Is there really a rule

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faithfulservant

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i was told
It is forbidden to have a second image of the same saint in a church or chapel. No other statue of Mary will be permitted.
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while i understand that could be true on a long term basis (permanent statue placement) , i have to wonder about its validity for an hour long Mass.

we celebrated our great central function of the Legion of Mary on march 29th and i asked for a table on which we could set up our altar …which looks like this

http://www.legion-of-mary-houston.org/index_files/image3301.jpg

and would be set off to the side away from the sanctuary (not that we actually have an elevated sanctuary in our newly constructed Mary chapel)

every Legion of Mary function i have ever attended we have never had a problem with setting up the Legion altar

so what is the answer from my learned colleagues… have we been breaking the rule every other time, or is our director of worship just playing a little fast and loose here … any pertinent citing of Church documents pertaining to this question would be appreciated … thanks for the help
 
The only thing I’ve ever seen on this is from SACROSANCTUM CONCILIUM (Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy:
  1. The practice of placing sacred images in churches so that they may be venerated by the faithful is to be maintained. Nevertheless their number should be moderate and their relative positions should reflect right order. For otherwise they may create confusion among the Christian people and foster devotion of doubtful orthodoxy.
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I’ve never seen anything forbidding two statues of Mary.
 
thanks phemie…i suspect it is just our director of liturgy’s interpretation of something (although obviously wrong)…which is why i asked for documentation cites…to see how she made the wrong interpretation

i have asked her to explain to me why then, if that is the case, do we have a statue of our Lady of Guadalupe in what use to be our day chapel (which has now been converted to be part of the church proper), and we always bring out the beautiful image of the Immaculate Conception (which usually is in the reservation Chapel with the tabernacle) when we celebrate Solemnities of our Lady’s feast days…

seems to me a double standard is being applied there… it’s ok for them and not against the rules, but it is forbidden to us:mad:
 
faithfulservant said:
i was told
It is forbidden to have a second image of the same saint in a church or chapel. No other statue of Mary will be permitted.
Click to expand...
I would say it is up to the person claiming there is such a rule to show the documentation of it, rather than for you to show it does not exist. (But there are certainly many counter examples)

:twocents:
tee
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i have asked her to show me valid documentation regarding an issue before (the removal of the Corpus from the Crucifix for the 50 days of Easter) and her reply was (paraphrased here) “i don’t have time to spend searching the internet to find proof”

(in other words, how DARE you question my answer … even though i made it up and has no legitimate basis :bowdown: :ehh: )
 
Uh oh! My parish (100 years old next year) has 18 images of the Blessed Mother in the Sanctuary, along with numerous images of angels and saints.

:eek:
 
you mean in the nave… the actual space in the church … the sanctuary is just the area surrounding the altar… so it would get a little crowded up there…

but i understand your point… i have been told by others that they too have multiple images of our Lady

if i may ask, of the 18 that you have , are there any that are repeated/duplicated ?
 
faithfulservant said:
i was told

while i understand that could be true on a long term basis (permanent statue placement) , i have to wonder about its validity for an hour long Mass.

we celebrated our great central function of the Legion of Mary on march 29th and i asked for a table on which we could set up our altar …which looks like this

http://www.legion-of-mary-houston.org/index_files/image3301.jpg

and would be set off to the side away from the sanctuary (not that we actually have an elevated sanctuary in our newly constructed Mary chapel)

every Legion of Mary function i have ever attended we have never had a problem with setting up the Legion altar

so what is the answer from my learned colleagues… have we been breaking the rule every other time, or is our director of worship just playing a little fast and loose here … any pertinent citing of Church documents pertaining to this question would be appreciated … thanks for the help
Click to expand...
No nothing forbids two or even three images of any one saint, espicially if temporary. They should not over power everything else. I have seen a 12 foot statue of Mary (with lighted halo) in a little 100 seat church. The tabernacle was 1/5th the size of the statue?
 
