Is there such a thing as American Traditional Catholicism?

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henrikhank

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Laudetur Jesus Christus!
Does the “American Traditional Catholicism” exists? I mean, Traditional Catholicism with an American atitude. Well, from what I’ve seen it actually exists.
 
I shudder to think what an “Amercian attitude” at Mass might be.

I too think that it exists.

-Tim-
 
There is no such thing as “American Traditional Catholicism”. There is the Roman, or Latin Rite and the Eastern Rite with respect to the One True Church founded by Jesus Christ. Either of those Rites, even if they are practiced in the United States, can never be called “American” any more than there could be “Wisconsonian” or “Texan” or whatever Catholicism. It seems that when the Mass changed to the vernacular many people, especially those who felt it was acceptable to pick and choose what to follow with regard to the Magisterial teachings of the Church, felt that an acceptable rationale for their cafeteria approach had to do with ethnicity. “Oh, Rome just doesn’t understand how we do things in America”–thus the birth of the non-existent “American Catholic”, traditional and/or otherwise. A Roman Catholic is a Roman Catholic is a Roman Catholic. A cafeteria Catholic, one who feels justified in picking and choosing which teachings and doctrines to practice, is not a Catholic. By consciously denying the teachings of the Church one effectively excommunicates oneself. Only practicing Catholics may participate fully in the Sacraments without fear of offending God and mortally damaging their eternal souls.

I am so happy you asked this question. It shows you have a desire to more fully understand the facts.👍
 
Maureen_Brilla said:
There is no such thing as “American Traditional Catholicism”. There is the Roman, or Latin Rite and the Eastern Rite with respect to the One True Church founded by Jesus Christ. Either of those Rites, even if they are practiced in the United States, can never be called “American” any more than there could be “Wisconsonian” or “Texan” or whatever Catholicism. It seems that when the Mass changed to the vernacular many people, especially those who felt it was acceptable to pick and choose what to follow with regard to the Magisterial teachings of the Church, felt that an acceptable rationale for their cafeteria approach had to do with ethnicity. “Oh, Rome just doesn’t understand how we do things in America”–thus the birth of the non-existent “American Catholic”, traditional and/or otherwise. A Roman Catholic is a Roman Catholic is a Roman Catholic. A cafeteria Catholic, one who feels justified in picking and choosing which teachings and doctrines to practice, is not a Catholic. By consciously denying the teachings of the Church one effectively excommunicates oneself. Only practicing Catholics may participate fully in the Sacraments without fear of offending God and mortally damaging their eternal souls.

I am so happy you asked this question. It shows you have a desire to more fully understand the facts.👍
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But it is true, wouldn’t you say, that bishops in different countries do, when permitted, sometimes take different approaches to things like fasting and abstaining? So in that sense, I think there could be something that one might very loosely refer to as “American” Catholicism.
 
Maureen_Brilla said:
A cafeteria Catholic, one who feels justified in picking and choosing which teachings and doctrines to practice, is not a Catholic. By consciously denying the teachings of the Church one effectively excommunicates oneself. Only practicing Catholics may participate fully in the Sacraments without fear of offending God and mortally damaging their eternal souls.
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What I try to remember is that I don’t know God’s plan for anyone, let alone myself.

I try to always remember how God waited patiently for me - waited 43 years - all the time keeping me safe from harm, keeping me alive and safe in spite of my every attempt to kill myself through drugs, car wrecks, smaoking and drinking, and just general stupidity. I was bound in a lifestyle of habitual sin and I’m sure many looked at me this way - effectively self-excommunicated, not worthy of the sacraments, and damned to eternal Hell.

I remember in my mid-20’s, a woman I worked with and one of my former teachers from high school discussing my behavior right in front of me like I wasn’t even there. They were wagging their heads and saying that I was a waste of life, that I might as well just go overdose on drugs right then and there because that is what was going to happen to eventually anyway and that I was just a waste of life.

But God waited patiently for 43 years, slowly getting me to quit drugs and cut my hair. He gave me a wife and and children - which I didn’t deserve - and used them to teach me responsiblity. When my daughter died, God gave me a chance to turn to him but I wasn’t ready so he waited patiently some more while I continued in sin, until the departure of my wife finally broke me and I had no place to go but to God. And now here I am.

When I see “Cafateria Catholics”, I see myself. When I see lukewarm Catholics, or uncatechized Catholics, or Catholics who are addicted to sin or who recieve the Eucharist in a state of sin, I see myself. I try to remember that not long ago, I was exactly like them. I try to always remember that I don’t know God’s plan for anyone. He could have big plans for that cafateria Catholic, or that sinner, or that sex addict, or that guy who shows up at Mass in bermuda shorts and topsiders. I have no idea when that person is going to be converted or who I will see in heaven if I make it there.

That’s one of the reasons why I chose St. Augustin as my confirmation saint. God can use a broken tool, and he can convert anyone, and we really don’t know who or when it will happen. St. Augustine and I undersand that.

