Is there one true Church?

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BCven86

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I believe there is one, however I have been talking with some friends that are non-denominational and they believe there isn’t. They believe that objectively the trinity is God, however there is not one true path in following it. I found myself having a hard time articulating the argument that there is one true Church. Can somebody help me out?

Thanks,
Bob
 
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light. No one shall come to the Father except through Me." (paraphrasing).

Jesus built a Church. Not churches, but a Church. Paul preached constantly that the Church is One. Jesus prayed that the Church would remain one in Him, as He is in the Father. Jesus told the Apostles (the leaders of His Church), “He who rejects you, rejects, Me. And he who rejects Me, rejects the One who sent Me.…” (paraphrasing)

I don’t think it’s a stretch of the imagination at all to believe that Jesus wanted one true Church.

This is one of the first things your Non-Catholic brothers have to de-construct in order to consider themselves Christians, mind you.
 
What does the Creed say ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. How can you turn that around you cant.
 
One God!

One Truth!

Multiple non-Catholic Christian faiths don’t all believe in the same doctrine to some degree, though most do, just differ on the (t)raditions they follow. The requirement for Baptism comes to mind (google different Christian faiths and you will see) as a major difference upon various Christian denoms.

Maybe a better question would be,“why so many different types of Christian churches”? Why, when we have only One God who gave us One truth are there so many different Christian faiths?

In my humble opinion, best to stick with the Original Christ given Church.👍
 
I wouldn’t mount the barricades and come out swinging on this one. The evidence and reasoning is not a sound byte.

Start with God is One. Jesus is the Way, the Truth (not the “truths”), and the Life. He prayed to his Father “that they all might be one”.

Start them off with the idea that Christ’s Church IS already one based on that argument.

Then go to the history.

It won’t work because they MUST believe in an invisible “true” church with a plurality of manifestations. But you can lay the groundwork of the concept of a single “true” Church.
 
Yeah I got that far, of course they believe in the one church being the combination of denominations worldwide. I said that for a community of believers to be joined together into one community there are three things that are necessary: common belief, an executive board, and a figurehead (cited from a CA podcast: The Church, Visible and Authoritative). Also, I told him to look at the pre-reformation Church and explained how this is what the Church was until Luther destroyed that unity. He just couldn’t understand.

I guess maybe I did what I could?
 
BCven86 said:
Yeah I got that far, of course they believe in the one church being the combination of denominations worldwide. I said that for a community of believers to be joined together into one community there are three things that are necessary: common belief, an executive board, and a figurehead (cited from a CA podcast: The Church, Visible and Authoritative). Also, I told him to look at the pre-reformation Church and explained how this is what the Church was until Luther destroyed that unity. He just couldn’t understand.

I guess maybe I did what I could?
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Sounds like you’re doing fine. These things come in itsy-bitsy increments. You lead rather than shove. Overwhelming people with “clinching” arguments and massive documentation just smothers them and makes them want to run away.

I have become adept at the one liner, myself. E.g., in conversation with a Rapture believer who spoke of Christ coming on the last day, I asked him: “Which last day would that be?”

He good-naturedly replied: “Them’s fightin’ words.”

I just smiled. End of exchange.
 
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.There is one church. Not multiple ones. 🙂
 
MarcoPolo said:
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.There is one church. Not multiple ones. 🙂
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I know, I completely agree. What I would like to do is figure out what different protestant views on this passage are so that I can properly address them. One that I have heard in particular is that it was the faith of Peter that was getting commended… not Peter himself (I can’t really offer more details, I was kinda confused by their argument). Either way, does anyone have common Protestant interpretations of Matthew 16 and ways to deny them?

Thanks,
Bob
 
BCven86 said:
I know, I completely agree. What I would like to do is figure out what different protestant views on this passage are so that I can properly address them. One that I have heard in particular is that it was the faith of Peter that was getting commended… not Peter himself (I can’t really offer more details, I was kinda confused by their argument). Either way, does anyone have common Protestant interpretations of Matthew 16 and ways to deny them?

Thanks,
Bob
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Faith of Peter. Not Peter – is the usual claim. Catholics also acknoledge that it is Peter’s faith. We just don’t separate Peter from his Confession.

Another point they make is that Jesus means HIMSELF is “the rock”. That is grammatically indefensible but some will argue it. There are about a billion threads on these forums relating to that verse. Oh. Another argument is that “petra” means big rock and “petros” means little rock. That one is a complete fabrication that first showed up in the 19th Century. Search for posts by a guy here named Claudius. He’s formidable on the linguistics of that.

But first you have to have the kind of relationship with the people you are dealing with that will not have them slamming the door n your face before you even start.
 
mercygate said:
Faith of Peter. Not Peter – is the usual claim. Catholics also acknoledge that it is Peter’s faith. We just don’t separate Peter from his Confession.

Another point they make is that Jesus means HIMSELF is “the rock”. That is grammatically indefensible but some will argue it. There are about a billion threads on these forums relating to that verse. Oh. Another argument is that “petra” means big rock and “petros” means little rock. That one is a complete fabrication that first showed up in the 19th Century. Search for posts by a guy here named Claudius. He’s formidable on the linguistics of that.

But first you have to have the kind of relationship with the people you are dealing with that will not have them slamming the door n your face before you even start.
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Yeah I know, they’re friends and these discussions are completely motivated by a common search for objective truth, pride and other sentiments have not been an issue.
 
