Is there such a thing as "Baptism of the Holy Spirit"

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My understanding of Baptism is that there is one faith and one baptism. That is water Baptism. I know many charismatics use the term “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” and mean something by it that is different than water Baptism. It seems like if we talk of something other than water Baptism we are saying there is more than one type of Baptism.
And also, if we use the term “Baptism of the Holy Spirit”, are we not subjectively misusing the formula of Baptism in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit???

Comments Please

mdcpensive1
 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_with_the_Holy_Spirit

Maybe this will help clarify things. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is used more in the sense of baptism by Christians not particularly Catholics. We believe at the baptism of water, we receive the graces of the Holy Spirit which are completed at Confirmation.

This link gives the different perspectives of many Christian religions in regarding to this term of “baptism of the Holy Spirit.” Hope this helps.
 
stbruno said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_with_the_Holy_Spirit

Maybe this will help clarify things. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is used more in the sense of baptism by Christians not particularly Catholics. We believe at the baptism of water, we receive the graces of the Holy Spirit which are completed at Confirmation.

This link gives the different perspectives of many Christian religions in regarding to this term of “baptism of the Holy Spirit.” Hope this helps.
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Thanks for the reply.
I read some of the letters of Mother Nadine who is the head of the Intersessors of the Lamb in Bellweather NB. Her writings are very powerful and insiteful but even she uses the “Baptism in the Spirit” terminology. Before I attempt to engage someone as whether to use the term or not I have to know if it is a valid term or just a euphemism (for lack of a better word).

mdcpensive1
 
mdcpensive1 said:
My understanding of Baptism is that there is one faith and one baptism. That is water Baptism. I know many charismatics use the term “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” and mean something by it that is different than water Baptism. It seems like if we talk of something other than water Baptism we are saying there is more than one type of Baptism.
And also, if we use the term “Baptism of the Holy Spirit”, are we not subjectively misusing the formula of Baptism in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit???

Comments Please

mdcpensive1
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To further respond: this is rooted in the sacraments given by Christ when He said that a person must be reborn of the water AND the spirit or not have life in them.

To protestants, who lack the fulness of the seven sacraments, there is no sacrament of confirmation (where one is reborn fully into the church and is open to the full graces of the Holy Spirit) so they created a term to “meet the criteria.” This is, however, an extra-biblical concept.

The catholic church teaches there are three kinds of baptism (though you can only be baptised ONCE):
Baptism by water (most common)
Baptism by blood (exceedingly rare these days)
Baptism by desire (well defined, but we are unsure of how often it occurs, since we trust in the mercy of God for this one)

Then there is rebirth by the Spirit in the form of Confirmation.
 
Charismatics of almost all stripes believe that a second baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, is if not required, at least very much desired, in order to be a real Christian. When you get into their practices you will find that almost all of them will admit to asking for Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It is not biblical and is definitely not in Catholic theology at all. We receive the graces of the Holy Spirit through the Sacraments of the Catholic Church.
 
mdcpensive1 said:
Thanks for the reply.
I read some of the letters of Mother Nadine who is the head of the Intersessors of the Lamb in Bellweather NB. Her writings are very powerful and insiteful but even she uses the “Baptism in the Spirit” terminology. Before I attempt to engage someone as whether to use the term or not I have to know if it is a valid term or just a euphemism (for lack of a better word).

mdcpensive1
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I doubt Mother Nadine is using the language in the same way that pentecostals use it. We have had some of the brothers/sisters from her order come on our teen retreats for years and they did not strike me as charismatics in that sense. They obviously believe in gifts of the Holy Spirit in line with church teaching. I thought it fascinating that they have such an interesting charism working with youth and having hermits also.
 
palmas85 said:
Charismatics of almost all stripes believe that a second baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, is if not required, at least very much desired, in order to be a real Christian.
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Sorry to intrude, but this isn’t correct. Charismatics or Pentecostals do not believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is required to be a “real Christian” AT ALL. They believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience entirely from becoming a Christian.
 
cpayne said:
Sorry to intrude, but this isn’t correct. Charismatics or Pentecostals do not believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is required to be a “real Christian” AT ALL. They believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience entirely from becoming a Christian.
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nevermind, i was going to respond, but there’s not much point to it. My views on Charisms (true ones) and most charismatics are pretty clear.
 
promethius95945 said:
nevermind, i was going to respond, but there’s not much point to it. My views on Charisms (true ones) and most charismatics are pretty clear.
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Well, that’s all right; I’m not familiar with everyone here yet, but you seem reasonable. What are your views?