-Tim-
 
Maureen_Brilla said:
There is no such thing as “American Traditional Catholicism”
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Well, you must be missundestaning my question.
What I meant by “Traditional Catholicism” in this thread was the Catholicism of TLM. By American I meant a kind of Americanised version of it.
I know there exist Ukranian Catholicism, Lebanese Catholicism and so on, but not really an American Catholicism. Some of the Catholic Churches are, what I don’t really like, nearly national/ethnical Churches.
Anyway, if you watch TLM videos from USA there are sometimes an American flag near the altar (even though the flag may represent genocide, anti-catholicism and is not even a liturgical flag). look at this and you’ll understand youtube.com/watch?v=qrcMtl3qvq8
I also think that the American accents may have much to do with it also. You just don’t sound European even though you are Roman Catholics. Maybe the british/irish accents are more European. these two videos would be a good example youtube.com/watch?v=1ugrGnO4Q04 youtube.com/watch?v=8tG-WLXwuoI&feature=channel_video_title
 
henrikhank said:
Well, you must be missundestaning my question.
My dear henrikhank: Please accept my apologies for my rant…I did indeed misunderstand your question, and when I noticed that you are participating from Europe. Please excuse my intensity. :imsorry:

Personally, I hope that with the new translation of the liturgy that the less than reverent aspects injected into the Mass by less than traditional Priests and approved by less than traditional Bishops will reintroduce a level of unity to our practice of Catholicism. During the past 40 years, since Vatican II, there have been many misinterpretations of the changes that were to come about because of the counsel. There have been Masses in which the priest dressed as a clown, women pretending they were priests, the loss of the Tabernacle from the Altar and put in various locations in the Church…I live in an area with a Bishop who is so far from the Traditions of Rome that actually, anything goes. But he is himself going in July on his 75th birthday and all here with a love of the Truth are very excited and praying for someone who can bring this diocese back into conformity. So when I read “American Catholic”, an excuse given by many in this area, steam blows from both ears…I feel so sad that those of us who were taught properly during the 1950’s and early '60s by faithful nuns and priests just went along with the bandwagon and did nothing to stop this run away train.

May Our Lady guide you to her Blessed Son on a true and steady path as you make your journey of discernment. God Bless and Merry Christmas.
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As far as lifestyle in general goes… Due to our Puritan forefathers, you might say that American Catholics have more stern and Puritan influences. For example, while we are not necessarily afraid to drink alcohol, it still seems to carry a cultural stigma at times. Also, the ways in which we show affection for one another can be quite subdued, especially between males, due to cultural taboos.

But to be more on topic, the only way I can think to identify American Catholicism is “variety.” This is especially present, of course, in Novus Ordo churches, but I would think to an extent it may apply to TLMs as well. I only say this because I think the only way that America shows its own colors in many areas is simply through variety, since it does not have the long-standing traditions of many European countries. We may have been here for 230 years, but to me we’re still a mix (at least in the area where I live, which has only been settled for 100 years).
 
(Sorry for the double post… Can’t edit.)

In reference to my above post, I realize I used the term Novus Ordo wrongly. What I meant was the churches where the Ordinary Form of the Mass is most often said. My apologies. I attend one!
 
Hubertus, you’ve made me think of some other things that make American Catholicism “different.”
  • The vast majority of American Catholics don’t celebrate name days.
  • Outside of certain ethnic enclaves, American Catholics do not parade statues of saints in the street.
 
henrikhank said:
Laudetur Jesus Christus!
Does the “American Traditional Catholicism” exists? I mean, Traditional Catholicism with an American atitude. Well, from what I’ve seen it actually exists.
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Well, if you measure on the basis that two of the nine Supreme Court justices attend the EF, I guess you could say that. (It would have been three had Bork not been rejected for the judicial position.)
 
Thank you Henrihank for giving me a place to ask this question. 😛

A Polish practitioner told me that she is going to finish decorating her tree today and then she will turn on the lights on Christmas day.

So I asked her if she always waits for Christmas day and she told me that it is Catholic tradition, as in Universal Catholic tradition, because Christ has not come yet.

Is this American Catholic tradition as well??
 
TrueLight said:
So I asked her if she always waits for Christmas day and she told me that it is Catholic tradition, as in Universal Catholic tradition, because Christ has not come yet.

Is this American Catholic tradition as well??
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here in Sweden they say that decorating Julgranen/the Christmas tree is a practise that comes from the heathens. Anyway, I think that it isn’t a universal practise since the Vatican doesn’t wait until Christmas day.
 
henrikhank said:
here in Sweden they say that decorating Julgranen/the Christmas tree is a practise that comes from the heathens. Anyway, I think that it isn’t a universal practise since the Vatican doesn’t wait until Christmas day.
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Hmm.

When you’re new, all you can say is nod and smile because you have no idea if somethings are Catholic practice.
 
TrueLight said:
Hmm.

When you’re new, all you can say is nod and smile because you have no idea if somethings are Catholic practice.
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No such thing as American Traditional Catholicism, at least not in union with Rome.
American practices at mass exist however, and they tend to be stupid and superficial.
 
iloveangels said:
No such thing as American Traditional Catholicism, at least not in union with Rome.
American practices at mass exist however, and they tend to be stupid and superficial.
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Do you agree that the Christmas tree should not be lit until Christmas? Is that Catholic practice?

I know this same lady said that it is the custom in Poland that whenever a Catholic passes a Catholic church, if time permits, one goes into the church and spends a few minutes greeting our Lord, but when one is pressed for time, one just makes the sign of the cross.

I had never heard the part about entering the Church and praying for a few minutes every time one passes the church if time permits.

So that would be an example of a common practice in Poland, I guess. ProVobis can confirm.
 
TrueLight said:
Do you agree that the Christmas tree should not be lit until Christmas? Is that Catholic practice?
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No, not one way or another. I think that’s a family thing. Different families do it different ways.
 
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