Ah yes, the seven contradictory churches of the One God.
I am for Paul…
I am for Apollo,…
 
BCven86 said:
Yeah I know, they’re friends and these discussions are completely motivated by a common search for objective truth, pride and other sentiments have not been an issue.
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That’s GREAT. One thing I find useful in discussing touchy issues with non-Catholics is to be very light handed. I preface things with “The Catholic view is . . .” “One of the things I love about being Catholic . . .” “We don’t make this stuff up! It isn’t based on Mt. 16:18 ALONE – there’s Luke 18, John 14, Mt. 28:20 . . .” then exit.

Saying, “we believe” or “the Catholic Church sees it this way . . .” is a lot gentler than saying: THIS IS THE TRUTH: TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT YOU BLIND, BLACK, HERETIC! :rolleyes:
 
mercygate said:
That’s GREAT. One thing I find useful in discussing touchy issues with non-Catholics is to be very light handed. I preface things with “The Catholic view is . . .” “One of the things I love about being Catholic . . .” “We don’t make this stuff up! It isn’t based on Mt. 16:18 ALONE – there’s Luke 18, John 14, Mt. 28:20 . . .” then exit.

Saying, “we believe” or “the Catholic Church sees it this way . . .” is a lot gentler than saying: THIS IS THE TRUTH: TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT YOU BLIND, BLACK, HERETIC! :rolleyes:
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I can believe peanut butter tastes like sardines. But that doesn’t make it true.

One God
One Church
One Salvation
One Eucharist
 
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mercygate:
Yeah I know, it is hard for me personally subjectifying my beliefs as I believe them to be objective… I do feel a hint of frustration when I have to preface any statement with “I believe…”. Of course, I do know this is necessary though 😦 .
 
The question to them would be, is there one God and did Jesus tell everyone to follow Him or whoever they want?

You have to bring it down to, does truth matter. Most non-denominational Christians will squirm on this and you don’t want to push too hard as they usually will just run away. Most people are not comfortable with hard truths these days and have a sort of wishy washy let everyone be kinda faith.

So come to them with a positive view, be more Christian than the fundamentalists, show a love in truth. Show a happiness that we are not just subject to interpretation but to putting the truth of Christ first.

Only Catholics can do this, and if this makes you uncomfortable feel free to PM me.

But show a love in truth and since many people use emotion first use that to connect to them then the truth will bring them to a place where they have to make some decisions.

In Christ
Scylla
 
BCven86 said:
I believe there is one, however I have been talking with some friends that are non-denominational and they believe there isn’t. They believe that objectively the trinity is God, however there is not one true path in following it. I found myself having a hard time articulating the argument that there is one true Church. Can somebody help me out?

Thanks,
Bob
Click to expand...

Jesus established His one true Church Himself during the incarnation.​

  1. Appointed Simon, (now Peter/Petra/the Rock), as the visible head of His Church.
*From the Gospel of St. Matthew 16:

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. *
  1. Jesus then gave Peter and the other Apostles the ability to carry out His own work here on earth
*From the Gospel of St. Matthew 16:

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

From the Gospel of St. John 20:

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. *
  1. Then…Jesus gave commanded them on what work they should do here on Earth:
*From the Gospel of St. Luke 22:

19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

From the Gospel of St. Matthew 28:

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

From the Gospel of St. Mark 16:

15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.*

Study and prayer on these passages helped open my eyes to the reality of His one Church.

Good place to start anyway. I’m sure you’ll get plenty of other good ideas as well.

Peace be with you.

Steven
 
scylla said:
The question to them would be, is there one God and did Jesus tell everyone to follow Him or whoever they want?

You have to bring it down to, does truth matter. Most non-denominational Christians will squirm on this and you don’t want to push too hard as they usually will just run away. Most people are not comfortable with hard truths these days and have a sort of wishy washy let everyone be kinda faith.

So come to them with a positive view, be more Christian than the fundamentalists, show a love in truth. Show a happiness that we are not just subject to interpretation but to putting the truth of Christ first.

Only Catholics can do this, and if this makes you uncomfortable feel free to PM me.

But show a love in truth and since many people use emotion first use that to connect to them then the truth will bring them to a place where they have to make some decisions.

In Christ
Scylla
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I am a huge advocate for objective truth, it is possibly the biggest reason why I am Catholic today and am continuing my own search for it.

This is pretty much what I have been doing: I’ll use the Socratic method and just keep asking questions about their own faith in order to break down their argument, always keeping the overarching theme of objective truth. I then present something that is objectively true (Catholic) and see how they argue against it. I figure if what I believe is truly objective, than there is nothing they can say that will be able to counter it.

Like I said, this is all done within the context of a conversation that is directed toward the search for the truth, so (in most cases) emotions don’t become an issue.

I agree that most tend to put emotions first; what they just don’t realize is that not only can you apply that emotional aspect to Catholicism, but you can combine it with the logical and reasonable parts as well.

Thanks,
Bob
 
StevenFrancis said:

Jesus established His one true Church Himself during the incarnation.​

  1. Appointed Simon, (now Peter/Petra/the Rock), as the visible head of His Church.
*From the Gospel of St. Matthew 16:

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. *
  1. Jesus then gave Peter and the other Apostles the ability to carry out His own work here on earth
*From the Gospel of St. Matthew 16:

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

From the Gospel of St. John 20:

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. *
  1. Then…Jesus gave commanded them on what work they should do here on Earth:
*From the Gospel of St. Luke 22:

19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”

From the Gospel of St. Matthew 28:

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

From the Gospel of St. Mark 16:

15 And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.*

Study and prayer on these passages helped open my eyes to the reality of His one Church.

Good place to start anyway. I’m sure you’ll get plenty of other good ideas as well.

Peace be with you.

Steven
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The biggest response that I have gotten on this end is that ‘We are all Apostles’, and that the call to be an Apostle is not limited to the 12. Any thoughts?
 
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