I think I understand (from your previous post in this thread) why you would not accept the idea of a separate “baptism of the Holy Spirit.” But what I was correcting was a misstatement of what charismatics / Pentecostals actually believe.
 
palmas85 said:
Charismatics of almost all stripes believe that a second baptism, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, is if not required, at least very much desired, in order to be a real Christian. When you get into their practices you will find that almost all of them will admit to asking for Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It is not biblical and is definitely not in Catholic theology at all. We receive the graces of the Holy Spirit through the Sacraments of the Catholic Church.
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The issue is not, within Catholic circles, that the graces of the Holy Spirit are or are not received through the sacraments - Catholic charismatics admit that they are and do so readily; it is the issue of the increase of the gifts of the Spirit, the primary gift being Charity, or Love.
 
otjm said:
Mr Likoudis is hardly the person I would suggest as an authority on the issue. Further, one might look to the writings of John Paul 2 for information.
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FWIW, the Pentecostalism article has an Imprimatur. Haven’t looked at the other one yet.
 
Actually is is biblical. all quotes are from the NRSV

Acts 1:4 "While staying with them, he ordered them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait therefor the promise of the Father. “This,” he said,“is what you have heard from me; for John baptized with water, but you will be** baptized with the Holy Spirit **not many days from now.”

Acts 2:1-14
When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly from heaven there came a sound like the rush of a violent wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. Divided tongues, as of fire, appeared among them, and a tongue rested on each of them. All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit gave them ability.

Acts11:15 -17 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as it had upon us at the beginning. And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said, “John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." If God gave them the same gift that he gave us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could hinder God?”

More
Acts 8:14 - 17 Now when the Apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. The two went down and prayed for them that they might **receive the Holy Spirit **(for as yet the Spirit had not come upon any of them, they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus). Then Peter and John laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

And again:

Acts 10:44-48
While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded the the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, for they had heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter said," Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have" So he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

It is quite definite that there are 2 Baptisms - one with water and one with the Spirit. Always has been.

Catholics hold that this Baptism of the Spirit occurs at the Sacrament of Confirmation, when the Bishop or his authorized delegate lays hands on the person and says “Be sealed with the Spirit”. Here are the relevant prayers. Note how the Bishop acknowledges their water baptism before asking that the Spirit be poured out on them and that they be gifted with the seven gifts of the Spirit.

diocese-sdiego.org/Handbook/Handbook_PDFs/Liturgy1.pdf
The Laying On of Hands with Prayer Before Anointing

The candidates remain standing for the laying on of hands.
The Bishop, addressing the assembly which remains seated, says:
My dear friends:
in baptism God our Father gave the new birth of eternal life to his chosen sons and daughters Let us pray to our Father that he will **pour out the Holy Spirit **to strengthen his sons and daughters with his gifts and anoint them to be more like Christ the Son of God.
After a moment of quiet prayer, the Bishop extends his hands over all the candidates who may bow their heads as the Bishop says:
All-powerful God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, by water and the Holy Spirit you freed you sons and daughters from sin
and gave them new life.
Send your Holy Spirit upon them to be their Helper and Guide.
Give them the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of right judgment and courage, the spirit of knowledge and reverence.
Fill them with the spirit of wonder and awe in you presence.
We ask this through Christ our Lord.
All: Amen.
The Anointing with Chrism
…]
The Bishop dips his right thumb into the chrism and laying his hand on the forehead of the
candidate makes the sign of the cross while saying:
N., BE SEALED WITH THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
The newly confirmed responds audibly: AMEN.
The Bishop says: PEACE BE WITH YOU.
The newly confirmed responds audibly: AND ALSO WITH YOU.
 
