion dollars a year. People rarely realize what a shoestring operation the catholic church actually is. Most major universities have a larger annual operating budget. Sure we have 2,000 years of art and academic treasures built up in trust for all humanity. What are they supposed to do, auction it all at Sotheby’s so that only robber barons have access to the treasures of humanity?
 
Hereswith said:
This is the part that drives me nuts! I stopped giving to the offering about 12 years ago, and decided instead to give it directly to charity. I didn’t want one cent going to protecting or defending this priests. The defense should come out of their own pockets, not that of the community they were supposed to be protecting in the first place! :mad:

I can’t believe I just admitted this out loud, about the offering money. But I can’t get past this part of it.

And furthermore, as someone who came to the Catholic Church not from birth, but out of love for it - I really really resent the carelessness by which these men who are assigned BY GOD to protect the sheep, have handled it. It is an affront to victims to be sure, but worse it has put the Church - a two thousand year old institution! - which was given us by Christ - in serious jeopardy. The audacity!!!

Sorry to rant, but I just am mind-boggled by the arrogance! 🤷

That being said, I still don’t believe the Pope did anything intentionally wrong. An attitude adjustment is in order, and it looks to be slowly happening at the Vatican. Not a moment too soon, if you ask me.
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How would a priest, wrongly accused, expect to be able to afford legal assistance on his own salary? You say that it is his sole duty alone to find help? He could possibly ask the parishioners for a special fund for any legal backing he may request?
 
Evidence is grounds for a belief. Proof is the establishment of truth.

An accusation may be evidence to some, but it certainly is NOT proof of truth by itself. An accusation in bold front page headlines is certainly no proof although it is intended to paint a particular picture in the absence of the whole truth. Nor is an accusation that is repeated by many newspapers, magazines, radio and TV talk shows, blogs, etc., proof of truth.

And just because **A **becomes before B is no proof that A caused B.

And if I give you, say three letters (facts) such as D, G, and O, what are you to make of it? Does one conclude the proper relationship IS the word GOD, or DOG? Does one say, well there might be other missing letters that apply and the word could be GOOD or GROUND.

And what if I give you only the three letters D, G,and O and purposefully withhold the letters R, U and N. Am I not guilty of misleading you to thinking either GOD or DOG when I know the whole truth is the word GROUND? And, given all the letters, do we conclude it should be DOG RUN and perhaps RUN GOD, rather than GROUND?

We all do well to remember that ONE side of story is not the whole truth.

So, was this sex scandal badly mishandled in some dioceses? Yes.

BUT did Joseph, as a Cardinal in Germany more than 25 years ago, or in Rome for 20 years, or as POPE these past 5 years personally do anything wrong?

There is precious little evidence for that and certainly no PROOF.
 
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