tee_eff_em said:
I would say it is up to the person claiming there is such a rule to show the documentation of it, rather than for you to show it does not exist. (But there are certainly many counter examples)

:twocents:
tee
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How do you show something does not exist?
 
faithfulservant said:
i have asked her to show me valid documentation regarding an issue before (the removal of the Corpus from the Crucifix for the 50 days of Easter) and her reply was (paraphrased here) “i don’t have time to spend searching the internet to find proof”

(in other words, how DARE you question my answer … even though i made it up and has no legitimate basis :bowdown: :ehh: )
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We do not remove the corpus from the crucifix for the 50 days of Easter! What Crucifix is present on or near the altar during Mass? This is required.
 
well, i know that and you know that but apparently it doesn’t matter to them… because there is NO Crucifix … only the empty Cross … and nothing has been added to make up for it … but they have been doing it now for the last 7 or 8 years… this particular director of worship was not the one to institure the practice…but she has maintained it… perhaps at the bequest of the pastor… i’m really not sure
 
faithfulservant said:
well, i know that and you know that but apparently it doesn’t matter to them… because there is NO Crucifix … only the empty Cross … and nothing has been added to make up for it … but they have been doing it now for the last 7 or 8 years… this particular director of worship was not the one to institure the practice…but she has maintained it… perhaps at the bequest of the pastor… i’m really not sure
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Well Mass does not present the empty Cross to the Father, but the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross.
 
hehehe… would like the email address of our director of worship … i’m sure she would love to not answer your question or not reply to your comment either … she is good about that:rolleyes:
 
faithfulservant said:
hehehe… would like the email address of our director of worship … i’m sure she would love to not answer your question or not reply to your comment either … she is good about that:rolleyes:
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People usually do this because there is no answer or defense for what they are doing or not doing.
 
of course, if they can’t produce a church document allowing them to do what they are doing , then they would have to admit it is coming from them and NOT the Church … saving face is so very important among TPTB at a parish… especially those who like to flaunt their alleged “authority”
 
From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“318. … Thus, images of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the Saints, in accordance with the Church’s most ancient tradition, should be displayed for veneration by the faithful in sacred buildings and should be arranged so as to usher the faithful toward the mysteries of faith celebrated there. For this reason, care should be taken that their number not be increased indiscriminately, and that they be arranged in proper order so as not to distract the faithful’s attention from the celebration itself. There should usually be only one image of any given Saint. Generally speaking, in the ornamentation and arrangement of a church as far as images are concerned, provision should be made for the devotion of the entire community as well as for the beauty and dignity of the images.”

I have removed the footnotes from this and made part of it bold text.
 
john THANK YOU!!!

that is exactly what i was looking for … so with regard to my original post, it appears my director of worship has rendered her decision based on the most strict interpretation of what the GIRM says… and obviously completely disregarded the FACT that we would be in the church for a grand total of about an hour and a half
 
faithfulservant said:
john THANK YOU!!!

that is exactly what i was looking for … so with regard to my original post, it appears my director of worship has rendered her decision based on the most strict interpretation of what the GIRM says… and obviously completely disregarded the FACT that we would be in the church for a grand total of about an hour and a half
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Or - to say it another way - she is correct and you are not.
 
does the word “usually” have any significance to you paix? just curious

was her decision based on reasons other than what she found in the GIRM… obviously… otherwise why would we have two images of the Blessed Mother in the main church and it is OK to do that?
 
faithfulservant said:
does the word “usually” have any significance to you paix? just curious

was her decision based on reasons other than what she found in the GIRM… obviously… otherwise why would we have two images of the Blessed Mother in the main church and it is OK to do that?
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I think she is being a bit rediculous. We aren’t even talking about the main church, or even a liturgy. I think somebody is just on a power trip here.

What does your pastor think about this. Is he generally over the top on things? Or is it just this other person? Maybe you need to ask your Past or about it.
 
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