VociMike said:
FWIW, the Pentecostalism article has an Imprimatur. Haven’t looked at the other one yet.
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It has the Imprimatur, which I saw, and is about 30+ years out of date.

I have read other things he has written, and found him to be out on a limb and exceedingly editorial in his writing to the point of being inflamitory and bordering on hysteria; I prefer to have facts.

Further, the fact that something has an Imprimatur does not mean that it necessarily reflects the thinking of the Church, but rather that it does not have material that is against the faith. There is at times quite a gap between the two.

And having read things with an Imprimatur that appear to have slipped past the eyes of the one granting the Imprimatur, I don’t necessarily put a whole lot of credit on the granting.
 
promethius95945 said:
To further respond: this is rooted in the sacraments given by Christ when He said that a person must be reborn of the water AND the spirit or not have life in them.

To protestants, who lack the fulness of the seven sacraments, there is no sacrament of confirmation (where one is reborn fully into the church and is open to the full graces of the Holy Spirit) so they created a term to “meet the criteria.” This is, however, an extra-biblical concept.

The catholic church teaches there are three kinds of baptism (though you can only be baptised ONCE):
Baptism by water (most common)
Baptism by blood (exceedingly rare these days)
Baptism by desire (well defined, but we are unsure of how often it occurs, since we trust in the mercy of God for this one)

Then there is rebirth by the Spirit in the form of Confirmation.
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Thanks for the response, but I should have known that someone would talk about the water, blood and desire types which I was not asking about. This is my fault.
I am asking whether the term should be used “Baptism OF the Holy Spirit” in Catholic circles. There are other threads talking about “Baptism WITH the Holy Spirit”, but I am not asking about that.
It is the so called “Baptism” that is an emotional or sensory experience.
I know that it is not real Baptism, but is it a term that should even be used because of confusing the issue???

mdcpensive1
 
otjm said:
The issue is not, within Catholic circles, that the graces of the Holy Spirit are or are not received through the sacraments - Catholic charismatics admit that they are and do so readily; it is the issue of the increase of the gifts of the Spirit, the primary gift being Charity, or Love.
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I would certainly like to see in the Catechism where this concept is so stated as an accepted doctrine or even in the theology of the Church.
 
I’m positive that there must be something in the Churches teaching that supports the Charismatic view that the alleged baptism of the Holy Spirit or with the Holy Spirit or however they word it, separate from the sacraments, leads to an increase of grace. I am waiting for one of the Charismatic supporters here to point that out to me. I would love to read it.
 
I think whether the term is Baptism of/in/with the Holy Spirit, the same thing is meant. As Linda Marie said it is scriptural. Some Charismatics prefer to use the term Release of the Spirit to avoid confusion with Sacramental Baptism.

In scripture the coming of the Spirit that follows the imposition of hands has visible effects, and should do so today at Confirmation. But due to poor teaching and nil (not even low) expectations it would be very rare to see any evidence that a candidate had received anything, let alone a Pentecost experience.

So Charismatics often run “Life In The Spirit” seminars to prepare people for this experience to make up for what they lacked at Confirmation and to understand and be open to receiving and using the charisms of the Spirit.
 
steve99 said:
I think whether the term is Baptism of/in/with the Holy Spirit, the same thing is meant. As Linda Marie said it is scriptural. Some Charismatics prefer to use the term Release of the Spirit to avoid confusion with Sacramental Baptism.

In scripture the coming of the Spirit that follows the imposition of hands has visible effects, and should do so today at Confirmation. But due to poor teaching and nil (not even low) expectations it would be very rare to see any evidence that a candidate had received anything, let alone a Pentecost experience.

So Charismatics often run “Life In The Spirit” seminars to prepare people for this experience to make up for what they lacked at Confirmation and to understand and be open to receiving and using the charisms of the Spirit.
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Outstanding:thumbsup: , point me to the references in the Catechism that refer to this release of the Holy Spirit or the “making up” of what we lacked at Conformation.👍
 
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